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Fromsoft have literally made the best open world game on their first try, change my mind.


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15 minutes ago, phresh said:

 

Open worlds have to move beyond the constant need for 'rewards' though. I haven't played ER yet, but i'm just playing Cyberpunk and despite's it's systems being completely different to BotW they both just have a confidence that the world alone is sometimes reward enough. Even traversing the same areas from a different approach or viewpoint is enough sometimes.

 

The physics engine is pretty integral to what makes BotW unique, it thrives on creativity rather than optimisation, which is what other open world adventure games often rely on (just look at the number of weapon level posts in the last few pages*). The best stories i've heard about BotW have all been from friends taking direction from their kids while playing, where they embrace that far more than I ever could.

 

*Not a criticism of the game, I could spend all day re-speccing a character in DoS.

 

 

Cyberpunk is one of my fave games of all time. Night City is magical as a place I want to be in even if its just doing NCPD go here and shoot everyone gigs. 

 

The creativity in Zelda is there it just doesn't speak to me when that creativity is about finding a funny way to take out a settlement of goblins in a huge open barren area from one to the next. I felt some awe and discovery as I found certain parts of the map but when I entered by 20th or 30th shrine and broke my 20th sword on my 50th goblin I kinda missed Hyrule Field directing me towards a refined Zelda experience with a traditional unique dungeon in its own more numerous unique nodes of an area.

 

Like I said I know BOTW is a masterpiece for its creativity and freedom, it just doesn't hit the notes I find mostly compelling in adventure games. It's kinda sad for me tbh to not be in love with one of the most well loved videogames of all time. I do want to start it again but the idea of doing the first 15-20 hours again just kinda makes me go ugh and just want to shoot gonks in Night City instead which is far more of a static world in comparison. It is a very very dense and layered world though despite the fact that you can't do anything with it - funnily enough the polar opposite of BOTW which often has huge open horizons with plenty of bare space inbetween things but you can do a zillion different combos of things.

 

Likewise I'll see a castle or location in Elden Ring, get there and am just amazed at how structured and dense it is.

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19 minutes ago, phresh said:

 

Open worlds have to move beyond the constant need for 'rewards' though. I haven't played ER yet, but i'm just playing Cyberpunk and despite's it's systems being completely different to BotW they both just have a confidence that the world alone is sometimes reward enough. Even traversing the same areas from a different approach or viewpoint is enough sometimes.

 

The physics engine is pretty integral to what makes BotW unique, it thrives on creativity rather than optimisation, which is what other open world adventure games often rely on (just look at the number of weapon level posts in the last few pages*). The best stories i've heard about BotW have all been from friends taking direction from their kids while playing, where they embrace that far more than I ever could.

 

*Not a criticism of the game, I could spend all day re-speccing a character in DoS.

 

 

Yup. I feel BotW was made with the Minecraft-generation in mind, so to speak. It's much more a toy box than a D&D starter kit, which is fine in itself. Like GTA, it's a great world to mess around in, but the actual game part of it was at the lowest the franchise has ever been I feel. For me the very first Zelda was magical, and that magic was completely absent in BotW, but I found it in spades in ER.

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39 minutes ago, ZOK said:


No, and I don’t imagine I’ll ever get it. I can bet I’d love it but I actively avoid games that I think are going to drag me in these days.

How many hours have you put into BotW and Cyberpunk combined?!

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Instead of arguing about which is the ‘best’ , especially the pure nonsense of why one is worse because it doesn’t have all the things that are in the other one, I’m just happy that I’ve been able to play both BOTW and Elden Ring and enjoy each of them pretty much equally. 
 

Each of them show what the worlds best developers can do when at the top of their game and both games stand head and shoulders above almost everything else, especially in the open world genre. Each of them are very different to each other and that is exactly how it should be.
 

That said, despite putting dozens and dozens of hours into BOTW I never finished it, didn’t defeat all of the divine beasts, never even got into the castle but I still enjoyed every minute I played. I am doing as much random wandering in Elden Ring as I did in BOTW but do keep touching base with the critical path now and then as I am always wanting to see more. 
 

Very much looking forward to BOTW 2 as it’s been a while since the original and I’ve no doubt Nintendo will pull some real magic out the bag.

 

Meanwhile I am very, very happy fighting way across the Lands Between as it is the most beautiful and cohesive game world I’ve experienced.

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I really like them both. And Cyberpunk too. And Horizon/Tsushima/etc

 

I think ER/BoTW, as I’ve said before, are just too different. What they have in common is a world that feels simultaneously like it’s always existed, like a real thing that’s evolved, whilst also feeling like an impeccably designed space that frames your view and leads you unknowingly. I can’t really think of other open world games that do that. That aside I don’t think they have too much in common. 
 

For the record I would prob sit slightly on the Elden Ring side of the fence just because I find the minute to minute gameplay more rewarding*

 

* although I admit I hate it sometimes. 

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3 hours ago, SuperCapes said:

Most of these BotW > ER arguments are exactly the problem with BotW for me. 

 

I am aware, it is sometimes about the journey and not the destination, but what is the destination in BotW? What does the game reward the player with, that is not a Health/Stamina upgrade? What is unique about what you see, at the destination, or is there a unique challenge? 

 

The Shrines are great, but feel so bitesized I started to get fatigued after a bunch of them. Same with Elden Rings mini dungeons, I just stopped being interested. Many of those mini dungeons did contain valuable upgrade materials, and sometimes unique bosses at the very least, similar to the occasional weather dampening piece of gear in BotW. 

 

If BotW had medium and large dungeons, that had unique designs, and different enemy types per biome I would agree with it being brilliant. It would make me excited travelling between the different areas, and blown away at where the game took me. Dragon Roost Island style. But it didn't. The first 5-10 hours were magical, but after I arrived at my second Divine Beast I knew the game was going to feel all too familiar throughout. 

 

These are my opinions and I know others feel differently, but as someone who wants to be surprised as I progress, treated to fantastic level design, new enemies, spells, and more, BotW ended up feeling rather boring, and unrewarding. 

 

I just pray BotW 2 has some variety, outside of how you can travel about the open world. But above all else, they are vastly different games. Elden Ring just had me way more immersed, and excited to explore. 

 

This I how I feel about open world games in general, I think by opening up the entire world you substantially reduce the sense of a journey, and there is no game that had a better sense of a journey than Ocarina of Time. It helped i was the teenager when I played it and 3d was still kind of new and overwhelming, but starting as a little kid in this tiny village then moving across vast plains and literally growing up to become a man, it along with the dungeons is the reason that my view of it increases over time. I can't believe what Nintendo was able to put in the game.

 

Like how people rewatch their favourite films, I want to replay it every 5 years to remind myself what an achievement it was. It's the excitement of not knowing at all where a game will take you.

 

Resident Evil 4 had it as well, imagine if every area was instead connected from the beginning and you could just take each area in any order. The linearity allowed them to think of more precise inventive moments. Some games just get it all wrong though, it's less shaping an experience and more having some interactive cgi film.

 

I think Naughty Dog get it wrong, others probably disagree. Even though I love linear games because I want developers to surprise and for there to be a promise of the unexpected, the way they do it ends up being the opposite, not completely sure why. Less play inbetween I think, they don't maximise gameplay ideas, there's a predictable flow to their games. From earlier on too, I enjoyed Jak and Daxter but there was always this thought that it wasn't digging deeper at what it could be. 

 

...By opening up the entirety of the world from the beginning it takes away the journey. But people seem to prefer the empowerment of it. I think you need to emphasise where a player is in every stage of the game, starting you with no weapons in small environments is part of that. People will swear merely exploring an open space is a journey, but the amount of time the developer can put into each area is less. I love the Metroid thing of denying areas then you spending hours of the game wondering what's behind it as you walk past several times. That sense of unlocking the unknown, no other medium does that. 

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2 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

 

This I how I feel about open world games in general, I think by opening up the entire world you substantially reduce the sense of a journey, and there is no game that had a better sense of a journey than Ocarina of Time. It helped i was the teenager when I played it and 3d was still kind of new and overwhelming, but starting as a little kid in this tiny village then moving across vast plains and literally growing up to become a man, it along with the dungeons is the reason that my view of it increases over time. I can't believe what Nintendo was able to put in the game.

 

Like how people rewatch their favourite films, I want to replay it every 5 years to remind myself what an achievement it was. It's the excitement of not knowing at all where a game will take you.

 

Resident Evil 4 had it as well, imagine if every area was connected instead from the beginning and you could just take each area in any order. The linearity allowed the developer to think of more precise inventive moments. Some games just get it all wrong though, it's less shaping an experience and more having some interactive cgi film.

 

I think Naughty Dog get it wrong, others probably disagree. Even though I love linear games because I want developers to surprise and for there to be a promise of the unexpected, the way they do it ends up being the opposite, not completely sure why. Less play inbetween I think, they don't maximise gameplay ideas, there's a predictable flow to their games. From the beginning too, I enjoyed Jak and Daxter but there was always this thought that it wasn't digging deeper at what it could be. 

 

...By opening up the entirety of the world from the beginning it takes away the journey. But people seem to prefer the empowerment of it. I think you need to emphasise where a player is in every stage of the game, starting you with no weapons in small environments is part of that. People will swear merely exploring an open space is a journey, but the amount of time the developer can put into each area is less. I love the Metroid thing of denying areas then you spending hours of the game wondering what's behind it as you walk past several times. That sense of unlocking the unknown, no other medium does that. 

 

I agree, that is why I love RE2R (and most of them to be honest (Same as Metroid!)) so much. You start small, but it twists and turns on itself, and keeps you invested in the world. I am not saying open worlds don't, for many people they do, but for me, I like the feel of craftsmanship within a bespoke environment.

 

Give Elden Ring a go Loik. Honestly, it feels very unique in how it semi gates you with how the map is designed. It allows you to be gated if you want, but there are ways around almost everything. The game uses sight to such an advantage too. Look over every crevice, and around every corner. It may just surprise with where it takes you! 

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Don't worry mate, me personally not being over the moon about a game I've accepted is objectively incredible doesn't change the metacritic score, you're ok! Don't stress! 

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2 minutes ago, Uzi said:

Don't worry mate, me personally not being over the moon about a game I've accepted is objectively incredible doesn't change the metacritic score, you're ok! Don't stress! 


mate - it’s freaking me out!

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I loved BotW and would probably buy a Switch to play BotW2 on.

 

I think the triumph for Elden Ring is that it maintains the small moments of Dark Souls (finding loot tucked behind a statue, fiddling with your stats) despite the core Souls gameplay now existing in such a vast world. It's quite some trick they've pulled off to not make that all get lost in the biglyness. 

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2 minutes ago, scottcr said:


what a time to be alive! BOTW 2, Metroid Prime 4, FZero on switch AND Elden Ring. 

 

Even though I wasn't the biggest fan of BotW, as many can see and probably hate me for ha, I am excited to see what they bring in the sequel.

 

But aye, 2022 is going to be a special beast hopefully! Even Starfield, which I hope they nail! 

 

God of War Ragnarok too! 

 

I like to whinge about variety in games as much as I like eating Bourbon biscuits, but holy moly the variety in the gaming space is awesome. 

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2 hours ago, spanx said:

I really like them both. And Cyberpunk too. And Horizon/Tsushima/etc

 

I think ER/BoTW, as I’ve said before, are just too different. What they have in common is a world that feels simultaneously like it’s always existed, like a real thing that’s evolved, whilst also feeling like an impeccably designed space that frames your view and leads you unknowingly. I can’t really think of other open world games that do that. That aside I don’t think they have too much in common. 
 

For the record I would prob sit slightly on the Elden Ring side of the fence just because I find the minute to minute gameplay more rewarding*

 

* although I admit I hate it sometimes. 


This is an interesting view because the world in BOTW never felt like a real space at all to me. It felt like a really, really big videogame level in a way that no other open world game does, which is one of the things I really liked about it.
 

But it never felt like a place filled with life or history, any more than a level in a Mario game does. I didn’t care about Hyrule as a place, I just wanted to discover all the mechanics and find all the shrines.

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21 minutes ago, Flanders said:


This is an interesting view because the world in BOTW never felt like a real space at all to me. It felt like a really, really big videogame level in a way that no other open world game does, which is one of the things I really liked about it.
 

But it never felt like a place filled with life or history, any more than a level in a Mario game does. I didn’t care about Hyrule as a place, I just wanted to discover all the mechanics and find all the shrines.re

 

It's full of history... sounds like you never found Lon Lon Ranch :( or the ruins of the temples that were so resplendent in Skyward Sword.

 

There's a definite story telling in the world building of BOTW if you look for it.

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4 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

It's full of history... sounds like you never found Lon Lon Ranch :( or the ruins of the temples that were so resplendent in Skyward Sword.

 

There's a definite story telling in the world building of BOTW if you look for it.

 

Yeah, that was magical.

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58 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

I loved BotW and would probably buy a Switch to play BotW2 on.

 

I think the triumph for Elden Ring is that it maintains the small moments of Dark Souls (finding loot tucked behind a statue, fiddling with your stats) despite the core Souls gameplay now existing in such a vast world. It's quite some trick they've pulled off to not make that all get lost in the biglyness. 


That’s how I feel too. I was worried that Elden Ring would dilute what makes the Souls series incredible. I absolutely love BotW but felt Nintendo had to significantly limit the scope of dungeons in order to focus on the open world component, understandably you’d have to say.

 

What blows my mind about Elden Ring is they’ve somehow achieved both, a massive bespoke open world but filled with dungeons that are as good as if not better than anything in previous souls games. Stormveil alone comfortably rivals 1-1 or Undead Burg and that’s just Elden Ring getting going. 

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4 hours ago, Cyhwuhx said:

 

Yup. I feel BotW was made with the Minecraft-generation in mind, so to speak. It's much more a toy box than a D&D starter kit, which is fine in itself. Like GTA, it's a great world to mess around in, but the actual game part of it was at the lowest the franchise has ever been I feel. For me the very first Zelda was magical, and that magic was completely absent in BotW, but I found it in spades in ER.

 

For me, that's literally exactly why I found BOTW so compelling and reinvigorating for the franchise. It had that magic more than any other sequel. 

This is complete makes no sense to me, that someone would feel that way about the game. Also don't worry, you don't need to explain why. 

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Man I really should try BOTW again, I got half way through, did 2 divine beasts then felt burnt out. I didn't do any of the crazy stuff I've seen mentioned in this thread though, I feel like I wasn't imaginitive enough with the engine. But there's another one coming out possibly this year? Damn I'll no doubt be busy with Elden Ring for at least a year or two.  

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