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Fromsoft have literally made the best open world game on their first try, change my mind.


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1 hour ago, Anne Summers said:

Ok OP I will change your mind. 

From have not made the best open world game on their first try. 

Because their first open world game was, probably (?) King's Field. I don't know because I didn't ever play it but I think this is the case.

So unless KIng's Field is better than Skyrim and GTA 5 and WItcher 3 (dunno, it might be, I never played it) then your statement is wrong. 

 

Even Dark Souls is basically just as much of an open world game as Elden Ring, just considerably more compact. 

 

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Just now, the_debaser said:

It is absolutely nothing like OOT. What are you guys on about?

 

I said not quite, but it does share some level design principles. Mini bosses and big bads. Not to mention each main dungeon is bespoke. That is similar enough no?

 

Gameplay flow is very different ofcourse.

 

From Software games are clearly inspired by classic Japanese adventure games, there is no two ways about it. They have just done their own spin on things. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jonamok said:

This is basically a glorified crustacean battle simulator. Crabs, lobsters and fokkin prawns. What has Miyazaki got against shellfish?

 

Those messages

 

"Why is it always a Crab"

 

Needs a T-Shirt with that in the right font and MASSIVE ELDEN RING CRAB :D

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The most impressive part of the world design itself is the topology and the placement of buildings. Castles are positioned where you'd expect a castle to be in the real world. This isn't Assassin's Creed where you can saunter up to a castle wall, casually vault over and start looting and murdering. Here the moats are deep threatening ravines, the walls are impossible to scale and you won't find cheeky little broken bits of wall to crawl through. These are extremely heavily fortified and daunting strongholds with major bosses defending them. So as well as the navigational challenge there is also the matter of eliminating seriously tough defenders before you can even think about approaching the entrance.

 

I think this is the first time since Half Life 2 where the landscape and interiors actually feel natural and convincing. The placement of objects, whether they are enormous structures and monuments down to piles of books and household items, everything is perfectly judged and art directed. Clutter looks like real clutter. It's convincing and natural. Despite its size this doesn't feel like an algorithmically generated world. It has a meticulously hand-crafted quality and never feels like filler or generic world building. The lighting and volumetric effects only enhance this to make it feel like concept art or a matte painting come to life.

 

Weather effects like I've never experience before, like a deep murky opaque fog lifting to reveal a euphorically uplifting and bright sunrise. The natural erosion and age of the landscape as the coast leads down to a beach. The way flowers and plants feel as though they have organically grown. Everything comes together and feels natural.

 

Just a mindblowing experience.

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23 minutes ago, Uzi said:

Yeah there are no traditional style block or hit this with your bow arrow style puzzles. The true and incredibly satisfying puzzles are when you are in an environment or a legacy dungeon and you see a place or item you want to get to and you try and figure out, "how do i get there". It is way more enticing that some stupid videogamey shit. It's active exploration and thinking around that that is rewarded. 


And when you get to that tempting loot, even if it is hours or days later, it feels so good!
 

Speaking of which I have still not gotten to that body and loot hanging over a ledge at the back of the cave right at the beginning of the game. And have searched hard for the way up there…

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35 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

As an open world newb, and sorry in advance if by asking and you replying you feel your time is wasted, what is it about Elden Ring that jumps to another level? 

 

I've never played a Souls game, I'm too lazy to hack and slash and feel like that's going to be an obstacle to getting much from them when they demand so much effort from you. The atmosphere and exploration appeals though. I loved the Lord of The Rings films, so it feels like it captures some of that. Like entering the lair of a giant spider really appeals, if there's anything like that. 

 

But the best thing about Ocarina of Time for me was the dungeons, being lost in these spaces with puzzles and indiana jones style booby traps, that sense of being trapped and moving through spaces that change as you interact with them, they're spooky and moody and mysterious and you don't know where they will lead you. Does Souls or Elden Ring have any of that? Nintendo seemed to tap into that better than anyone but since Ocarina they've been less interested in it. Dungeons with several layers that unfold, not just spaces with generic puzzles in them. 

Dude you should definitely play Elden Ring based on this post alone.   It doesn't have 'puzzles' like OoT, but boy oh boy does it have that feeling of adventure, of getting lost, of not really knowing what the fuck is going on in this weird world.  

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I think instead of trying to explain why you think you won't like just play the damn thing.

 

From the posts here you can see its something special - no game will appeal to everyone but for those for whom this works it is fucking spectacular and a videogaming life changing experience.

 

Its OK not to like it but honestly, as I'm sure you can see by not trying it you're potentially missing something earth shatteringly special.

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7 minutes ago, Mike S said:


And when you get to that tempting loot, even if it is hours or days later, it feels so good!
 

Speaking of which I have still not gotten to that body and loot hanging over a ledge at the back of the cave right at the beginning of the game. And have searched hard for the way up there…

 

It's not as hard to as you might think. You gotta go out to get in...

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Just now, Davros sock drawer said:

 

It's not as hard to as you might think. You gotta go out to get in...


 

I’ll have another peep. I did look all around the back for a cave entrance or suchlike but no joy.

 

Added to my infinite list of things to follow up on…

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19 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

 

I said not quite, but it does share some level design principles. Mini bosses and big bads. Not to mention each main dungeon is bespoke. That is similar enough no?

 

Gameplay flow is very different ofcourse.

 

From Software games are clearly inspired by classic Japanese adventure games, there is no two ways about it. They have just done their own spin on things. 

 

 


Well if I went in expecting something like OOT then I’d be sorely disappointed. May as well say it’s like animal crossing because you pluck vegetation in both. 

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6 minutes ago, the_debaser said:


Well if I went in expecting something like OOT then I’d be sorely disappointed. May as well say it’s like animal crossing because you pluck vegetation in both. 

 

If you went into a game expecting something, without doing research outside of some comments, it would ruin your day would it? Good grief. 

 

Lighten up. If you disagree the way dungeons are laid out, then so be it. It is clear as day the level design and sensation of exploration is inspired. Even if you are not messing around blocks and keys. Biomes too.

 

My points are blanket statements but if you read through these posts and elsewhere you can get a feel for what it is. You are just looking for an argument as per.

 

Hadn't really thought about it being like Animal Crossing though so thanks! Will tell my friends that like it, to pick Elden Ring up! 

 

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13 minutes ago, the_debaser said:


Well if I went in expecting something like OOT then I’d be sorely disappointed. May as well say it’s like animal crossing because you pluck vegetation in both. 

 

You're starting to sound like your being deliberately contrary and snide. Its like a very light form of trolling.

 

[debaser]You might as well say its like Castlevania because there's whips you can pick up and use against zombies[/debaser]

 

Hey do you what? I might have a point. Its essentially a dark, gothic, massive openworld metroidvana. :D

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Kirby said:

 

You're starting to sound like your being deliberately contrary and snide. Its like a very light form of trolling.

 

[debaser]You might as well say its like Castlevania because there's whips you can pick up and use against zombies[/debaser]

 

Hey do you what? I might have a point. Its essentially a dark, gothic, massive openworld metroidvana. :D

 

 

 

...starting?!...

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The trick to being a contrarian is to have fun with it. Going against the grain is fine as long as you offer up interesting, sometimes unexpected insight with no little wit and a firm grasp of the subject at hand. Not bore the teats off us all with mind-numbing tedium that suggests little other than you haven’t the faintest idea about what you’re talking about.

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Just now, Danster said:

You are all bastards and owe me £50... 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I downloaded the PS4 version to play on PS5, was this right?

 

 

Hahaha the PS4 one certainly performs better :) 

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1 hour ago, Uzi said:

Elden Ring is a lack of compromise. Usually you throw a game in a large open world where you can go off in any direction and make discoveries and it makes compromises to make that format work. Funnily enough BOTW did this with the biggest example being the lack of legacy dungeons and instead having good gameplay wise, but meh discovery wise shrines. That was the compromise they needed to make BOTW work, they couldn't have every shrine be like a zelda style dungeon in that design. 

 

Every single dungeon here isn't a legacy dungeon. Zelda had those too - they were the Devine Beasts. They were evolved because everyone said they missed big spatial puzzles rather than room based puzzles but they are the way they are because of design choice.

 

The shrines are Nintendo's answer to "What makes this world enticing to explore?". Bespoke Zelda puzzles are more work than Souls combat, however well designed and placed.

 

I'd also be careful of "this is so much more accessible". It's Souls combat. If you hate it you will absolutely hate Elden Ring. You are just less likely to bounce straight off it here.

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32 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

In terms of the feeling I get when running about outside, the open world I'm most reminded of in this is (and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet)...

 

Xenoblade Chronicles!

 

Another one is Dragons Dogma, I get some serious DD vibes from this. I do wonder if the DD2 team, assuming it's being made, have looked at this and gone, oh shit.

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6 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

Every single dungeon here isn't a legacy dungeon. Zelda had those too - they were the Devine Beasts. They were evolved because everyone said they missed big spatial puzzles rather than room based puzzles but they are the way they are because of design choice.

 

The shrines are Nintendo's answer to "What makes this world enticing to explore?". Bespoke Zelda puzzles are more work than Souls combat, however well designed and placed.

 

I'd also be careful of "this is so much more accessible". It's Souls combat. If you hate it you will absolutely hate Elden Ring. You are just less likely to bounce straight off it here.

Nah there is nothing on scale like the capital or stormveil type locations. They're immense. And there are plenty of optional areas in Elden Ring that are suitably huge. Zelda BOTW was certainly not a legacy dungeon game compared to its predecessors even counting the divine beasts. And zelda puzzles as good as they are, are still puzzles you need to solve in a certain traditional videogamey way. Get the ball into a hole into a dungeon using motion controls etc. What I'm referencing and enjoying is just figuring out my journey. Where to go next, what to explore, how to get there. All completely organic.

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1 hour ago, Uzi said:

Nah there is nothing on scale like the capital or stormveil type locations. They're immense. And there are plenty of optional areas in Elden Ring that are suitably huge. Zelda BOTW was certainly not a legacy dungeon game compared to its predecessors even counting the divine beasts. And zelda puzzles as good as they are, are still puzzles you need to solve in a certain traditional videogamey way. Get the ball into a hole into a dungeon using motion controls etc. What I'm referencing and enjoying is just figuring out my journey. Where to go next, what to explore, how to get there. All completely organic.

 

There's nothing the size of Stormveil in other Zelda games either and a traditional dungeon of that size would not be fun either.

 

My point is that the Divine Beast weren't because Nintendo could have had traditional dungeons built into the world. They'll probably do it for BOTW2. It was a design choice.

 

Zelda has always been a mix of open exploration and structured gameplay right from the very first one. Souls does not have the same sort of puzzle gameplay. There's a little light puzzling but nothing on the scale. That has knock on consequences for the design of the game.

 

1 hour ago, joemul said:

and much, much smaller

 

BOTW is already massive and would not be improved by trebling the size of the map.

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Talking of games it reminds you of, I get strong Ueda vibes in a lot of places in this. Lots of Shadow of the Colossus influences especially. You can tell how much those games influenced Miyazaki. He's said so himself. He's also mentioned how he loved to read western fantasy books, written in English, I think? Said his rough grasp of English allowed him to get the overall story but that he needed to fill in some parts with his imagination.

 

I deffo think that the piecemeal and obtuse way (good though they may be) his games tell their world's stories is a throwback to the way he encountered those books.

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It's a good example of taking inspiration from a lot of sources and making something wholly unique with the feelings those influences provided. Which is in stark contrast to the general trend of "oh we like X game, we know you like X game, so we made it like X. Also all our cultural influences are only from playing games. What's a book?"

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On 13/03/2022 at 12:51, BitterToad said:

Elden Ring gives you the best combat system in any game ever

 

This would be true if Elden Ring was the only game you've ever played.

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