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Fromsoft have literally made the best open world game on their first try, change my mind.


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1 hour ago, Uzi said:

Nah there is nothing on scale like the capital or stormveil type locations. They're immense. And there are plenty of optional areas in Elden Ring that are suitably huge. Zelda BOTW was certainly not a legacy dungeon game compared to its predecessors even counting the divine beasts. And zelda puzzles as good as they are, are still puzzles you need to solve in a certain traditional videogamey way. Get the ball into a hole into a dungeon using motion controls etc. What I'm referencing and enjoying is just figuring out my journey. Where to go next, what to explore, how to get there. All completely organic.

Botw Gannon castle is closest to Stormveil. Loads of entrances, routes, loot in a maze like structure finishing at a boss.

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48 minutes ago, Benny said:

It's a good example of taking inspiration from a lot of sources and making something wholly unique with the feelings those influences provided. Which is in stark contrast to the general trend of "oh we like X game, we know you like X game, so we made it like X. Also all our cultural influences are only from playing games. What's a book?"

 

Exactly why all the "Souls-like" games I've played were such poor imitations. They had none of the deep-rooted influences that Miyazaki's originals were shaped by, such as the experiences that @amcmentioned. Yes you can make an ultra-hard game set in a sci-fi or medieval world with tough bosses and unforgiving mechanics. But without the lifetime of culture filtered in the very specific way that Miyazaki experienced, those copy games just don't have the subtlety, depth or artistry of the originals. The story about the cars being stuck in the snow is my favourite example, how he translated that into a gameplay mechanic was so inspired and original. The unofficial "Souls Like" games just don't bring anything meaningful like that to the table.

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12 minutes ago, therearerules said:

Botw Gannon castle is closest to Stormveil. Loads of entrances, routes, loot in a maze like structure finishing at a boss.

 

and, you could enter it from *anywhere*.  Some great sneaky ways of getting into the castle - also, if we're going to give 'souls' like comparisons.  At the start, you're very underpowered and vulnerable - quite often you'll run into the castle to smash and grab and nope out with some nice loot... by the end, you're strolling all the way up to the top confidently. 

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31 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

and, you could enter it from *anywhere*.  Some great sneaky ways of getting into the castle - also, if we're going to give 'souls' like comparisons.  At the start, you're very underpowered and vulnerable - quite often you'll run into the castle to smash and grab and nope out with some nice loot... by the end, you're strolling all the way up to the top confidently. 

Yeah castle Ganon was amazing, best part of the whole game.  That music!!  Elden Ring feels much more like a game with many castle Ganons!! 

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Elden Ring just nudges ahead of BotW for me, however, if BotW 2 has proper dungeons and decent rewards from chests it might just pull back first place. Basically an eternal struggle between these two games innovating on each other can only be a good thing.

 

I think the NPC's in Elden Ring are a bit lacking, there's no Siegmeyer, Solaire or Eileen, a few I like but most are forgettable. 

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Arguing about BotW vs Elden Ring is insanity. They are GOATS, but they are barely similar as games. 
 

I don’t think they are linked together for being open world. I think they are linked together for magically managing to be both games and places. 
 

Lots of games can be graphically better but few pull of the master stroke of the being a world you can invest your imagination in. 

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1 minute ago, Sumire said:

It should have breakable weapons after a few hits like BotW then it would be even more bettererer!

 

Genuinely, yes. I am shocked From have never done it. Earlier games had weapon degradation but it was a nuisance and not a factor.

 

I'm now on my fourth? fifth? game with a big ole sword the size of me smashing away. I would benefit from being pushed outside of my comfort zone. All Souls games are falling down with weapons of all sorts.

 

At a minimum, it'd be a very interesting remix mode.

 

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1 hour ago, Blunted said:

 

Use a different weapon then.

 

This kind of thinking is the death nell of game design, all possible feedback is that people simply don't. There are so, so, so many games  people would love if they played on Hard, or in different ways, but humans have evolved to take the easy path.  Game design has to really push people to have fun, rather than do something boring and easy.

 

People moan about the weapon breaking in Zelda, but if it wasn't there, they would moan the repetitive combat as they stuck with what worked. It's a fantastic, radical design choice.


I think I disagree that FS should copy it though. The weapons all have such depth in their move sets. It's always fun when an area requires a weapon switch though.

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3 minutes ago, LaveDisco said:

This kind of thinking is the death nell of game design, all possible feedback is that people simply don't.

 

Knell.

 

I don't really follow though, what is the death knell of game design? Players not having the will power to try a different weapon?

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2 hours ago, Blunted said:

 

Use a different weapon then.

I've just beaten a boss whose weapon I wanted to try out, and in the process of looking at it was perusing through some others that I'd picked up without a glance.

 

I am now wielding a massive curved blade 

Spoiler

Fang something

and suddenly the game feels brand new again.

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2 hours ago, LaveDisco said:

People moan about the weapon breaking in Zelda, but if it wasn't there, they would moan the repetitive combat as they stuck with what worked. It's a fantastic, radical design choice.

I'd agree with this if the combat in BotW was actually any good, or if the weapons were actually that different to each other.  Or there were puzzle enemies that required certain wepaons, etc. 

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2 hours ago, Jolly said:

I didn't care for Breath of the Wild half as much as most, but do think it's a bit harsh to compare it to Elden Ring as if one of them isn't five years old. There's a good chance that Elden Ring is as good as it is because of Breath of the Wild. 

This is undoubtedly true! 

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5 hours ago, Blunted said:

 

Use a different weapon then.

 

I love love love twatting things with my Zweihander. Or my slightly too short troll sword that appears to have the DS1 Colossal Sword moveset. First time through, why wouldn't I play with the way that makes me happiest?

 

This game is literally too large for me to do twice. I did a few variations in DS1 and DS2 but I just don't have the time anymore. The game has to design it in if it's wants me to do it.

 

And I've just had to spend a few hours farming to get my new giant sword up to be a usable option at this point in the game. I'm not doing it again for several different options. From just haven't designed even trialling new weapons to be easy.

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I didnt like what I  played of Breath of the Wild. I fucking love Elden Ring. And I couldn't get on with previous souls games after numerous attempts. 

 

This proves to me this game is up there with the best of them.

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8 hours ago, kensei said:

 

I love love love twatting things with my Zweihander. Or my slightly too short troll sword that appears to have the DS1 Colossal Sword moveset. First time through, why wouldn't I play with the way that makes me happiest?

 

This game is literally too large for me to do twice. I did a few variations in DS1 and DS2 but I just don't have the time anymore. The game has to design it in if it's wants me to do it.

 

And I've just had to spend a few hours farming to get my new giant sword up to be a usable option at this point in the game. I'm not doing it again for several different options. From just haven't designed even trialling new weapons to be easy.


It’s very easy to trial new weapons. The easiest it has ever been, in fact. You can respec to suit weapons. You can go to low level zones and grind for runes and stones to level them almost danger free. Heck, you can even buy the stones from a vendor! Your issue is that you don’t have or don’t want to spend the time doing it and that’s not a From problem - they’re just asking you to play the game - that’s a you problem. Which is totally fine if you’ve not got the time or inclination, but it’s not the games fault. 

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You can almost make the argument that Elden Ring is objectively better, because it’s the same game but with loads of proper dungeons. Which BOTW sorely missed. 

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3 minutes ago, Moz said:

You can almost make the argument that Elden Ring is objectively better, because it’s the same game but with loads of proper dungeons. Which BOTW sorely missed. 

That doesn't mean it is "objectively" better.

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1 hour ago, Doctor Shark said:


It’s very easy to trial new weapons. The easiest it has ever been, in fact. You can respec to suit weapons. You can go to low level zones and grind for runes and stones to level them almost danger free. Heck, you can even buy the stones from a vendor! Your issue is that you don’t have or don’t want to spend the time doing it and that’s not a From problem - they’re just asking you to play the game - that’s a you problem. Which is totally fine if you’ve not got the time or inclination, but it’s not the games fault. 

 

It was much easier in Dark Souls. There were several areas you could grind the necessary stones quickly, you could break down bigger stones to small ones and you didn't need something like 96 stones to get a max weapon.

 

It is the games fault. First making it hugely time consuming a design choice. But From have dicked about with weapon upgrades systems and never got it right IMO. At least this is not Demon's million stone low percentage farming nightmare. But it's not balanced well gating difficulty vs allowing experimentation. A fully powered weapon takes about 100 stones and an insane number of souls. I don't know why they didn't just use the somber system for everything. The backup weapon I do have is a somber one.

 

Anyway the point is "I think a mode where weapons broke like BOTW would be interesting and give a survival horror twist" is all I'm saying. Rather than just NG+ there's definite potential for remix modes that would change up the game significantly. 

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45 minutes ago, Moz said:

You can almost make the argument that Elden Ring is objectively better, because it’s the same game but with loads of proper dungeons. Which BOTW sorely missed. 

 

The loads of "proper dungeons" are not like Zelda dungeons. There's the odd very light puzzle, usually environmental. I think it's an apples to pears comparison.

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