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AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 2.0


mushashi
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The developer of the useful performance monitoring tool, CapFrameX mentioned on his Twitter a few days ago that he has seen the upcoming revised AMD FSR in action and it's supposedly very good now. AMD also happen to be giving a talk at GDC soon called "Next-Generation Image Upscaling for Games" which is likely to be the public reveal for it.

 

https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status/1502375332829188097

 

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So even if Intel's XeSS doesn't prove that useful for older GPUs, AMD's FSR should be more helpful going forward.

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Just now, Alex W. said:

I think the fact that AMD is still beating this drum means we can write off any prospect of good AMD AI hardware in the next five years.

I suspect they are trying to lead the narrative as Intel are about to launch their own GPU's that also offer ML acceleration and AI based upscaling. Intel's solution can also be used on other vendors hardware, it'll run worse on AMD's GPU's though as their ML performance is lacking compared to the competition.

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haha, ill believe it when i see it! after all, AMD tried to claim about how amazing FSR was,...when its highest quality setting is worse than nvidias performance DLSS option.

 

 

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1 hour ago, layten said:

AMD's quite poor response to Nvidia's AI based upscaling tech (DLSS).

 

It both is and isn't. It's crap compared to DLSS but it's a useful thing, especially in the context of Steamdeck, where developers don't have to do a thing to support it. It was the comparative marketing efforts that were the issue and AMD's lack of an actual competitor to DLSS.

 

FSR2 might be worse than FSR1 in a couple of respects, in  that devs probably need to be using TAA already and invest more effort in supporting it.

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3 hours ago, layten said:

lol

 

 

 

UE5's temporal upscale solution is considered to be good and that doesn't use AI either. We'll find out if his impression of it is shared by other people in a few weeks time.

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Thing is DLSS and Nvidia's solution being amazing is lovely and all but for the vast majority of the gaming market it doesn't matter... Because Nvidia have yet to produce many GPUs for the console market. And Steam Deck continues that trend.

 

AMD's solution/algorithm is going to be the defacto upscaling solution in game for the years to come isn't it? Not sure I see any moves that imply Nvidia sees a reason to try to change that.

 

Maybe Nintendo is in a good place if they could get Nvidia to make an updated platform from Switch with full DLSS support. But seems unlikely.

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The trouble is it’s redundant. It solves a problem their software customers are already working on, and doesn’t solve the huge technology gap they have as a hardware designer. I guess it gives them a box-tick comparison point for DLSS in the PC space, but image reconstruction has been a fixation for Sony since the PS4 Pro, and as mentioned UE5 is going to offer its own equivalent.

 

It’s a really weird fight for them to pick.

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18 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

AMD's solution/algorithm is going to be the defacto upscaling solution in game for the years to come isn't it? Not sure I see any moves that imply Nvidia sees a reason to try to change that.

Nvidia's solution will always have plenty of traction in the PC space as Nvidia actually put the effort into working with developers unlike AMD.

 

People have been giving it the old 'AMD are in the consoles so they win by default' ever since the PS4 and Bone launched, still waiting for it to happen.

 

18 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

Maybe Nintendo is in a good place if they could get Nvidia to make an updated platform from Switch with full DLSS support. But seems unlikely.

This exact thing was found in the recent leak of Nvidia data.

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40 minutes ago, layten said:

Nvidia's solution will always have plenty of traction in the PC space as Nvidia actually put the effort into working with developers unlike AMD.

 

People have been giving it the old 'AMD are in the consoles so they win by default' ever since the PS4 and Bone launched, still waiting for it to happen.

 

Of course. Nvidia have PC sewn up.

 

Never said AMD win, just that a direct comparison between the two is only so useful (outside of the PC space as per above). I guess we're just where we were when the new consoles came out. They had poorer upscaling solutions and it doesn't look like that can/will change this or maybe even next gen unless they switch to Nvidia or AMD catch up.

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17 hours ago, Alex W. said:

The trouble is it’s redundant. It solves a problem their software customers are already working on, and doesn’t solve the huge technology gap they have as a hardware designer. I guess it gives them a box-tick comparison point for DLSS in the PC space, but image reconstruction has been a fixation for Sony since the PS4 Pro, and as mentioned UE5 is going to offer its own equivalent.

 

It’s a really weird fight for them to pick.

It could be great for their APUs. The new RDNA 2 APUs already seem like a massive jump over their Vega offerings. If this is good enough to let them render a game at 900p but make it look like 1080p then that jump gets even bigger. 

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13 hours ago, Alex W. said:

Doesn’t it give nVidia’s the same boost?


it would, except nvidia don’t make APUs.

Your point about software developers already having better solutions is the key one though. This is targeting a niche.

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On 13/03/2022 at 21:49, Alex W. said:

The trouble is it’s redundant. It solves a problem their software customers are already working on, and doesn’t solve the huge technology gap they have as a hardware designer. I guess it gives them a box-tick comparison point for DLSS in the PC space, but image reconstruction has been a fixation for Sony since the PS4 Pro, and as mentioned UE5 is going to offer its own equivalent.

 

It’s a really weird fight for them to pick.

 

Competent image upscaling on PC, the primary target market for FSR, isn't by any stretch of the imagination universally supported by software developers, who either don't have the resources or skillset to implement and maintain such a thing.

 

Their hardware didn't have a solution so they've invented one for it, and as it is open-source (assumption based on FSR 1.0 and the other FidelityFX software suite being so) and doesn't rely on IHV-specific instructions or hardware to run, plenty of developers can now choose to implement it in their specific games, like Arkane Lyon have just done to support the widest range of potential customers for their games, rather than just some small subset.

 

I don't see anything weird about their choice to implement a universal upscaling solution at all, it's most definitely required.

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Well they do kind of deserve to dominate the market. They have a substantial lead in the forward looking technologies and significantly more resources devoted to driver support.

 

AMD have woeful RT

 

Intel have unproven RT and suspect driver support, which Xe isn't exactly giving much confidence will change very quickly. Good luck eating into NV's lunch in data centres. Intel have fallen so hard that even AMD are almost considered as valuable as them now.

 

But at the same time, Nvidia are a bunch of ruthless c*nts so somebody probably does need to cockblock them a bit from gaining even more marketshare.

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1 hour ago, TehStu said:

This is bad.

 

True generally.

 

But to be fair they simply keep building a better product than their competitors.

 

This isn't a case of others being blocked from competing or struggling to get contracts due to dodgy deals. It's AMD who have worked hard to have many big name partnerships (i.e. powering all recent consoles - excluding the somewhat edge case Switch). It's Intel and AMD who surely could have used their position on CPUs and motherboards.to.try to take a little more control, or at least see what was coming.

 

The others simply dropped the ball for YEARS. Not just the last generation of cards but many many generations. AMD have just about stayed relevant because of PC games scaling well across many different specs and power levels. But they've not really been pushing the envelope like Nvidia.

 

Nvidia have, to their credit, invested heavily in research that has paid off. It has built them a commanding collection of IP that means, in this case, that their upscaling is miles ahead, and in future likely other ML/AI based features will also be their strengths.

 

But then this is the PC market. If someone else builds something as or better then the gamers can and will jump ship. No lock in here.

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Sure, I swung back and forth Intel/AMD for years. And nVidia/ATI, come to think of it. No matter how much money nVidia have poured into R&D though, you're going to be paying top dollar for their stuff if no one else makes them do otherwise. Great and not great for consumers. I was browsing a general PC shop this last week and saw 3080TIs kicking around the $1,800 mark. It's probably because I haven't built a PC since the E6400 Core 2 Duo was new that this seems quite ridiculous to me :)

 

All good though, will be putting together something at some point, the kids are demanding something that looks like it belongs on the set of Blade Runner.

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On 20/03/2022 at 16:52, thesnwmn said:

This isn't a case of others being blocked from competing or struggling to get contracts due to dodgy deals.

 

*cough*

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12716/nvidia-terminates-geforce-partner-program

 

NV have attempted in the past to smother the competition unfairly, the only reason this was stopped was because some journalists dug out the dirt on it and there was a major backlash.

 

All 3 hardware vendors will do exclusivity deals to push their products, but that's part of the game.

 

 

Anyway, it's looking like the reason AMD leaked this early is because they actually have something that's going to make people eat crowpie and the fact they've already integrated it into at least one console's XGDK means some people at least will suddenly think it's the greatest thing since the last greatest thing.

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