Did you give up on Elden Ring?

[Talk Show Host]

On 21/04/2022 at 22:48, JPL said:

It’s probably the most stunning game world ever created.

 

If there is something that is making me question this game more than other from software titles is this kind of hyperbole. 

 

Good game, I am having a fun time with it, but nowhere near as revolutionary for open world games as people would like to think imo.

[Petrousgyre]

1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

If there is something that is making me question this game more than other from software titles is this kind of hyperbole. 

 

Good game, I am having a fun time with it, but nowhere near as revolutionary for open world games as people would like to think imo.

I’m not sure I’ve heard ’revolutionary’ bandied around much. It’s a BotW inspired open world Souls game - two well known quantities so there’s nothing massively surprising or radically new. What it is, though, is incredibly well put together and executed. 

[jonamok]

1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

If there is something that is making me question this game more than other from software titles is this kind of hyperbole. 

Why is it hyperbole? It’s a truly stunning game world. Care to name a better one?

[Minion]

Let me guess, The Witcher 3 🥱

[Talk Show Host]

7 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

I’m not sure I’ve heard ’revolutionary’ bandied around much. It’s a BotW inspired open world Souls game - two well known quantities so there’s nothing massively surprising or radically new. What it is, though, is incredibly well put together and executed. 

 

I have read plenty about how it changes open world games. I am suprised that you haven't.

 

 

7 hours ago, jonamok said:

Why is it hyperbole? It’s a truly stunning game world. Care to name a better one?

 

It is a stunning game world but not the most stunning game world ever created. RDR2 or W3 are more impressive in my opinion. Also, it depends on what you mean as well. Elden Ring doesn't have to follow any rules that make sense in an inhabited open world. It doesn't have to include cities, NPCs and NPCs behaviour, random animal behaviours, extended quest lines, interaction with other NPCs, etc. It is just a playground where every place tries to outdo the previous one. If all the areas were just different lands seperated by a load screen there wouldn't be much difference. 

 

As I said, trully impressive game, but other than its world beating art, its open world is really nothing special as an achievement.

[Exit Chamber]

11 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

If all the areas were just different lands seperated by a load screen there wouldn't be much difference. 

 

How does this specifically not apply to your two examples of RDR2 or W3?

[Talk Show Host]

8 minutes ago, Blunted said:

 

How does this specifically not apply to your two examples of RDR2 or W3?

 

Maybe it does apply, but I believe because these games have been built to offer an inhabited open world which is more unified and where everything feels part of the land and connected, it would do the games a huge disservice if you had loading screens. But technically it could apply to them as well. In Elden Ring I wouldn't mind loading screens so much. I would mind it though if there was a "please wait for loading" in the middle of Novigrad.

 

Maybe I am off topic because I haven't given up on Elden Ring, I am having a great time even though I am quite shit at it. 😅

[Jamie John]

50 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

Don't Believe the Hype

 

Signature checks out 

 

I agree that the game world isn't revolutionary, but what it does better than any other open world game I've played (except BoTW) is make clever use of sightlines, landscape and geometry to lead the player to interesting things without the use of quest markers. Too often when I'm playing open world games I don't even bother to pay attention to the landscape I'm traversing - it's just something that's in the way between me and my next destination - whereas in Elden Ring you're all but forced to observe the terrain and plan out your route, lest your way is obstructed by a sheer cliff, impassable mountain or massive horrible monster. At times while playing it I was reminded of Death Stranding in this regard, but here the combat is 100 times more fun.

[Talk Show Host]

2 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

 

Signature checks out 

 

I agree that the game world isn't revolutionary, but what it does better than any other open world game I've played (except BoTW) is make clever use of sightlines, landscape and geometry to lead the player to interesting things without the use of quest markers. Too often when I'm playing open world games I don't even bother to pay attention to the landscape I'm traversing - it's just something that's in the way between me and my next destination - whereas in Elden Ring you're all but forced to observe the terrain and plan out your route, lest your way is obscured by a sheer cliff, impassable mountain or massive horrible monster. At times while playing it I was reminded of Death Stranding in this regard, but here the combat is 100 times more fun.

 

Yes, but that works exactly because it is not built as a proper inhabited open world but as a playground. Games like RDR2 and W3 are way more complex and use of landmarks would not be enough to find all the little villages and other places because nature would get in the way, as it does in real life. You would actually need a real map or spend so much time in them as to learn the land as a proper living person there. 😅

 

I do agree though that if Elden Rings brings something new to the table and open world games is the less hand holding. We do not need as much or we should certainly have the options to tailor the experience as we would like. But that is not a simple matter of settings, design would have to support that. That is why I was looking at my screen in disbelief when an AC designer said that you can turn everything off in AC games as well.

 

Sure, but then you wouldn't be able to play the game because it is not designed to be played like this.

[Qazimod]

Elden Ring is Crackdown - go and find the bosses and kill them in the order you like, to an extent.

 

Okay, maybe it's not that good.  

[ChewMagma]

RDR2 is one of the most tedious games I have ever played with terrible controls. W3 had a beautiful setting and interesting quests but the combat was incredibly dull. Neither can hold a candle to Elden Ring really. BOTW is the only open world game that is in the same league imo.

[Let us measure]

10 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

If there is something that is making me question this game more than other from software titles is this kind of hyperbole. 

 

Good game, I am having a fun time with it, but nowhere near as revolutionary for open world games as people would like to think imo.

 

Sorry to pile on, but you're replying to someone saying that the game world is stunning with the retort that it's not revolutionary. 

 

ER's open world isn't revolutionary but it is stunning. For precisely the reasons that you've brought up. It wouldn't work with loading screens at all. That one screenshot that everyone takes of the vista overlooking Liurnia of the Lakes, with the academy in the distance, and the capital further still, and then Mt. Gelmir behind that... And each location just as recognisable from miles away as it is from when you're deep within it. 

 

It's a crazy achievement. At all times like being thrown into a Caspar Friedrich painting or something. 

 

 

[Talk Show Host]

12 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

RDR2 is one of the most tedious games I have ever played with terrible controls. W3 had a beautiful setting and interesting quests but the combat was incredibly dull. Neither can hold a candle to Elden Ring really. BOTW is the only open world game that is in the same league imo.

 

I totally disagree but we are talking about the open worlds specifically anyway. Sure, the combat in Elden Ring is on another level but that makes sense because it is its main thing. I don't think its a fair comparison to use it to compare it to other games though. It would be like saying "Elden Ring sucks compared to the W3 because the latter has an incredible story while the former doesn't".

[Talk Show Host]

2 minutes ago, Let us measure said:

 

Sorry to pile on, but you're replying to someone saying that the game world is stunning with the retort that it's not revolutionary. 

 

ER's open world isn't revolutionary but it is stunning. For precisely the reasons that you've brought up. It wouldn't work with loading screens at all. That one screenshot that everyone takes of the vista overlooking Liurnia of the Lakes, with the academy in the distance, and the capital further still, and then Mt. Gelmir behind that... And each location just as recognisable from miles away as it is from when you're deep within it. 

 

It's a crazy achievement. At all times like being thrown into a Caspar Friedrich painting or something. 

 

 

 

Fair point, but I already said it is a stunning world, but not the most stunning we have ever seen in open worlds. 

[ChewMagma]

7 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I totally disagree but we are talking about the open worlds specifically anyway. Sure, the combat in Elden Ring is on another level but that makes sense because it is its main thing. I don't think its a fair comparison to use it to compare it to other games though. It would be like saying "Elden Ring sucks compared to the W3 because the latter has an incredible story while the former doesn't".

 

Elden Ring's story is better than Witcher's as well 😛

[ChewMagma]

(I do genuinely believe that though...)

[Exit Chamber]

5 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

we

 

This seems to be the problem, you presumably mean "I".

[Minion]

9 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I totally disagree but we are talking about the open worlds specifically anyway. Sure, the combat in Elden Ring is on another level but that makes sense because it is its main thing. I don't think its a fair comparison to use it to compare it to other games though. It would be like saying "Elden Ring sucks compared to the W3 because the latter has an incredible story while the former doesn't".

 

But this is exactly what you did when you bought RDR2 and TW3 into the conversation explaining that the world of Elden Ring is not inhabited by npc's everywhere.

 

Quote

 

it is not built as a proper inhabited open world but as a playground

 

 

 

 

As always it seems like you're trying to shit on a game because you prefer another, TW3 which you are strangely evangelical about and you've contradicted yourself here because of this bias. As for maps Elden Ring has the best map of any game ever, it's a work of art, I've never studied a map in a game like I have in Elden Ring. Face it, it does so many things way better than TW3 ever did, the game was impressive but quickly became tedious, it wouldn't make any of my 'top' lists as I couldn't even finish it because I was so bored by the end.

[Petrousgyre]

1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

The Elden Ring doesn't have to follow any rules that make sense in an inhabited open world. It doesn't have to include cities, NPCs and NPCs behaviour, random animal behaviours, extended quest lines

 

I sense you’ve not played very much Elden Ring. 

[Talk Show Host]

3 minutes ago, Minion said:

 

But this is exactly what you did when you bought RDR2 and TW3 into the conversation explaining that the world of Elden Ring is not inhabited by npc's everywhere.

 

 

As always it seems like you're trying to shit on a game because you prefer another, TW3 which you are strangely evangelical about and you've contradicted yourself here because of this bias. As for maps Elden Ring has the best map of any game ever, it's a work of art, I've never studied a map in a game like I have in Elden Ring. Face it, it does so many things way better than TW3 ever did, the game was impressive but quickly became tedious, it wouldn't make any of my 'top' lists as I couldn't even finish it because I was so bored by the end.

 

I am trying to shit on a game that I have already said its a stunning achievement and I am having a good time playing it?

 

It is prettly clear who is obsessively against any view that doesn't support ER as the second coming. 

[ChewMagma]

At the end of the day, it is really hard to compare these games taken holistically because they are very different tonally and in what they want to achieve. Elden Ring really ticks all the boxes for me, I find it difficult to find any serious criticisms, but I also recognise it is a fairly acquired taste in many respects.

 

Basically Miyazaki took every weirdo, pulp dark fantasy book from the 60s and 70s, added a hefty dose of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, a pinch of Lovecraft, and blended it with massive quantities of Berserk. And then sold 12 million copies of it. In 2022. It is astonishing really.

[Minion]

Just now, Talk Show Host said:

 

I am trying to shit on a game that I have already said its a stunning achievement and I am having a good time playing it?

 

It is prettly clear who is obsessively against any view that doesn't support ER as the second coming. 

 

Well ok maybe shitting on is a bit strong sorry, but my point is you felt the need to criticise the game and used an example by comparing elements of TW3 and RDR2 as evidence of this criticism even though you then later admitted that a comparison of the combat between the 3 games would not be fair because Elden Rings is so good. Do you not see how that comes across as speaking rubbish? It's fair to make a comparison between populated open worlds and elden ring but not the combat system? My posts do sound quite antagonistic I can only put that down to being sunday morning and feeling exhausted. Criticise away but using RDR2 or TW3 as examples of better games is where I feel you are wrong. TW3 did have some good story and writing in the first half but by the middle/end it does nothing new and overstays it's welcome. RDR2 is the most tedious game I have ever played, it looks stunning, the open world is an incredible achievement, but as a game it fails miserably with outdated combat and controls and no player agency in the journey through the game.

[Talk Show Host]

2 minutes ago, Minion said:

 

Well ok maybe shitting on is a bit strong sorry, but my point is you felt the need to criticise the game and used an example by comparing elements of TW3 and RDR2 as evidence of this criticism even though you then later admitted that a comparison of the combat between the 3 games would not be fair because Elden Rings is so good. Do you not see how that comes across as speaking rubbish? It's fair to make a comparison between populated open worlds and elden ring but not the combat system? My posts do sound quite antagonistic I can only put that down to being sunday morning and feeling exhausted. Criticise away but using RDR2 or TW3 as examples of better games is where I feel you are wrong. TW3 did have some good story and writing in the first half but by the middle/end it does nothing new and overstays it's welcome. RDR2 is the most tedious game I have ever played, it looks stunning, the open world is an incredible achievement, but as a game it fails miserably with outdated combat and controls and no player agency in the journey through the game.

 

I never compared W3 and Elden Ring directly as games, I just compared their open worlds. Maybe you missed some of my posts?

[Talk Show Host]

9 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

At the end of the day, it is really hard to compare these games taken holistically because they are very different tonally and in what they want to achieve. Elden Ring really ticks all the boxes for me, I find it difficult to find any serious criticisms, but I also recognise it is a fairly acquired taste in many respects.

 

Basically Miyazaki took every weirdo, pulp dark fantasy book from the 60s and 70s, added a hefty dose of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, a pinch of Lovecraft, and blended it with massive quantities of Berserk. And then sold 12 million copies of it. In 2022. It is astonishing really.

 

And he didn't even need Martin to do anything.  😜

[Zael]

I think TW3's world is a bit of a playground too. Finish that game and look at your map and count the amount of little icons that are spread out there. And a lot of it is the same stuff, bandit camps, monster lairs, etc. And yeah the game is set in a more active world and so they need more NPCs but I've always thought that was to the games detriment. The NPCs in TW3 are so static. Big hubs like Beauclair and Novigrad are full of NPCs following the same routes, shouting the same dialogue, quest givers rooted in place until you talk to them.

 

I love TW3 but the open world is only ok imo. There's a lot of good things in it but they fill it with ?'s that have you repeat the same activities. Elden Ring doesn't do anything new but I've never had a moment in TW3 like I had in ER where I saw the Caelid Wilds or Siofra or Leyendell for the first time. 

[Talk Show Host]

10 minutes ago, Zael said:

I think TW3's world is a bit of a playground too. Finish that game and look at your map and count the amount of little icons that are spread out there. And a lot of it is the same stuff, bandit camps, monster lairs, etc. And yeah the game is set in a more active world and so they need more NPCs but I've always thought that was to the games detriment. The NPCs in TW3 are so static. Big hubs like Beauclair and Novigrad are full of NPCs following the same routes, shouting the same dialogue, quest givers rooted in place until you talk to them.

 

I love TW3 but the open world is only ok imo. There's a lot of good things in it but they fill it with ?'s that have you repeat the same activities. Elden Ring doesn't do anything new but I've never had a moment in TW3 like I had in ER where I saw the Caelid Wilds or Siofra or Leyendell for the first time. 

 

Fair point, but the generic NPCs in open worlds are there to enhance the atmosphere, nothing more. An inhabited open world like W3 or RDR2 would look silly with no NPCs.

 

I personally still remember the first time I saw Beauclair or Skellige Islands, so the W3 has plenty of moments like that as well. For an open world it doesn't lack awe, although ER has a greater effect because the imagination in the art has practically no limits, unlike in the more traditional open world games which usually need to follow a cultural or historical theme.

[ChewMagma]

25 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

And he didn't even need Martin to do anything.  😜

 

Legitimately don't know what GRRM did on this game tbh.

[Talk Show Host]

3 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

Legitimately don't know what GRRM did on this game tbh.

 

I think he named some heroes and from them the bosses were created?

[Captain Kelsten]

Someone go make a thread to discuss the merits or failing of various open world game worlds! 

[jonamok]

1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

 It’s a stunning achievement

Careful now, that sounds like “hyperbole”.