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She-Hulk: Attorney at Law series coming to Disney + 17th August


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3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:
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As has been said it's a spaceship from Sakaar the planet from Ragnarok. Interesting to note that the setting in Ragnarok, the planet and the concept of Hulk becoming a gladiator, was taken from one of the most famous (and best) Hulk stories from the comics: Planet Hulk. Since Marvel doesn't have the distribution rights to a solo Hulk movie, they took that story and gave it to Thor. In a watered down version, nowhere near as good as the original comic. The Sakaarian space ship showing up might hint at Hulk getting another chance at doing Planet Hulk right because there's also rumours Marvel are regaining the tights in 2023.

 


Tights? Spandex is your best friend!

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It's not really a negative, but the script did feel slightly "prescribed".

 

I found it weird for example that

 

Spoiler

Hulk himself was being put in the role of the man baby trying to control a woman kind of thing, and he wasn't really acting entirely in a way we've seen Banner act in the past. He's been a lot more chill in the "Banner-hulk" personality which is supposed to be currently in control.

 

It's nice seeing him having actual family he jokes around with though, but you sort of assumed the Avengers were the only family he had.

 

She-Hulk on the other hand is definitely brilliantly characterised out of the gate, but hopefully they can start subverting it more than just eventually finding an excuse for smashing things. If the message of the show is that She-Hulk is ultimately in "control" of her destiny, then it will only undermine itself if Banner ends up being proved right in the end or something.

 

Because so far the subtext of the show is that, it doesn't matter how much she tries to assert control of her life, she's going to be forced to hulk out and bash things by the writers, for us, the audience, no matter how much she is protesting about doing it. Which ultimately seems quite patriarchal.

 

But anyway, it's current Marvel stuff though so better to lower expectations first.

 

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Yeah, I get that, but I think Benny's point was far more nuanced, thoughtful and insightful than the incel manbabies you were talking about are going to be. They won't be thinking like that, they'll just want her to show more cleavage and for the show to stop denigrating men! Which isn't what Benny's excellent point was. 

 

So in conclusion: still fuck those incel manbabies.

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I suppose an argument could be made in episode 1 that Jen is a bit of a She-Hulky Sue. Stuff that Banner has been struggling with for 15 years - the very essence of what makes Hulk a great superhero - isn't an issue for her at all. She can transform at will. She still has super-strength. She doesn't have 'the other guy'. So if you're of a certain point of view, I can see why you'd have problems with it. It does kinda diminish Bruce's struggle, as Jen is already a perfect Hulk (I'm sure she'll face a lot of struggles later on, I'm just talking about if we only had episode 1 here).

 

But the show is so wildly entertaining that I say don't look too deeply into it, and just go with the fun. I love the fourth wall breaking and the dialogue, and it's genuinely funny which you couldn't say (well, I couldn't anyway) about the sitcom bits of Wandavision. So while the messaging about female empowerment is a bit on the nose at times, I don't give a shit.

 

I did read one thing elsewhere that made me think, though. Hulk's backstory under Ruffalo must have changed significantly from previous incarnations, given that Jen's talk about his anger versus hers doesn't in any way reflect his massive childhood trauma. In the 80s and 90s comics, Bruce had an abusive, alcoholic father who killed his mother because he blamed Bruce for taking his wife's love away from him. I can't remember what the backstory was in Ang Lee's Hulk (EDIT: Seems to be the same as the comic) or in the MCU Ed Norton film. And was the Ed Norton film supposed to take place in the same universe as Ang Lee's one? I can't remember.

 

Anyway, it was as good a first episode as Ms Marvel for me, and I bloody loved the start of that show! Can't wait for next week!

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9 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

I did read one thing elsewhere that made me think, though. Hulk's backstory under Ruffalo must have changed significantly from previous incarnations, given that Jen's talk about his anger versus hers doesn't in any way reflect his massive childhood trauma. In the 80s and 90s comics, Bruce had an abusive, alcoholic father who killed his mother because he blamed Bruce for taking his wife's love away from him. I can't remember what the backstory was in Ang Lee's Hulk or in the MCU Ed Norton film. And was the Ed Norton film supposed to take place in the same universe as Ang Lee's one? I can't remember.

 

The Ed Norton film didn't go into any of Bruce's backstory really and even covered his "accident" in the opening credits. I haven't seen the Ang Lee movie.

 

They seem to have repurposed a lot of the abusive childhood / mental trauma storyline for Moon Knight in the MCU.

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1 minute ago, Garwoofoo said:

 

The Ed Norton film didn't go into any of Bruce's backstory really and even covered his "accident" in the opening credits. I haven't seen the Ang Lee movie.

 

They seem to have repurposed a lot of that stuff for Moon Knight in the MCU.

 

I really must watch Moon Knight, it's the only Marvel show I haven't seen yet.

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I had a bit of an odd problem with this, which wasn't a deal breaker by any means but really stood-out. She-Hulk is obviously going to be something Jen starts leaning into as she realises how popular she'll be, and probably have to learn a lesson about fame vs. principles or somesuch.

 

Which is fine, but I found the character itself to be a bit... male gaze-y? Despite having a female-presenting writer and director, the alter ego immediately loses the curly hair to get straight, flowing locks, and gets a very tall, curvy and buxom figure.

 

I don't know if i'm over-analysing this, or even if my opinion should even matter (it does feel a bit mansplainy to even be raising this) but with Ms. Marvel just finishing and showing women/girls don't have to fit the western archetype of beauty, having people swoon/Jen getting a lot of sex whilst 'getting rid' of the traits that 'hold her back' from being perceived as gorgeous feels a little off at the moment. I dunno, I'll need to keep watching, but I couldn't not mention it as it stood out like a sore green thumb for me.

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She Hulk in the comics has always been a very sexually confident character and it’s a massive part of her personality, I mean she even got kicked out of living in the Avengers mansion once, as she kept on bringing strange men there without the correct security clearances.

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16 minutes ago, SaintAnselm said:

She Hulk in the comics has always been a very sexually confident character and it’s a massive part of her personality, I mean she even got kicked out of living in the Avengers mansion once, as she kept on bringing strange men there without the correct security clearances.

 

Yes, that's the character as created, as you say. All this whining about 'how can she do what Banner struggled with' is fucking ridiculous.

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I think the biggest disappointment for me was

 

Spoiler

Smart Hulk coming back. Surely nobody likes smart hulk? He's a worse version of Banner and a worse version of Hulk. Smug Hulk indeed.

 

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2 hours ago, SaintAnselm said:

She Hulk in the comics has always been a very sexually confident character and it’s a massive part of her personality, I mean she even got kicked out of living in the Avengers mansion once, as she kept on bringing strange men there without the correct security clearances.


She Hulk FUCKS!

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1 hour ago, Scribblor said:

Only if you're wilfully misinterpreting what Jen says in that clip, projecting a backstory onto Bruce that the MCU character doesn't actually have, and being one of those incel manbabies we were talking about before.

 

But he does have that backstory right? They showed Ang Lees Hulk in the intro of the Incredible Hulk and that Banner is the same Banner we have now, not arguing just making sure i have it right in my head. 

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The differing back stories is exactly the point anyway, isn't it?

Spoiler

It's always been a mainstream Hulk canon that the main raging Hulk incarnation exists because of Bruce's pre-existing mental conditions, not the gamma, hasn't it? He's got trauma and rage and it's all repressed and not managed. So it bursts out as the Hulk.

 

Whereas this show is giving you a different character where they're more used to managing and processing anger and isn't as affected by it as a direct consequence.

 

I don't think it's at all out of line with the existing setups.

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25 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

The differing back stories is exactly the point anyway, isn't it?

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It's always been a mainstream Hulk canon that the main raging Hulk incarnation exists because of Bruce's pre-existing mental conditions, not the gamma, hasn't it? He's got trauma and rage and it's all repressed and not managed. So it bursts out as the Hulk.

 

Whereas this show is giving you a different character where they're more used to managing and processing anger and isn't as affected by it as a direct consequence.

 

I don't think it's at all out of line with the existing setups.

 

Quite, but horrible Mary-Sue hating 'fanboys' can't get cross about that.

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I seem to be the only one who didn't really enjoy this that much, then 🙈 I'll keep watching of course, it's not terrible and maybe it will pick up over the next few episodes. I did chuckle at a couple of the lines. But I really don't like the VFX in this, especially in the Hulks eyes (both Hulks). Oftentimes they just look dead or like they are looking past the person they're speaking to, instead of at them. That really bothered me.

 

I also hope Tatiana is going to get the chance to flex her acting muscle properly on this show, somewhere down the line. She's incredibly talented and tbh deserves more than quippy over-the-top comedy. But then again, maybe I should just rewatch Orphan Black and reign in my expectations here a bit.

 

I'm also just a grump this evening, so maybe that's why. Still looking forward to the next episode and curious if the show will grow on me :)

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This probably sounds stupid but I was hoping the show would settle down after the origin stuff and focus on the drama part more than the superhero part. The most interesting parts of Wandavision  Moon Knight and Ms Marvel have been the dramatic parts, in my opinion, so was hoping this would promote that first.

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1 hour ago, Illyria said:

I seem to be the only one who didn't really enjoy this that much, then 🙈

 

Nope, I didn't really enjoy it much either. About 90% of the jokes didn't land for me. It all felt very forced in terms of humour. I thought Ruffalo was phoning in his performance at times, like he was just reading off the script. And the FX are still not great. Still very Shrek like. Disappointed overall.

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1 hour ago, SMD said:

This probably sounds stupid but I was hoping the show would settle down after the origin stuff and focus on the drama part more than the superhero part. The most interesting parts of Wandavision  Moon Knight and Ms Marvel have been the dramatic parts, in my opinion, so was hoping this would promote that first.

Literally breaks the 4th wall at the start of the episode to say. So let's get this origin bollocks out of the way. So the nerds can unhitch their panties and we can move on with the real show. 

 

And it is not going to be a drama.  This is a sitcom. And it's one of those Lawyerly ones. 

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4 hours ago, Matt Defis said:

 

But he does have that backstory right? They showed Ang Lees Hulk in the intro of the Incredible Hulk and that Banner is the same Banner we have now, not arguing just making sure i have it right in my head. 


They don’t show ang lees hulk in the start of incredible, they show a montage of new footage giving this hulk a similar back story. The banner in incredible and the MCU isn’t the one from that movie.

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