Can we expect a new Nintendo console any time soon?

[bear]

One of the things that doesn't get enough attention while discussing the Wii-Us failure is that it was fundamentally a bit shite. 

 

Early in the pandemic I set mine up at my  mothers with the idea that she could use Wii Fit for doing some yoga. 

She is reasonably tech savvy but found the whole setup so unintuitive that she didn't bother using it. 

 

It wasn't a good device. Even basic stuff like how during setup it got you to create a profile and then checked for an OS update which it needed to apply before you could try to add your Nintendo account just felt backwards. And as for nonsense like using a proprietary adaptor to charge the gamepad when Micro USB would have worked just fine...

 

 

[HarMGM]

According to the previous Nintendo President, Nintendo wants to move away from their usual console lifecycle from 4-6 years. Instead they want one of 7-10 years for the Switch.

 

Eagle eyed forumites will notice that this is more in line with their handheld lines, barring the GBA.

 

2024 at the earliest. 2027 at the latest.

[Paulando]

23 minutes ago, HarMGM said:

Eagle eyed forumites will notice that this is more in line with their handheld lines, barring the GBA.

It’s crazy the GBA was only around for 3 1/2 years before the DS came out. It has a large and pretty incredible software library, and felt like it was out for ages.

[HarMGM]

40 minutes ago, Paulando said:

It’s crazy the GBA was only around for 3 1/2 years before the DS came out. It has a large and pretty incredible software library, and felt like it was out for ages.

I think a lot of that is down to the PSP. Had that device not launched midway then I think the GBA would have had a similar lifespan to the DS.

 

But yes, its library is immense and it really did feel like it was eternal back in the day.

[Qazimod]

In hindsight I ended up having belated respect for the GBA being one of the last vanguards of the 2D pixel era. (Of course that era is far from dead, but the GBA hardware struggled to do much else so it was kind of a specialty.  ) Yes there were technical feats like VD-Dev's racers and things, but also Metroid, the Mario Advances and Wario Lands, the Castlevanias, a few good Kirbys and Mega Mans, some decent updates to the classic overhead Final Fantasy games, the Sonic Advance series... I know that the DS had some pretty groundbreaking moments, but I feel like GBA represents an era and retro aesthetic we won't get back outside of remakes and homages.

[HarMGM]

The GBA the last time we got pixelart made for the commercial mainstream market rather then just for the enthusiast crowd. The former always leading to a variety of interesting choices that could wow layman with beautiful art direction, like in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories or Wario Land 4 or Mother 3 or Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission.

 

I remember one time an older friend of mine walked in as I was playing Fire Emblem via de Game Boy Player on my TV. He immediately started shit talking GBA games as being nothing more then "upgraded flashgames" and "why would you play stupid handheld games if you could play REAL console games."

 

And then the battle animations started up and shut him up real fucking good. He wound up admitting that those animations put the entirety of Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun to shame and he certainly wasn't expecting that from a handheld game circa 2003/2004.

[partious]

I don't think we'll see a new console anytime soon. Why would they bother when it basically has no competition and is still selling well? 

 

Also I see the "people didn't understand the Wii U name/what it was and that's why it didn't sell" thing coming up again. It's amazing that consumers can tell the difference between Xbox one, Xbox one s, Xbox one x, Xbox series s and Xbox series x well enough but they just couldn't wrap their heads around a move from Wii to Wii U with a gap of years between the two.

[Hass]

I often look at switch games and think they look exactly how their creators wanted them to. It seems well specced for the types of games that run on it and I'm constantly amazed what it can push out.

[MattyP]

21 hours ago, Rayn said:

With 4K TVs steadily becoming the norm I'm expecting their next console to be at least as powerful as the PS5/Series X, anything weaker won't fly for a piece of hardware released 2-3 years after those consoles. It wouldn't surprise me if they would go for much weaker hardware, though. 

Nintendo gave up competing with MS and Sony in terms of powerful hardware a long while ago (Wii onwards). Their strength is coming up with innovative ideas on hardware that supports the idea. So in terns of "power" Nintendo really don't care. No matter what the consumer thinks. 

[Stanley]

6 hours ago, partious said:

I don't think we'll see a new console anytime soon. Why would they bother when it basically has no competition and is still selling well? 

 

Also I see the "people didn't understand the Wii U name/what it was and that's why it didn't sell" thing coming up again. It's amazing that consumers can tell the difference between Xbox one, Xbox one s, Xbox one x, Xbox series s and Xbox series x well enough but they just couldn't wrap their heads around a move from Wii to Wii U with a gap of years between the two.

I don’t think it was the name so much as not understanding the product - whether it was an add-on for the current Wii, a console and a handheld combined, the whole controller situation, they just didn’t get it. 

[robdood]

[easilydone]

21 hours ago, rgraves said:

 

Xbox X Series Y

Xb0x knowing MS

[easilydone]

16 hours ago, scottcr said:

 

Personal hotspots... sorted.  

 

I've got a 500Gb connection and cloud gaming still looks and runs a bit wank.

Yeah I’m on 500mb connection and it’s only as good as which room I’m in. If I sit next to the router it’s fine but that’s not really a very practical use case for hand held. It needs to work everywhere, not just sweet spots. 

[moosegrinder]

3 hours ago, Hass said:

I often look at switch games and think they look exactly how their creators wanted them to. It seems well specced for the types of games that run on it and I'm constantly amazed what it can push out.

 

This fall's apart with games like Hyrule Warriors Age Of Calamity. The console is hugely underpowered for what the game does and as such runs like an absolute fucking hound.

[rgraves]

16 hours ago, bear said:

One of the things that doesn't get enough attention while discussing the Wii-Us failure is that it was fundamentally a bit shite. 

 

See, I fundamentally disagree with that. There was a lot wrong with the Wii-U, but the idea was actually, fundamentally, a good one IMO. Being able to game away from the main TV, having a seperate screen for stuff like chase and sweet day in Nintendoland, being able to tap the map to jump in Splatoon - all things that worked really well. Made those games better, or only achieveable on that platform (Nintendoland remains a massively underappreciated/experienced multiplayer title as a result)

 

Hell, even just being able to move the map and equip management to the pad in stuff like ZombiU showed the potential was there. Not *essential* to the experience no, but it did make it better (play ZombiU on WiiU and then on any of the other platform ports and you'll see it pretty clearly).

 

It was a calamity, but it didn't need to be - with a few different decisions being made I think it could have been a whole lot better for them (and, more importantly, us). If WiiU has taken off just a little bit more, I think we'd have seen some really exciting and unusual stuff from Nintendo.

[rgraves]

16 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

This fall's apart with games like Hyrule Warriors Age Of Calamity. The console is hugely underpowered for what the game does and as such runs like an absolute fucking hound.

 

That's just the genre though right - up the power and it doesn't run better - they don't run the same game at 60fps, they throw more shinies and enemies at it until it still runs like a dog just the same. Musou on any platform is a recipe for 20 fps.

[Popo]

1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

 

This fall's apart with games like Hyrule Warriors Age Of Calamity. The console is hugely underpowered for what the game does and as such runs like an absolute fucking hound.

Aren’t hounds known for running very well?

[Clipper]

1 hour ago, rgraves said:

 

 

Hell, even just being able to move the map and equip management to the pad in stuff like ZombiU showed the potential was there. Not *essential* to the experience no, but it did make it better (play ZombiU on WiiU and then on any of the other platform ports and you'll see it pretty clearly).

 

 

The potential wasn't realised and people made jokes about map screens but in ZombiU using the pad for that stuff was absolutely essential to the gaming experience. Every time I managed inventory to grab or change a weapon or check my map location it was nerve wracking as the game didn't pause and so I kept flicking eyes up to the screen in case i got jumped (which I often did). It rose the level of anxiety and peril immensely.

 

I got the port on a couple of other platforms and it is like half the game is missing. I am almost tempted to get a WIiU just so I can play ZombiU properly again.

[Darren]

1 hour ago, rgraves said:

 

See, I fundamentally disagree with that. There was a lot wrong with the Wii-U, but the idea was actually, fundamentally, a good one IMO. Being able to game away from the main TV, having a seperate screen for stuff like chase and sweet day in Nintendoland, being able to tap the map to jump in Splatoon - all things that worked really well. Made those games better, or only achieveable on that platform (Nintendoland remains a massively underappreciated/experienced multiplayer title as a result)

 

Hell, even just being able to move the map and equip management to the pad in stuff like ZombiU showed the potential was there. Not *essential* to the experience no, but it did make it better (play ZombiU on WiiU and then on any of the other platform ports and you'll see it pretty clearly).

 

It was a calamity, but it didn't need to be - with a few different decisions being made I think it could have been a whole lot better for them (and, more importantly, us). If WiiU has taken off just a little bit more, I think we'd have seen some really exciting and unusual stuff from Nintendo.

 

I agree with this (especially about Nintendoland), and it's got me idly musing whether the logical next step for the "Switch 2" will be to revive the Wii U concept - by having it capable of displaying on the TV without being in the dock (i.e. connected wirelessly as the Wii U pad was) and also capable showing different things on both screens. They could even go down the Pac Man Vs/Four Swords Adventures route and allow multiple Switch 2s to wirelessly connect to the same dock/TV for multiplayer multiscreen madness!

[Rayn]

I checked with the latest AI craze what it thought and it has photographic proof of early prototypes:

[thesnwmn]

25 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

I agree with this (especially about Nintendoland), and it's got me idly musing whether the logical next step for the "Switch 2" will be to revive the Wii U concept - by having it capable of displaying on the TV without being in the dock (i.e. connected wirelessly as the Wii U pad was) and also capable showing different things on both screens. They could even go down the Pac Man Vs/Four Swords Adventures route and allow multiple Switch 2s to wirelessly connect to the same dock/TV for multiplayer multiscreen madness!

 

The problem with all concepts of the different things on each screen is that it fragments game support for different modes. The back of the box just becomes a pain if it's trying to say you can play half of the game in any mode and the other half requires the main console in hand but an extra screen (and the docking station) too. Which most pressingly requires that the console itself is charged - or you have a charging cable handy.

 

But I do love the idea of asymmetrical multiplayer in the same room. The idea of a hide and seek with the hider having their own screen.

[Clipper]

1 hour ago, Darren said:

 

I agree with this (especially about Nintendoland), and it's got me idly musing whether the logical next step for the "Switch 2" will be to revive the Wii U concept - by having it capable of displaying on the TV without being in the dock (i.e. connected wirelessly as the Wii U pad was) and also capable showing different things on both screens. They could even go down the Pac Man Vs/Four Swords Adventures route and allow multiple Switch 2s to wirelessly connect to the same dock/TV for multiplayer multiscreen madness!

Given the way they got their fingers burnt I'm not sure they'd go back to it.

 

Have Nintendo ever returned to a hardware idea once it failed? VirtuaBoy was a disaster and Nintendo don't touch VR now, Gamecube was their last attempt at a "power" console and now they don't bother trying to match the others.

 

I suppose at a stretch you could say the N64 failed partially because it stuck to cartridge and yet Nintendo returned to cartridge with the Switch.

[moosegrinder]

2 hours ago, rgraves said:

 

That's just the genre though right - up the power and it doesn't run better - they don't run the same game at 60fps, they throw more shinies and enemies at it until it still runs like a dog just the same. Musou on any platform is a recipe for 20 fps.

Well, no because the first one stays (relatively) solid. It's a prime example of the scope of the game being outside the host hardware for performance. 

 

Actually there's a question (that I can't Google or YouTube at the moment): how does it run on a switch emulator on PC?

[thesnwmn]

11 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Well, no because the first one stays (relatively) solid. It's a prime example of the scope of the game being outside the host hardware for performance. 

 

Actually there's a question (that I can't Google or YouTube at the moment): how does it run on a switch emulator on PC?

 

Well... that's the developer prioritising something over performance right?

 

Performance. Scale. Graphics.

Choose 2.

 

They can have performance and scale but they need to reduce the graphical fidelity. They chose not to.

They might have done that because they didn't want the sequel to look worse than the first (in terms of quality vs scale) but it's still their choice to push beyond the boundaries of the system and accept shaky performance.

[matt0]

Yeah, historically (PS2 era) the Dynasty Warriors games were a mostly solid 60fps in single player. It's one of the things that used to really impress me about them. In the 360 / PS3 generation they shifted focus.

 

I played FE Warriors on (New) 3DS and while it looked about as good as you expect it ran pretty well considering the hardware - so they can optimise for performance when it suits them.

[moosegrinder]

6 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

Well... that's the developer prioritising something over performance right?

 

Performance. Scale. Graphics.

Choose 2.

 

They can have performance and scale but they need to reduce the graphical fidelity. They chose not to.

They might have done that because they didn't want the sequel to look worse than the first (in terms of quality vs scale) but it's still their choice to push beyond the boundaries of the system and accept shaky performance.

 

But they didn't choose for it to run at about 15 frames frequently. There's no way anyone on that development team though the way it runs is a good compromise. It's a necessary one, but it really isn't a good one. The Switch doesn't need 4k, it needs a hardware refresh to make games like Age of Calamity run well. It's not like it's a port problem, because it's Nintendo IP developed for Nintendo hardware (but not by Nintendo).

[rgraves]

2 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

But they didn't choose for it to run at about 15 frames frequently. There's no way anyone on that development team though the way it runs is a good compromise.

 

They absolutely did - unless you think when they played the final game they were surprised by the framerate themselves somehow?

[thesnwmn]

1 minute ago, moosegrinder said:

 

But they didn't choose for it to run at about 15 frames frequently. There's no way anyone on that development team though the way it runs is a good compromise. It's a necessary one, but it really isn't a good one. The Switch doesn't need 4k, it needs a hardware refresh to make games like Age of Calamity run well. It's not like it's a port problem, because it's Nintendo IP developed for Nintendo hardware (but not by Nintendo).

 

How did they not choose that? They knew the specs of the machine. They developed it specifically for the machine. Ergo they chose to make it run like that.

 

They could have reduced the poly count of models or backgrounds. Or reduced the number of particles in effects. Or dropped the resolution. They chose not too therefore they chose that it rans like this. I'd argue it's not necessary at all and they felt the trade off was worth it.

 

I'd love a more powerful Switch. I think even Nintendo games which prioritise look and style over technical effect would benefit greatly from a bit more power to improve resolution or model detail.

[MW_Jimmy]

3 hours ago, rgraves said:

If WiiU has taken off just a little bit more, I think we'd have seen some really exciting and unusual stuff from Nintendo.

 

That's completely the wrong way round! The Wii U didn't take off because there was never enough of a USP for the pad. The nearest they got was Mario Maker but most other experiences were either too thin or unnecessary.

 

I have a WiiU fully set-up underneath my telly and I so wish I could pack up that pad for good. They should've decoupled the pad for the product - 100%. I like some of the gimmicks but 90% of the time I'll be playing with the Pro controller.

 

The Switch recognised the only good bit of the pad - playing console experiences away from the living room TV.

[Wonderm]

I think anything other than Switch II is a terrible decision, can't see them deviating from the console/handheld hybrid now either, they'd be foolish to do so. Maybe you end up with better processing power and a bigger screen? At a push, a better VR headset than the weird labo one

 

I wouldn't have put it past them to call it the New Switch U 3D XL historically but they've been a lot smarter the last few years