Football thread 2022/23

[milko]

1 hour ago, glb said:

 

Do you thank that's because of Dyche being involved and having an iron grip on things, or because he generated enough viral content with his pressers and interviews that the social media team could rest on its laurels a little bit?

 

Asking because I remember a story emerging from Liverpool about Klopp vetoing an All or Nothing series at the club. Find it interesting how much managers do control things at certain sides, probably through sheer force of personality. Imagine Dyche would do wonders for Everton, so hoping he goes nowhere near them, obviously.

 

The manager not wanting tv crews in the dressing room and so on is a bit of a step from "giving a shit how the social team announce new signings" though! Surely nobody on the coaching side would get into that, it's just whether a team hires a plucky young social media kid with ideas (and a designer or two to help) and actually let them do what they want.

[ckny]

@Plissken Have you seen Bank of Dave yet? Was gutted to learn (end of film spoilers)

 

Spoiler

The Def Leppard concert at t'Turf never happened! Nice Dyche cameo too, I did question whether it was filmed post sacking and they made him throw on an old tracksuit top he still had in his wardrobe.

 

 

[glb]

12 minutes ago, milko said:

 

The manager not wanting tv crews in the dressing room and so on is a bit of a step from "giving a shit how the social team announce new signings" though! Surely nobody on the coaching side would get into that, it's just whether a team hires a plucky young social media kid with ideas (and a designer or two to help) and actually let them do what they want.

Oh for sure but Dyche does strike me as the type of manager, for better or worse, that might well put a kibosh on such things. 

 

The vids are great though, long may they continue. The Weghorst one is a banger.

[Plissken]

2 hours ago, glb said:

 

Do you thank that's because of Dyche being involved and having an iron grip on things, or because he generated enough viral content with his pressers and interviews that the social media team could rest on its laurels a little bit?

 

It's difficult to say because the way the club did everything pre-ALK and after is very different, and there was not really enough evidence to say either way before Dyche was sacked.  It's virtually impossible to tell, though the Weghorst thing was an indicator.

 

I think that it's probable that if he was still here, Dyche would react to questions about it with a "not my thing, kids seem to like it though".  But it's clear that Dyche did not like his players being on social media, and the likes of Ben Mee starting a Twitter account around the time of his leaving (I think) was indicative of that level of control.  Whereas ALK are more than happy to cross-promote players accounts.

 

Pre-ALK the club was very small-minded and unambitious when it came to a lot of things.  Post-ALK the club lost a lot of long-term employees (the main media guy - a lifelong Claret - is now Everton's Press Officer) and there was a lot of wariness about that. In hindsight, it was clear that ALK were adopting a mixture of "our way or the highway" and "you aren't our people, sorry, there is the door, thanks for your efforts".  This extended to the playing staff, when Ben Mee was offered a new contract but with a huge pay cut. From memory, there are six players left from the pre-ALK era and all but Josh Brownhill are slowly being eased out.

 

It's impossible to underestimate the sheer level of change that has happened at the club in (checks) the nine months and eleven days since Dyche's sacking.  An entirely new squad, manager and backroom staff, transfer strategy, revamped stadium and hospitality, fan experience, media presence. This is going to sound odd, but everyone felt that Dyche was bound into the fabric of the club like Clough or Ferguson, but the owners came in and while the fruits of his work (the training ground etc) are still prominent, there is no trace of him left behind any more as a person. The success on the pitch has made it remarkably easy to just move on. while retaining fond memories of what he achieved.

 

The TL;DR version is "probably, but we were heading that way and now he isn't here the brakes are off".

[Plissken]

1 hour ago, ckny said:

@Plissken Have you seen Bank of Dave yet? Was gutted to learn (end of film spoilers)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Def Leppard concert at t'Turf never happened! Nice Dyche cameo too, I did question whether it was filmed post sacking and they made him throw on an old tracksuit top he still had in his wardrobe.

 

 

 

It's on the list.  Dave's an awesome guy in real life and he's done a hundred times more for the people of Burnley and Pendle than a more well known political operator from the area.  He made his money, got his toys and then decided he'd spend the rest of his life trying to help people and make them happier.

[Plissken]

1 hour ago, milko said:

 

The manager not wanting tv crews in the dressing room and so on is a bit of a step from "giving a shit how the social team announce new signings" though! Surely nobody on the coaching side would get into that, it's just whether a team hires a plucky young social media kid with ideas (and a designer or two to help) and actually let them do what they want.

 

There are rumours of an All or Nothing style documentary but maybe that's just a behind the scenes thing based on seeing a few cameras in the dressing room.  By all accounts, Amazon actually got pitched it but there are been no real evidence that I could see.

 

Dyche would have squashed it flat, mind.

[glb]

31 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

It's difficult to say because the way the club did everything pre-ALK and after is very different, and there was not really enough evidence to say either way before Dyche was sacked.  It's virtually impossible to tell, though the Weghorst thing was an indicator.

 

I think that it's probable that if he was still here, Dyche would react to questions about it with a "not my thing, kids seem to like it though".  But it's clear that Dyche did not like his players being on social media, and the likes of Ben Mee starting a Twitter account around the time of his leaving (I think) was indicative of that level of control.  Whereas ALK are more than happy to cross-promote players accounts.

 

Pre-ALK the club was very small-minded and unambitious when it came to a lot of things.  Post-ALK the club lost a lot of long-term employees (the main media guy - a lifelong Claret - is now Everton's Press Officer) and there was a lot of wariness about that. In hindsight, it was clear that ALK were adopting a mixture of "our way or the highway" and "you aren't our people, sorry, there is the door, thanks for your efforts".  This extended to the playing staff, when Ben Mee was offered a new contract but with a huge pay cut. From memory, there are six players left from the pre-ALK era and all but Josh Brownhill are slowly being eased out.

 

It's impossible to underestimate the sheer level of change that has happened at the club in (checks) the nine months and eleven days since Dyche's sacking.  An entirely new squad, manager and backroom staff, transfer strategy, revamped stadium and hospitality, fan experience, media presence. This is going to sound odd, but everyone felt that Dyche was bound into the fabric of the club like Clough or Ferguson, but the owners came in and while the fruits of his work (the training ground etc) are still prominent, there is no trace of him left behind any more as a person. The success on the pitch has made it remarkably easy to just move on. while retaining fond memories of what he achieved.

 

The TL;DR version is "probably, but we were heading that way and now he isn't here the brakes are off".

 

Thank you for the thorough reply! It is fascinating seeing snippets of Burnley this season, like the clip you posted a few pages back with the flicks and neat triangles of passing, even that feels like a dramatic change. Although I do think that perception comes from your club unfairly being given a reputation of being some sort of old-fashioned bunch of cloggers. The reality is Dyche got the most out of the resources available, and did it well enough to rattle plenty with far, far more at their disposal.

 

I'd be interested to see how Dyche gets on elsewhere because he was so engrained with Burnley's recent success in achieving well above par, then deservedly establishing the club as a top-flight side. Will also be interesting to see how well Kompany might do should you see the season through to promotion. Maybe that's why Pep's really been rattled recently, he knows what's coming!

[glb]

Won’t have to wait too long to see how Dyche gets on elsewhere, as he’s about to be appointed Everton manager.

[Plissken]

It's a sign of how dysfunctional they are that the choice was between Dyche and Bielsa.  Dyche would do the better job IMO, but stylistically there's not much in the way of planning going on.  Tarks might be happy to see him again, McNeil less so.  (I still firmly believe McNeil is a damned good player, but he's very much a confidence player and that has been hammered flat over the past two and a bit seasons.)

 

It will be funny to see Dyche moving his furniture back into Jurgen Klopps head as well.

[Mike1812]

 

[Hamus]

FA CUP

I'm sure others have mentioned this, could tonight's match be another Manchester club beating Arsenal with a superb winner - and Arsenal will surrender both the FA Cup and the title?

 

What a match this could be.

 

Nailed on 1-1 scrap with a replay.

[glb]

24 minutes ago, Plissken said:

It will be funny to see Dyche moving his furniture back into Jurgen Klopps head as well.

 

Yup, the Merseyside derby on 13th Feb just got cranked up a few more notches. Would not be shocked to see Burn- sorry, Everton get something.

[davidcotton]

Dyche being reported as done for new Everton boss. 

[spork]

[Loik V credern]

1 hour ago, Mike1812 said:

 

Unusual but remarkable, why. I don't see the big deal about considering two coaches who have opposite approaches and it then being seen as further indication the owner has no idea what they want. Long term can anyone deny that if Bielsa is given everything he wants he'd rejuvenate the club like no one else and reconnect the fans to the club, which is desperately needed.

 

I think if you can get Bielsa interested enough to get on a plane and make his way to your club and you don't hire him when you've been on a gradual decline for 7 years and have no idea how to run a club and he'll transform everything from the ground up for you then it's a huge missed opportunity. Bielsa doesn't need to work, doesn't need to bother repeating his Leeds success. If you can get his attention to detail then it's a bit more than just hiring someone competent to get you 3 points at the weekend. 

 

Don't want to be simplistic and reductive but Dyche is in the same mould of manager as Moyes, Alladyce, Hodgson and Benitez, all who were hired to keep teams in the relegation zone from being relegated who...have all been relegated so if the decision of who to hire hinged on more certainty on Dyche keeping Everton up then..we can't know.

 

We've seen Nathan Jones at Southampton comprehensively beat Man City in a competition they've dominated for half a decade, so he might keep them up especially with Ward Prowse scoring free kicks every other week. Looking at the teams that might replace Everton and Southampton, Wolves with the highly rated Lopetegui? West Ham under Moyes? Leeds? Forest? Leicester? West Ham do struggle for goals but all the other teams don't and that's said as being what teams at the bottom desperately need, then..I expect Dyche to keep Everton up because it's a well known manager and that's why here's there, new manager bounces are common and it going badly wrong is unusual unless the manager is such a poor man manager and Dyche is far from that. Unless like Benitez he does well but still gets relegated. 

 

From the outside there doesn't seem much difference in idolisation from fans for Dyche at Burnley and Nuno at Wolves, Nuno made the step up, failed and has fallen to a Saudi club. Dyche is not making a step up that it could go so wrong but the impression I always get from Everton fans is Moyes provided stability but boredom and they've long yearned for something more.

 

With how passionate fans are in Liverpool I think it would have been a good fit with Bielsa, if people want to be accountants and suppose going down to the Championship cannot be accepted whatsoever that Bielsa's ideas would have led to, because they just cannot afford it, sure. New £500m stadium in construction I know. I think Bielsa battering the Championship again might have been the most fun Everton fans could have had in a long long time though.

 

If players who are successful when they arrive in teams because they provide something no other player has, and are kind of a revelation because everyone desired what they bring, then what do Everton and the fans desire more, boring stability or reigniting their passion for their club. No one say there's no choice here, going down to the Championship is unrecoverable. Bielsa's will to work with the youth Everton have shows he wouldn't ask for so many new signings. 

 

The idea Dyche is some kind swashbuckling adventurist at heart whose vision for football is sky high if it were not for the pennies he has to spend to achieve it scuppering his ambition..I think that's a fallacy when it's said of any manager. Has anyone not a fan of Burnley ever looked forward to highlights of Burnley vs other mid table club? Ever looked forward to Burnley vs a top 6 team? Sorry if I've made Plissken's eyes roll so far into the back of his head he's gone blind, but it's generally true, it's not like Diego Simeone plays expansive football with spending £100m on Felix, undeniably one of the most talented young attacking players in the world who is smovered by the football Simeone always plays. 

[Gabe]

4 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

Bielsa's will to work with the youth Everton have shows he wouldn't ask for so many new signings. 

He asked (or believed) they needed at least 7 to transform the squad according to reports, didn't he? Lack of pace was a big concern.

 

And whilst he may well have worked well with the youth, how long realistically would he plan to be at Everton? He's not a young man and a focus on youth isn't going to deliver the quick results they need to stay up.

[ryodi]

7 hours ago, Plissken said:

It will be funny to see Dyche moving his furniture back into Jurgen Klopps head as well.

It’s impossible for Everton to dive, time waste and try to injure Liverpool players in the derby more than they did when Lampard was in charge. It’ll be interesting to see how it works out for him, is he a modern Alan Curbishly whose methods only work at one club built by him or can he make it work at a basket case like Everton. 

[Loik V credern]

5 minutes ago, Gabe said:

He asked (or believed) they needed at least 7 to transform the squad according to reports, didn't he? Lack of pace was a big concern.

 

And whilst he may well have worked well with the youth, how long realistically would he plan to be at Everton? He's not a young man and a focus on youth isn't going to deliver the quick results they need to stay up.

 

He's only 67! (Going on 68). I think only being at clubs for a few years at a time and having breaks between jobs, any break being possibly permanent extends him doing it for longer, it's different to Fergsuon and Wenger retiring at 70. But if he gives it just 3 years, and that includes transforming their structure, coming back up to the premier league and maintaining them there for a season whilst reconnecting the fans to the club in a way that lasts for years afterwards, then..what more could people want.

[Plissken]

The first time Bielsa lasted more than two seasons at a club was at Leeds.

[Plissken]

Also. This is what he did the one season we had his squad and uninjured. I guess those Everton fans complaining about him weren’t actually there.

 

 

[dizogg]

8 hours ago, glb said:

 

Yup, the Merseyside derby on 13th Feb just got cranked up a few more notches. Would not be shocked to see Burn- sorry, Everton get something.

Lol, Klopp has a great record against Dyche. Even with our shocking form he doesn’t stand a chance.

[wev]

Why does Haaland look like he's running through tar?

[wev]

52 minutes ago, wev said:

Why does Haaland look like he's running through tar?

By this I don't mean he's slow, he's not, it just looks like he's running slower than he's actually moving

[Mike1812]

 

[Plissken]

That’s a nice little finish from Ake.

[SeanR]

Fucking hell, city’s keepers had loads of touches this half…

[Loik V credern]

dunno why I find these so funny. 

[deerokus]

How to blow up your management career in three games, by Jim Goodwin.

 

 

 

 

 

[Plissken]

I was going to post something along those lines.  I mean, if you lose a cup game to a team six tiers below you and from a town no larger than a bus stop, you would expect a response from your players in the next one.  I just don't think he was expecting a response of "we really, really hate you".

[Fry Crayola]

Five tiers below! 

 

Which makes it ok. 😉