Football thread 2022/23

[Fry Crayola]

I mean the common name in English - I thought that was obvious. In other countries, they'll use the common name of that country in whatever language they speak. Pretty common to see Welsh names for other countries crop up when watching Wales on S4C.

 

Ivory Coast is a pretty interesting outlier, mind you. The official name, even in English, is supposed to be the French Côte d'Ivoire, and that's the name that FIFA use. I guess what I'm interested in here is that Wales aren't looking to name the country as Cymru in all contexts henceforth, just their football team. Other than Tahiti, I'm not aware of another discrepancy like that.

 

I'm aware of the Netherlands/Holland thing too, by the way, but I definitely should have said "incorrectly" instead of "informally", or better yet not even mentioned it because it definitely isn't an example. D'oh!

[Petrousgyre]

16 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

I mean the common name in English

 

Right, but if I understand the situation this is Wales changing their official name, not necessarily the name they're known as in English.

[Fry Crayola]

It'd be a pointless endeavour if they didn't want to be referred to as Cymru in languages besides Welsh, wouldn't it?

[SMD]

1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

It'd be a pointless endeavour if they didn't want to be referred to as Cymru in languages besides Welsh, wouldn't it?

 

do you think people call england 'england' in their own languages

[SeanR]

4 minutes ago, SMD said:

 

do you think people call england 'england' in their own languages

Angleterre, nil point…

[Fry Crayola]

34 minutes ago, SMD said:

 

do you think people call england 'england' in their own languages

 

No, of course not, but why are you asking? What has given you that impression? 

 

Edit:

 

Looking back I can see where the confusion arises and the wires start the cross. What I wanted to say is that generally, the name people use to refer to the national team, and to the country, are pretty much the same thing, so Wales having their football team known as Cymru would be a rare exception.

[Naysonymous]

It’s probably the first step towards a change to referring to all of Wales as Cymru surely? Sport has a huge influence on culture and identity. 
 

Spoiler

Probably not the thread for the question but I’m going to throw it out there, but when did the concept of nationalism and nation states even really begin to exist?  
 

For most of recorded/civilised history people were more affiliated to a king or a settlement rather than a nation.

Italy, Germany and huge swathes of the USA were only founded during Victorian times. Most of  Africa and the Middle East didn’t solidify as nations until the 20th.  There are still places today where the concept of a nation state doesn’t really exist in the hearts of the people who live there (Afghanistan & the tribal areas of Pakistan being some obvious examples) so it’s odd trying to look back at how we ended up where we ended up through modern eyes and with modern values.
 

It probably happened here earlier than a lot of places simply because we live on an island, but the English haven’t always been English, the Welsh haven’t always been Welsh and so on. It’s odd how we can cling to these constructs.  

 

[SMD]

7 hours ago, Naysonymous said:

It’s probably the first step towards a change to referring to all of Wales as Cymru surely? Sport has a huge influence on culture and identity. 
 

  Hide contents

Probably not the thread for the question but I’m going to throw it out there, but when did the concept of nationalism and nation states even really begin to exist?  
 

For most of recorded/civilised history people were more affiliated to a king or a settlement rather than a nation.

Italy, Germany and huge swathes of the USA were only founded during Victorian times. Most of  Africa and the Middle East didn’t solidify as nations until the 20th.  There are still places today where the concept of a nation state doesn’t really exist in the hearts of the people who live there (Afghanistan & the tribal areas of Pakistan being some obvious examples) so it’s odd trying to look back at how we ended up where we ended up through modern eyes and with modern values.
 

It probably happened here earlier than a lot of places simply because we live on an island, but the English haven’t always been English, the Welsh haven’t always been Welsh and so on. It’s odd how we can cling to these constructs.  

 

 

there were nations in Africa and the Middle East going back millenia though?

[Naysonymous]

I’m no expert not I believe they were just like Europe where people were more bound by a leader, a religion or perhaps a city rather than the concept of a nation state. Nationalism is a relatively modern construct, and even that may be doomed in the long term as globalisation takes hold and people move increasingly online so people feel connected by means other than geographical proximity.  I mean we’ve got British people who were born in the 90s who feel oddly nostalgic for Bob Ross despite never having grown up watching his TV show.   I guess what I’m saying is that the world and identity are weird and for the most part we ended up where we did by accident.  Wales thinking about switching to Cymru is just an interesting part of that, but it will cement more of a regional identity and perhaps move them culturally further from the clutches of Westminster. 

[Chindie]

From my degree course on nationalism, it's generally held to have arose from the French Revolution iirc. Before that national identity being a thing to have pride in wasn't really a thing.

[Plissken]

With thoughts turning to the World Cup, at last it will provide a much-needed break for players whose countries didn't qualify, especially for those clubs who have previously complained about an excessive workload on their players.

 

In unrelated news, during the WC break, AC Milan will be in Dubai where they will play Liverpool and probably Arsenal.

[neoELITE]

11 minutes ago, Plissken said:

With thoughts turning to the World Cup, at last it will provide a much-needed break for players whose countries didn't qualify, especially for those clubs who have previously complained about an excessive workload on their players.

 

In unrelated news, during the WC break, AC Milan will be in Dubai where they will play Liverpool and probably Arsenal.

 

It's another pre-season for a lot of clubs. We've only got two league 1 fixtures this month and an FA Cup 1st round game. All of those are away games.

We don't play at home until Friday 2nd December. 

This World Cup is just stupid on so many levels. 

[Art Vandelay]

Most clubs aren't just letting their players vanish for a month though, they're still training and together as a group for a lot of it. I think what medical teams are concerned about is going from insane intensity to nothing, and then back to insane intensity again. Those games are out of convenience really as pretty much everyone is in Dubai for a training camp from the sounds of it, I'm not even sure there's plans for them to have spectators. It's not like that's unusual anyway, Arsenal often have behind closed doors games at the training ground against decent opposition. 

 

The players everyone should be worried about are the ones going. With any luck US and Swiss authorities will force FIFA to finish and we can start again as what they're doing is mental.

[Stopharage]

The World Cup is going to give some clubs a significant advantage. Read an article a couple of weeks back where Pickford was likely to be the only Everton player going to the WC. Gives Lampard a real opportunity to work on systems and tactics with the rest of the squad. 

[ckny]

Not sure that's much of an advantage tbh.

 

Just looking at United's squad, of the first team regulars only De Gea, Lindelof, Martial (probably), Sancho (probably) and McTominay won't be going. Bit worrying.

[Chindie]

Villa will have very meagre representation at the tournament, thankfully. Martinez, Cash, possibly Bednarek, Dendoncker. Kamara and Digne probably would have had a chance but both picked up injuries at the worst times - and now both are rushing back to fitness. Luiz is out of favour with Brazil as is Coutinho. Mings has upset Gareth something rotten somehow. The entire strike force is English and ain't getting a call up...

 

Couldn't have wished for a better time for Villa to have out of favour internationals.

[Naysonymous]

I can’t see why Mings would be in the England squad at the moment.  He’s definitely not in the top half dozen English central defenders based on form or ability.  

[Art Vandelay]

His one chance is if Southgate wants to add another frustrated number 10 to the squad to go with the others.

[Gabe]

3 hours ago, Stopharage said:

The World Cup is going to give some clubs a significant advantage. Read an article a couple of weeks back where Pickford was likely to be the only Everton player going to the WC. Gives Lampard a real opportunity to work on systems and tactics with the rest of the squad. 

I suppose the break gives somebody time to teach Lampard tactics first, too. 

[Chindie]

37 minutes ago, Naysonymous said:

I can’t see why Mings would be in the England squad at the moment.  He’s definitely not in the top half dozen English central defenders based on form or ability.  

Oh he doesn't deserve to be there currently, but when he was ditched by Southgate he wasn't performing that badly, and hadn't let England down in any appearance.

[Shimmyhill]

Son gets a bang to the head… still no actual guidance for a head injury and almost like the player decided to go off down the tunnel. FIFA need to sort this out.

[bradigor]

2 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

Son gets a bang to the head… still no actual guidance for a head injury and almost like the player decided to go off down the tunnel. FIFA need to sort this out.

 

It's disgraceful. Temp concussion subs are a must 

[Naysonymous]

I really like watching Napoli at the moment. They are so easy on the eye. 

[Naysonymous]

Those ten second VAR checks eh? 

[bradigor]

1 minute ago, Naysonymous said:

Those ten second VAR checks eh? 

 

Goal should have stood. It was so stupid 

[Azrael]

0 points and minus 20 Goal Difference after 6 games. Is that a record for worst performance in the CL group stages? 

[neoELITE]

9 minutes ago, Azrael said:

0 points and minus 20 Goal Difference after 6 games. Is that a record for worst performance in the CL group stages? 

 

Someone else got 0 points once. I think it was a Spanish team. 

 

EDIT just looked it up. A few teams have but with better GD. 

A bit of trivia, Dynamo Zagreb played 6, lost 6 and only had 8 shots on goal in 2016/17. 

 

 

[Naysonymous]

Flipped it over to Marseilles vs Spurs for the last twenty, Spurs do like an injury time winner don’t they? Hojbjerg wins the game and the group, and puts Marseilles out with practically the last kick. 

[Naysonymous]

15 minutes ago, Azrael said:

0 points and minus 20 Goal Difference after 6 games. Is that a record for worst performance in the CL group stages? 

The goal difference might be the worst. There have been a fair few teams finish the groups with 0 points. Viktoria Plzen finished in with 0 points in Group C this year too. 

 

 @neoELITE is probably thinking of Villarreal who did it once. They got to the semis not so long after so there’s hope for Rangers yet. 

[Yobo Ahoy]

Dinamo Zagreb were the previous record holders with -19 GD. Tonight was a straight shootout between Rangers and Plzen (who equalled -19 in the end), and Rangers outdid themselves again by going one worse.