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Black Panther - Wakanda Forever - November 2022


Chindie
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I''m no Marvel fanboy or anything but have generally enjoyed most of their movies and loved a few. After being told not to watch Thor 4 because it has a heavily cancer based storyline and what with poor Chadwick passing from the exact same shit I have it feels like Marvel have it out for me, what did I do to you Feige?! :lol:

 

Hopefully I'll be able to check this out once it hits D+, will be a tough watch I'm sure. Hope people able to go to the cinema are enjoying it and Chadwick is honoured well.

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3 hours ago, Haribokart said:

I''m no Marvel fanboy or anything but have generally enjoyed most of their movies and loved a few. After being told not to watch Thor 4 because it has a heavily cancer based storyline and what with poor Chadwick passing from the exact same shit I have it feels like Marvel have it out for me, what did I do to you Feige?! :lol:

 

Hopefully I'll be able to check this out once it hits D+, will be a tough watch I'm sure. Hope people able to go to the cinema are enjoying it and Chadwick is honoured well.


Yeah I went to see it unaware of that plot line to cheer myself up two days after my mum died from cancer. 😢

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Waaaaayyy too long. We’re talking Return of the King levels of dragging the ending out.

 

Having said that, I really enjoyed it and thought it was a better film than the first. Apart from the final battle scenes it didn’t feel like a typical Marvel film which is a positive. Due to the excessive length though there’s no way I would watch it again.

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It’s easily the best phase four film (depending on how much you enjoyed the far from home fan service). For one thing, it has a plot. It has characters with motivations other than just “I’d like to be evil”. It has overarching themes. It looks, in places, stunning. It features both visual and plot callbacks to earlier points in the movie and they make sense.

 

it also has plotlines that are only there for the wider MCU (Ross and his ex-wife), and plotlines that a purely about providing a macguffin to trigger conflict (you could cut one character’s whole thread and I don’t think it would make a difference, other than that I don’t know how Shuri would naturally end up where she did - perhaps just make her an ambassador or something, but I suppose that wouldn’t set up (spoiler)?).

 

I can’t see people wanting to watch it multiple times.

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The search for the scientist that the beginning of the film hinges on was stupid as there would be literally dozens of people with that knowledge by that point, and that's assuming it wasn't published.

 

And then halfway through the film Namor says something along the lines of "never mind the scientist, I'm going to do this other thing instead anyway". Poor story crafting that.

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21 minutes ago, Haribokart said:

 

Don't think anybody here is gonna be finding this funny.

I'm not taking the piss

 

Spoiler

I genuinely like what these guys do, making a celebration of a persons life, similar to New Orleans jazz funerals or other similar ones in the Caribbean. There was almost a touch of it in the movie.

 

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1 hour ago, drmick said:

The search for the scientist that the beginning of the film hinges on was stupid as there would be literally dozens of people with that knowledge by that point, and that's assuming it wasn't published.

 

And then halfway through the film Namor says something along the lines of "never mind the scientist, I'm going to do this other thing instead anyway". Poor story crafting that.

The scientist character and Tim from the Office are both rubbish characters, just there to shift the plot along.

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1 hour ago, Fierce Poodle said:

The scientist character and Tim from the Office are both rubbish characters, just there to shift the plot along.

 

Ironically they don't really. Both could be excised from the plot. They are there purely to set up future movies and TV shows.

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55 minutes ago, Mallet said:

Did Marvel lose a lot of writers or something?

 

I haven't watched any of phase 4 yet but it seems most of the films are regarded as pretty meh? As in not awful but nothing you need to rush out and see either.

 

After Infinity War they had nowhere to go. Everything was either going to feel small or pointless. Even Endgame wasn't quite as good.

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29 minutes ago, DualSense said:

Yeah Endgame felt like a fitting ending to the saga everything that’s come after feels a bit meaningless.

 

Yes, but also they need to build to another IW/Endgame level event. But I get it. Once you've had this huge newr universe ending event (that people seemed to have moved on from very quickly), it's hard to care much about the small scale squabbles. The TV has been the winner of Phase 4 for me.

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1 minute ago, Stigweard said:

 

Yes, but also they need to build to another IW/Endgame level event. But I get it. Once you've had this huge newr universe ending event (that people seemed to have moved on from very quickly), it's hard to care much about the small scale squabbles. The TV has been the winner of Phase 4 for me.

Do we even know who the big bad is going to be for this next part of the MCU? Have they even been revealed yet? I’m sure by this point in the Endgame run we knew about Thanos.

 

I think at the moment it all feels a bit directionless, with everything being it own thing rather than part of a coherent whole that’s heading somewhere.

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7 minutes ago, JPL said:

Do we even know who the big bad is going to be for this next part of the MCU? Have they even been revealed yet? I’m sure by this point in the Endgame run we knew about Thanos.

 

I think at the moment it all feels a bit directionless, with everything being it own thing rather than part of a coherent whole that’s heading somewhere.

 

Yeah it's Kang for Phase 5, the seeds were planted in Loki and he's the villain in Antman 3. The next Avengers film is called "The Kang Dynasty"  and then the finale of Phase 6 is going to be Secret Wars which would indicate Dr Doom.

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Although there was the infinity stones and all that before hand including Thanos in the The Avengers, I seem to recall Kevin Feige stating somewhere, though I can't seem to find the quote to confirm, that it was Guardians of the Galaxy the influenced really going down the infinity stone "saga" and Thanos as the main antagonist. So, to me Phase 4 seems like it's setting up a few strands including setting up Kang for Phase 5 and 6.

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5 hours ago, Mallet said:

Did Marvel lose a lot of writers or something?

 

I haven't watched any of phase 4 yet but it seems most of the films are regarded as pretty meh? As in not awful but nothing you need to rush out and see either.

 

This comment got me curious so I checked. The writers do seem to have changed, but not really for this sequel, exact same people wrote it.

 

And the people who did all the Russo Bros ones also wrote The Gray Man so it probably doesn't matter who writes these films really anyway, unless it's a James Gunn one as he puts his personal stamp on his work.

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I quite enjoyed Wakanda Forever, but I think the reason that a lot of the Phase Four films have landed badly is because Marvel have stretched themselves really thin. In previous years they only had 2 movies to worry about, these days it’s 3, plus 3-4 tv series. I think they’re just not able to keep up the tight grip on quality control that they once had. 

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The Phase 4 stuff suffers from essentially being an epilogue in the main. They all tell

quite small stories and without the bigger arc nods and winks, and it's hard to generate the same interest when you've literally just spent years teeing up and then beating a universe threatening villain.

 

Black Widow is a side story which that only really fills a gap nobody cares about and introduces a new character, is perfectly fine but nothing brilliant. Shang-chi is an origin story that does it's own thing almost entirely but it's decent fun. Eternals is dreadful. No Way Home is Fan Service - the Movie, and in that lane it's quite good, but didn't really do anything earth shattering otherwise. Dr Strange 2 is basically an epilogue for A.Character smashed into Raimi doing My First Horror Movie and completely underutilised it's concept (which is rubbish anyway), but it's decent. Thor 4 is an epilogue for a couple of characters and wastes it's villain, and isn't as good as Ragnarok, but is perfectly fine. 

 

None of them, besides the obvious, are bad films, but the highlights are pretty slim throughout. It feels like they've kinda pulled the curtains on phase 4 without much fan fare.

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