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George Cropper has a video out

SeanR

By SeanR,
in Retro & Arcade Gaming

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ianinthefuture

ianinthefuture

Posted
Posted

Youtube rewards you for churning out content - not everyone, but those who get big tend to get big by putting out multiple videos per week. You don't get to putting out multiple videos per week by spending half your time in shadowy corners plotting on how to keep the Youtuber proletariat under the heel.

 

You get to a point in subscriber numbers/popularity where collaborations make sense - you're big enough to have something of an audience, someone else (often with a bigger audience) comes in and makes a guest appearance in a video. It's win-win (though usually a bigger win for the smaller channel). As a result, yes, those with a Certain Amount Of Subs Or Popularity will tend to gravitate towards one another, and so will become chummy with one another, and so yes - at gaming expos and so on will likely hang out with each other.

 

Shock of all shocks this might lead to a clique forming. I am aghast. The thing that happens in literally every like-minded group of people ever? Happening here? In my retro circles?


Throw on top of it the fact that a lot of us nerds are shit at talking to people so might seem like twats on first meeting, and you've got a fine recipe for the conspiratorially-minded out there to say it's all a pre-arranged mafia state intent on controlling the means of (retro) production.

 

This is the exact sort of shite that was trotted out repeatedly about games journalists, back when they were more relevant. We spoke to each other: COLLUSION. Two separate magazines scored something similarly: CORRUPTION. A high score was given: MONEY CHANGED HANDS.

 

Sometimes - sometimes - that stuff does (and did) happen. But, like, 0.00000001% of the time. Mostly it was just low-paid, hard-working idiots too stubborn or stupid to get a real job being abused by people who didn't know what they were talking about on the internet. And, if you couldn't tell, this bleating on about the UK retro Youtube lot has my hackles up, and I'm not even in their fruity little gang.

 

Top Hat Gaming Man is still a massive bell end

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ulala

ulala

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I know they weren’t meaning to, but someone has perfectly defined the word “cartel”. 

 

“a group of independent market participants who collude with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. Cartels are usually associations in the same sphere of business, and thus an alliance of rivals. Most jurisdictions consider it anti-competitive behavior and have outlawed such practices.”

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Rex Grossman

Rex Grossman

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56 minutes ago, ulala said:

I know they weren’t meaning to, but someone has perfectly defined the word “cartel”. 

 

“a group of independent market participants who collude with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. Cartels are usually associations in the same sphere of business, and thus an alliance of rivals. Most jurisdictions consider it anti-competitive behavior and have outlawed such practices.”


This does happen in most small-scale things though. For example, the best way to get listeners to a podcast is to make an appearance on another podcast. And they appear on your podcast. And then you go on another podcast etc. it’s very cliquey but it’s how things are done when it’s easier and more profitable to work together in a small group than aim to destroy ‘the competition’. But of course if your podcast gets quite big then you’re not going to let a nobody make a guest appearance. And you won’t stoop so low as to appear on theirs. So the big boys stick together and organically keep out the small fry.

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partious

partious

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How long was the Harryhausen photo on screen for? Was the video about “this photo of Harryhausen” or was it something flashed for two seconds in a video about old games? 
 

As a non-UK person, I find that the UK retro scene seems to have a lot of aggro and angry people involved. There often seems to be some sort of infighting going on around website ownership/management, niche products and now YouTube creators, something which I don’t seem to notice as much with stuff from other countries.

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ianinthefuture

ianinthefuture

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3 hours ago, partious said:

How long was the Harryhausen photo on screen for? Was the video about “this photo of Harryhausen” or was it something flashed for two seconds in a video about old games? 
 

As a non-UK person, I find that the UK retro scene seems to have a lot of aggro and angry people involved. There often seems to be some sort of infighting going on around website ownership/management, niche products and now YouTube creators, something which I don’t seem to notice as much with stuff from other countries.

It was a video about Altered Beast, and the photo was on screen for a second or two.

 

He used a copyrighted image without permission, though, doesn't matter what the topic was or how long it was for. Loads of YouTubers do it, he got caught doing it. And then made it much worse for himself for trying to throw his weight around alongside his wife's terrible acting.

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Peter St John

Peter St John

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5 hours ago, ianinthefuture said:

It was a video about Altered Beast, and the photo was on screen for a second or two.

 

He used a copyrighted image without permission, though, doesn't matter what the topic was or how long it was for. Loads of YouTubers do it, he got caught doing it. And then made it much worse for himself for trying to throw his weight around alongside his wife's terrible acting.

 

Well, it does matter a touch, because if it was about Harryhausen as a subject, they'd have a fair use leg to stand on (at least in the US with the DMCA).

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partious

partious

Posted
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6 hours ago, ianinthefuture said:

It was a video about Altered Beast, and the photo was on screen for a second or two.

 

He used a copyrighted image without permission, though, doesn't matter what the topic was or how long it was for. Loads of YouTubers do it, he got caught doing it. And then made it much worse for himself for trying to throw his weight around alongside his wife's terrible acting.

 

Did he have no alternative but to pay the 500 quid? Could he have disputed it/taken down the video/removed the picture/argued fair use etc?

I'm just curious as I didn't know it was so easy to be stung for a fairly significant amount of money on youtube, as opposed to just having the video demonitized or taken down, considering how much of retro gaming YouTube is based around some sort of iffy copyright stuff. 

I've never heard of anything more punitive than a video being taken down/demonitised, but maybe it's a common occurance?

 

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ulala

ulala

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23 minutes ago, partious said:

 

Did he have no alternative but to pay the 500 quid? Could he have disputed it/taken down the video/removed the picture/argued fair use etc?

I'm just curious as I didn't know it was so easy to be stung for a fairly significant amount of money on youtube, as opposed to just having the video demonitized or taken down, considering how much of retro gaming YouTube is based around some sort of iffy copyright stuff. 

I've never heard of anything more punitive than a video being taken down/demonitised, but maybe it's a common occurance?

 

 

"stung"?

 

what do you mean by that?

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Anne Summers

Anne Summers

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Posted
44 minutes ago, partious said:

 

Did he have no alternative but to pay the 500 quid? Could he have disputed it/taken down the video/removed the picture/argued fair use etc?

 

Yes, he could have argued that. But the copyright holder could have counter-argued that none of it applied, and it might have ended up going to court and then he'd likely have to pay even more because there would be expenses and court fees - the fact that they didn't even mention considering going down this route suggests that they were pretty sure that they would lose and it wouldn't be a great idea. Better just to pay up and move on. Or in this case pay up and then cry to their fanbase to get their fans to donate and cover their losses. 

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ulala

ulala

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1 hour ago, partious said:


What do you mean by your question?

 

I was asking a question about copyright and youtube. Zero interest in getting involved in the latest uk retro scene aggro beyond that.

 

your use of language and in particular "stung"

 

> "I'm just curious as I didn't know it was so easy to be stung for a fairly significant amount of money on youtube, "

 

It's a word that means to swindle or exorbitantly overcharge.

 

No one is swindling or overcharging anyone

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Peter St John

Peter St John

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If I'm being totally honest, a DMCA strike (before contacting anybody involved - yes I know he couldn't find a contact address until after he issued the strike) is a bit of overkill. He's fully within his legal right, naturally, but as somebody who isn't a copyright maximalist, I do find it a bit much.

 

(To state the obvious, though - whatever I think of that, it in no way absolves the pair in any way of what they did in response)

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yakumo

yakumo

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Peter St John said:

If I'm being totally honest, a DMCA strike (before contacting anybody involved - yes I know he couldn't find a contact address until after he issued the strike) is a bit of overkill. He's fully within his legal right, naturally, but as somebody who isn't a copyright maximalist, I do find it a bit much.

 

(To state the obvious, though - whatever I think of that, it in no way absolves the pair in any way of what they did in response)

Even if he did contact them, do you think they be reasonable?. I'm doubtful.

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Peter St John

Peter St John

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9 minutes ago, yakumo said:

Even if he did contact them, do you think they be reasonable?. I'm doubtful.

 

Almost certainly not - but I am being charitable in that a copyright strike is something that will (rightly) cause YouTubers to panic, given that they can quickly get them banned from the platform. However, once he did reach out and offered a reasonable payment, and the pair were given good advice in the discord, what they did next was not on at all.

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Rex Grossman

Rex Grossman

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6 hours ago, Peter St John said:

 

Well, it does matter a touch, because if it was about Harryhausen as a subject, they'd have a fair use leg to stand on (at least in the US with the DMCA).


LOL. It was nowhere near fair use.

 

There seems to be a misconception that using a copyrighted image of something because you’re talking about that ‘something’ is fair use. That’s not how it works.

 

YouTube itself makes a point of saying

Quote

Courts typically focus on whether the use is 'transformative'. That is, whether it adds new expression or meaning to the original, or whether it merely copies from the original. Commercial uses are less likely to be considered fair, though it's possible to monetise a video and still be fair use.


 

Basically if you’re treating a medium such as YouTube for financial gain and haven’t actually read the rules you’re as stupid as someone who thinks: I don’t need driving lessons or a licence, I’ll just get in a car on the motorway and figure it out as I go along.

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Rex Grossman

Rex Grossman

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2 minutes ago, Peter St John said:

I never said it was; if they were doing a documentary on Harryhausen though, they'd be able to at least file a counterclaim. In an Altered Beast video? No such luck.

 

Only if their use of the picture was ‘transformative’’. It can’t simply be illustrative.

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