George Cropper has a video out

[Clipper]

So is the upshot that George (and you) don't like kickstarters as they don't like that funding model? Or is there more to his claims/unanswered questions/drama etc.

 

Because so far it all looks like a normal kickstarter to me.

[ulala]

2 minutes ago, Clipper said:

So is the upshot that George (and you) don't like kickstarters as they don't like that funding model? Or is there more to his claims/unanswered questions/drama etc.

 

Because so far it all looks like a normal kickstarter to me.

 

 

I see them as those things you get in work, where colleagues want to climb mount Fuji for 'charity' - where 90% of your donation gets them a free holiday of a lifetime.

 

This isn't a funding model at all. funding models build in a consistent revenue. This is basically "give me all the upfront costs as a gift because i'm internet famous".

 

You want startup capital, here you go, £5000 but for that I want a share of the profits and assets.

 

What I don't want it 10% off food. What a slap in the face.

 

 

[Clipper]

11 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

 

I see them as those things you get in work, where colleagues want to climb mount Fuji for 'charity' - where 90% of your donation gets them a free holiday of a lifetime.

 

This isn't a funding model at all. funding models build in a consistent revenue. This is basically "give me all the upfront costs as a gift because i'm internet famous".

 

You want startup capital, here you go, £5000 but for that I want a share of the profits and assets.

 

What I don't want it 10% off food. What a slap in the face.

 

 

yes I know you don't like these sorts of Kickstarters, you just said. But regardless of your personal feelings it is a valid funding model that people can pursue. Go search for "cafe" on kickstarter and you'll find many projects that are similar with rewards that are comparable. Some get funded and some don't.

 

If people want a retro games place in Norwich they can choose to help fund it.

 

I think there is a difference between saying "I don't personally agree with this funding model" and the more passive aggressive attack lines of "free money" "give me money because Im internet famous" etc. If there is more to this than it being a normal kickstarter then there is something for Nostalgia Nerd/Ashens to answer for but until then I don't see the need for the usual "retroscene drama"

[Protocol Penguin]

 

6 hours ago, Clipper said:

Does anyone other than cropper have anything to say about this as I do not delve into his cesspit of videos due to his abrasive, vitriolic nature and his obsessive focus. What he says in 20 minutes can be said in one paragraph usually so do we have that anywhere or is it just the usual rambling abuse.

Basically, George delved into the records at Companies House, and of the founders of this venture “coincidentally” seems to own a similar business which is currently around 24 grand in debt. George also raised reasonable points about how high-risk a business plan for a vegan arcade bar in the roughest area of Norwich is.

 

(Plus the fact is that Ashens seems to have quickly distanced himself from the business plan, based on an offhand statement he made on his Twitch channel.)

[SeanR]

1 hour ago, Clipper said:

yes I know you don't like these sorts of Kickstarters, you just said. But regardless of your personal feelings it is a valid funding model that people can pursue. Go search for "cafe" on kickstarter and you'll find many projects that are similar with rewards that are comparable. Some get funded and some don't.

 

If people want a retro games place in Norwich they can go to Retro Replay

ftfy.

 

I’ve not been keeping up with this one, but fuck those guys.

[robotattack]

1 hour ago, Clipper said:

If people want a retro games place in Norwich they can choose to help fund it.

 

Norwich already has Retro Replay though. Not to say there can't be more than one, but they're not filling a gap in the market. 

[Clipper]

Sounds like Norwich is the place to be if you are into retro or retro drama then

 

 

[MikeBeaver]

Was half tempted to drop the 175 on it just to go to the party, sure to be worth that for a look around, free drinks / food and the chance to network 😉 

[Rex Grossman]

If you're reliant on a Kickstarter for something like this it's usually because your business plan is shaky.

 

But if you can talk 'the community' into donating the spare cash to you then why would you bother with a business loan? (Not that you'd get one if your business plan relied on donations.)

[yakumo]

Guess if its a scam at least Slope will cover it in his kickscammer videos 

[phillv85]

Well since I looked at the kickstarter yesterday it's actually down by almost a thousand quid. Looks like this KS is pretty much done for unless they manage to get a lot of eyes on it soon. 

[Rex Grossman]

On 22/03/2023 at 09:47, ianinthefuture said:

As we all know, venues stop costing money to run once those elements are secured. Staff work for free, there's no rent to pay, food stocks replenish themselves, and old arcade machines are notorious for never needing servicing. Yeah makes no sense why someone might want an extra bit of seed capital to give their attempt at a business a bit of a cushion out of the gate. What a monster!

If you start a business and the only way you can pay staff, replenish food stocks and cover the rent is by asking for donations then the business probably isn’t viable.

 

Unless I’m missing the point and they’re not charging for entry or food and it actually is a charitable endeavour.

[yakumo]

23 hours ago, Clipper said:

Sounds like Norwich is the place to be if you are into retro or retro drama then

 

 

Also original home of Rllmuk too?

 

https://norwichphotos.co.uk/

 

[spanky debrest]

4 hours ago, phillv85 said:

Well since I looked at the kickstarter yesterday it's actually down by almost a thousand quid. Looks like this KS is pretty much done for unless they manage to get a lot of eyes on it soon. 

 

I interpreted the pitch as "we might as well leverage our minor celebrity to get some donations" because the backer perks are basically autographed books and invites to VIP events where you might meet other vaguely known YouTubers. 

 

Apparantly the proper arcade centre nearby (a stroll away from the pub they're renovating) has been there for a good while, but the Kickstarter pitch laments how the scene is dead and suggests that a vegan menu and arcade cabs 'curated' by content creators might be the shot in the arm it needs. 

[ianinthefuture]

2 hours ago, Rex Grossman said:

If you start a business and the only way you can pay staff, replenish food stocks and cover the rent is by asking for donations then the business probably isn’t viable.

 

Unless I’m missing the point and they’re not charging for entry or food and it actually is a charitable endeavour.

It's an alternative to seed money, which is a very normal thing in businesses. Having cash to use to get yourself going rather than starting with nothing and building up is infinitely, obviously preferable, so why not go that route if you can?

 

I'm not talking specifically about this Kickstarter, I've no idea if it's a scam or not - though none of those involved strike me as particularly skeevy - but it is 100% normal to get some money behind you before you start/open a business.

[Anne Summers]

If they've already got the venue (a big city centre pub by the looks of things) then they've presumably already made a pretty big financial investment in this, meaning it's going to go ahead regardless of whether they get the £25k from Kickstarter, right?

 

And it doesn't say anything to the contrary in the video. So ... I don't see a problem with this at all. It's just a way for people that are interested in the project to get hold of some perks. And £25k it a relatively small sum compared to the amount it costs to get something like this off the ground, I would have thought. 

 

Most importantly - no one seems to be lying about anything and certainly no one's forcing anyone to donate or get involved. So I don't really see how you can take issue with this. 

[Gregory Wolfe]

On 22/03/2023 at 16:56, Clipper said:

Sounds like Norwich is the place to be if you are into retro or retro drama then

 

 

 

I went to Norwich once, it was shut.

[Anne Summers]

17 hours ago, Rex Grossman said:

If you start a business and the only way you can pay staff, replenish food stocks and cover the rent is by asking for donations then the business probably isn’t viable.

 

Unless I’m missing the point and they’re not charging for entry or food and it actually is a charitable endeavour.

I don't think this is the case, they've already got the venue in the bag (apparently) so they must have funds from somewhere else. The Kickstarter is probably more of a community-building thing rather than a vital source of funds. They want to get a hardcore of ultra-keen, probably local fans who will be behind the project from day one and make up the initial customer base. That was the idea at a startup where I worked a few years back, anyway - the project was always going to go ahead thanks to VC investment. The crowdfunding was just about building the initial community. Some people say "Well that's not what Kickstarter is for!!!" but the truth is there's nothing against it in the rules, and as long as everyone's upfront about it (and like I said in the last post, no one is being forced to be involved) I don't really think there's anything wrong with it.

[spanky debrest]

30 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

I don't think this is the case, they've already got the venue in the bag (apparently) so they must have funds from somewhere else. The Kickstarter is probably more of a community-building thing rather than a vital source of funds. They want to get a hardcore of ultra-keen, probably local fans who will be behind the project from day one and make up the initial customer base. That was the idea at a startup where I worked a few years back, anyway - the project was always going to go ahead thanks to VC investment. The crowdfunding was just about building the initial community. Some people say "Well that's not what Kickstarter is for!!!" but the truth is there's nothing against it in the rules, and as long as everyone's upfront about it (and like I said in the last post, no one is being forced to be involved) I don't really think there's anything wrong with it.

 

Conversely, I think cynicism and criticism of this scheme is perfectly warranted and healthy precisely because four businesspeople couldn't raise the final 25K required for their new private commercial venture without scrounging from fans.

 

Celebrities - the ones who aspire to become influencers - are salespeople. That's their job, their role in society. And instead of offering outside investors profit sharing or equity they're selling them tokens, discount cards and the chance to indulge in parasocial activity. 

 

I think it's a bit shitty. That's all. Nothing scandalous or odious. Just a bit cringe.

[Rex Grossman]

1 hour ago, Anne Summers said:

I don't think this is the case, they've already got the venue in the bag (apparently) so they must have funds from somewhere else. The Kickstarter is probably more of a community-building thing rather than a vital source of funds. They want to get a hardcore of ultra-keen, probably local fans who will be behind the project from day one and make up the initial customer base. That was the idea at a startup where I worked a few years back, anyway - the project was always going to go ahead thanks to VC investment. The crowdfunding was just about building the initial community. Some people say "Well that's not what Kickstarter is for!!!" but the truth is there's nothing against it in the rules, and as long as everyone's upfront about it (and like I said in the last post, no one is being forced to be involved) I don't really think there's anything wrong with it.

Did the kickstarter you were involved in (was this Antstream?) give things like membership as a perk? If so I think that’s totally different. To me that’s trying to lock down customers to hit the ground running.

[Bluejam]

[JPickford]

Full.  Right.

[Bluejam]

[ulala]

Twenty five thousand pounds

 

 

[SozzlyJoe]

This is weirdly reminscent to me of the dying days of the Spectrum, when Your Sinclar suddenly grew a hip lifestyle section about skateboarding with the fabulously naive editor (who obvs wanted to edit a skateboarding magazine and didn't really care about Speccies in the grand scheme of things) writing that maybe when the Spectrum was no more maybe the mag could still survive. The speed at which this extra section disappeared made me think he got not so much a flea in his ear from the readership as a stick of dynamite up his arse.

 

So yeah, come for the arcade machines, stay for the vegan menu?

[Anne Summers]

2 hours ago, Rex Grossman said:

Did the kickstarter you were involved in (was this Antstream?) give things like membership as a perk? If so I think that’s totally different. To me that’s trying to lock down customers to hit the ground running.

Yeah we did - that's what these guys are doing too, I think ... They are offering tokens (for credits on the games I guess?) and discount on food and drink. 

[Anne Summers]

I honestly think you guys are being a bit overly cynical. I'm by no means a capitalist but as a lover of retro, the more things that exist like this the better, is my opinion, and if a consequence of them existing is that someone makes money out of it and then I can live with it. 

 

I'd love a place near me that's basically just a bar/restaurant with arcades. Somewhere I can just pop in for a quick drink and a play, and not something I have to pay an all-day entry fee that takes into account I might stay all day and play hundreds of games without paying another penny. Those places are great too, but I'd like the variety. 

 

Having said that ... I'll be (happily) surprised if it actually works out. I reckon they can open it regardless of how the Kickstarter goes. But keeping it open will mean the food and drink has to be good enough to carry it on its own. A big city centre bar and restaurant needs a lot of revenue to be viable and retro games on their own won't bring the footfall, I don't think. 

 

Being vegan is a strange choice (though obviously commendable). I wonder if it's an ethical decision by the owners, or a business decision? Is there a big crossover between retro gamers and vegans? 

[ulala]

13 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

I honestly think you guys are being a bit overly cynical. I'm by no means a capitalist but as a lover of retro, the more things that exist like this the better, is my opinion, and if a consequence of them existing is that someone makes money out of it and then I can live with it. 

 

 

Thats absolutely great, and i wholeheartedly agree.

 

Just don't ask people to pay your startup costs.

[Rex Grossman]

34 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

Yeah we did - that's what these guys are doing too, I think ... They are offering tokens (for credits on the games I guess?) and discount on food and drink. 

It’s things like 10% off food. It’s a bit rubbish IMO.

[Rex Grossman]

4 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

Thats absolutely great, and i wholeheartedly agree.

 

Just don't ask people to pay your startup costs.

And maybe don’t open a venue like this in a relatively small city that already has a very similar venue.