George Cropper has a video out

[Haribokart]

1 hour ago, hughsieman said:

Nothing ever seems simple and straightforward with these content creator, influencer, you tube personality types, does it😄

 

Thing is, over the last few years if you're not a hateful piece of shit like George, assembling some groups of bigots for whatever culture war BS is currently hot or involved in some other kind of drama you are not going to get noticed due to the insane amount of competition for even the most niche of subjects out there. Any combination of quality, being a good person, entertainment or being informative isn't going to get many eyes on your stuff now - as has happened with most forms of media beforehand these people are acutely aware of this and chose the less honourable route to get increased views.

 

In the long run the vast majority will look back and think 'it probably wasn't worth selling my soul for an extra £15 in ad revenue per month'.

[Mr Monday]

I’ve had a think about this, and I wish Nostalgia Nerd and co the best.  Nobody is forcing anyone to back the Kickstarter and some people may want to support the project and enjoy the perks.  

 

it’s not something I’d do, but if I was local to Norwich I would go and check it out to see what it was like.  George Cropper likes to police the UK retro scene but he has been banned from YouTube for his own questionable opinions and content.

 

When it comes down to it it’s retro games.  Some people thrive on drama.

 

[ulala]

Nahh, it’s a scummy move to get people to gift you free money.

 

The retro scene is full of it.

 

kofi, patreon, kickstarter et al… remember when we were asked to pay for a duvet cover because of a water leak and they couldn’t be bothered to wash it?

 

anyone who asks for money can get lost. 

[Protocol Penguin]

33 minutes ago, ulala said:

Nahh, it’s a scummy move to get people to gift you free money.

 

The retro scene is full of it.

 

kofi, patreon, kickstarter et al… remember when we were asked to pay for a duvet cover because of a water leak and they couldn’t be bothered to wash it?

 

anyone who asks for money can get lost. 

That basically sums up why I gave up on retro YouTube content or podcasts, with one or two exceptions. It’s not about the content any more, it’s all about “building a brand” while holding out a begging bowl.

[Gabe]

37 minutes ago, ulala said:

 remember when we were asked to pay for a duvet cover because of a water leak and they couldn’t be bothered to wash it?

What the hell? 

 

What’s the story with that? I assume it's a bit more than just a duvet? 

[SeanR]

12 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

That basically sums up why I gave up on retro YouTube content or podcasts, with one or two exceptions. It’s not about the content any more, it’s all about “building a brand” while holding out a begging bowl.

 

George stopped monetizing his videos in protest.

[ianinthefuture]

25 minutes ago, SeanR said:

 

George stopped monetizing his videos in protest.

The viewing figures he was getting he'd have literally been getting a few quid a year on YouTube. And he still has a Patreon. Bit of an empty protest.

[SeanR]

7 minutes ago, ianinthefuture said:

The viewing figures he was getting he'd have literally been getting a few quid a year on YouTube. And he still has a Patreon. Bit of an empty protest.

Because having principles doesn’t pay the bills.

[Anne Summers]

1 hour ago, ulala said:

Nahh, it’s a scummy move to get people to gift you free money.

 

The retro scene is full of it.

 

kofi, patreon, kickstarter et al… remember when we were asked to pay for a duvet cover because of a water leak and they couldn’t be bothered to wash it?

 

anyone who asks for money can get lost. 

Ok, so you literally don't think people should be able to make a living out of it.

That's fine and everyone's completely entitled to their opinion of course - I've just been trying to understand yours - not necessarily say you are wrong or anything.

[SeanR]

10 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

Ok, so you literally don't think people should be able to make a living out of it.

That's fine and everyone's completely entitled to their opinion of course - I've just been trying to understand yours - not necessarily say you are wrong or anything.

it’s clearly not a question of if, it’s the how/why that some people object to.

[ianinthefuture]

1 hour ago, SeanR said:

Because having principles doesn’t pay the bills.

GEORGE CROPPER, MAN OF PRINCIPLES

[Anne Summers]

1 hour ago, SeanR said:

it’s clearly not a question of if, it’s the how/why that some people object to.

Well no, because Ulalu straight-up said it's anyone who asks for money that they have a problem with. 

[phillv85]

I think at this point the how and if are the same thing. Unless you get millions of viewers per year then you’re not making a living from YouTube now without other forms of income whether that’s patreon or something else.

 

It seems YouTube ad revenue is crap unless you’re one of the lucky few.

[Protocol Penguin]

1 hour ago, Anne Summers said:

Well no, because Ulalu straight-up said it's anyone who asks for money that they have a problem with. 

I don’t think anyone’s got a problem with amateur YouTubers asking for a modest bit of cash to help cover the expenses of their hobby – I mean, one or possibly both of the retrogaming YouTube channels I still watch do, and I don’t find that an issue. It’s the parasitic wannabe media stars who build a ‘community’ to milk for funds (and exploit for editing chores) that’s the problem. Particularly as the latter group are getting griftier and more audaciously exploitative of their followers.

[Rex Grossman]

11 hours ago, ulala said:

Nahh, it’s a scummy move to get people to gift you free money.

 

The retro scene is full of it.

 

kofi, patreon, kickstarter et al… remember when we were asked to pay for a duvet cover because of a water leak and they couldn’t be bothered to wash it?

 

anyone who asks for money can get lost. 

I’m with you on a fair bit of this but this is harsh. 
As an example, @ianinthefuture tends to get a bit defensive on these topics because he has a Patreon. For someone like him, that’s getting a small amount of payment for making videos. This sort of thing is perfectly fine in my opinion. I don’t know what his Patreon offers but typical things would be early access to videos and the chance to suggest topics etc. I don’t see why any of that would be bad. 
 

It’s not like when retro YouTubers are saying they need money for bills or to buy a particular game for a video. 
 

I don’t think you can lump everyone in together on something like this.

[ianinthefuture]

1 hour ago, Rex Grossman said:

As an example, @ianinthefuture tends to get a bit defensive on these topics because he has a Patreon.

Also defensive because I know how much work it is to do something as 'simple' as making videos regularly. That's massively unappreciated by people who haven't done it - the sheer amount of hours that go into a 15-minute video.

 

As well as all the other stuff - YouTube paying pennies, you having no control over what ads run on your channel, all the platforms preferring massive creators so smaller folks not having a chance unless they - would you believe it - cultivate a community for themselves etc etc.

 

The blanket "you shouldn't ask for money" thing is objectively stupid. People deserve to be paid for their hard work, but the system is rigged in such a way that the pay has to come from other regular people rather than from the companies profiting the most from the creative output. If Patreon - and the rest - didn't exist you'd have Linus Tech Tips, Mr Beast, a bunch of idiot corporate shills, and fuck all else.

 

So.. err.. yes, I do get defensive about it. Support me on Patreon.

[Gabe]

1 hour ago, ianinthefuture said:

The blanket "you shouldn't ask for money" thing is objectively stupid. People deserve to be paid for their hard work, but the system is rigged in such a way that the pay has to come from other regular people rather than from the companies profiting the most from the creative output. If Patreon - and the rest - didn't exist you'd have Linus Tech Tips, Mr Beast, a bunch of idiot corporate shills, and fuck all else.

I think a lot of people just don't value a lot of the content out there and/or don't think doing YouTube videos is a 'real job'.

 

Edit: I suppose the bolded bit brings into focus why you (the royal 'you') are doing it in the first place though; is it because this is your hobby and you enjoy it, or are you doing it as a means of monetising something as a significant part of your income? Whilst that difference might not matter (nor even be thought about) by your audience, I get that it would to a creator and I think it would change how you view your audience.

[Mr Monday]

Making videos is a creative art like making music.  I make music as a hobby but in the unlikely event that lots of people wanted to listen to it I’d expect to be paid rather than give it away for free.

 

[SeanR]

“expect” though.

 

you want to get paid for it, charge for it. Don’t give it away for free and then expect anything in return.

 

that’s why some retro ‘tubers are viewed as grifters: where their offerings are bare minimum content, and begging.

 

or something?

[ianinthefuture]

3 hours ago, SeanR said:

“expect” though.

 

you want to get paid for it, charge for it. Don’t give it away for free and then expect anything in return.

 

that’s why some retro ‘tubers are viewed as grifters: where their offerings are bare minimum content, and begging.

 

or something?

What world do you live in where that's possible for people making videos or most other creative things on the internet? Even most newspapers can't charge people to access their stuff online.

 

The entire model has been broken for decades. Blaming individuals who decide to make some stuff - and try to get some money out of it - is hilariously off-target.

[JPickford]

Or building niche x niche businesses with no hope of success.  Everyone gets paid!

[Clipper]

IN terms of youtube channels and producers/creators of content.

 

Niche interests can generate enough income via patreon (or begging/grifting as some would call it) and other such funding networks.

 

I watch motorcycle channels and retro channels and those are both niche in the sense that most cannot make a living/survive on views alone. Some aren't trying to make a living and they do it as a hobby alongside their daytime job. Some do it as their main job and so they run patreons some do sponsorhip deals etc. to make ends meet/make a living.

 

If people enjoy that content and want to support it via patreon then that channel will survive and the creator can make a living. If they aren't popular enough or don't produce content that people want to support then that channel won't work.

 

When Digitiser came back a youtube channel there wasn't enough views to make it pay for Mr Biffo so he ran a patreon and he does get enough to support his channel and content. Is he grifting? I don't think so, he is producing content people want to watch and are happy to pay for albeit using patreon rather than pay per watch (which would be death to a content provider).

 

There will, no doubt, be "grifters" but I would suggest if their content isn't good enough for its audience they will fail. Most of the youtube channels I follow that have patreons produce good content and I have no issue with them making a living from their content.

[ulala]

Until they guilt their audience into keeping up their payments.

 

How many times have we seen that in the retro community?

[Anne Summers]

3 hours ago, JPickford said:

Or building niche x niche businesses with no hope of success.  Everyone gets paid!

 

You think people shouldn't even try then? Do you think we should go back to the days when if people wanted to watch some pre-recorded televisual entertainment at 7.30pm on a Tuesday night they had the choice of EastEnders or Corrie?

 

2 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

 

How many times have we seen that in the retro community?

 

I don't know - enlighten me?

I've supported a load of retro stuff on Patreon and Kickstarter and whatever over the years and never once felt guilted into it. 

I wonder if you got burned by something like Vega+ or similar (which is a completely different proposition than ongoing content like Clipper or Ian is talking about) which us what's given you a very negative perception of the scene?

[JPickford]

2 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

 

You think people shouldn't even try then? Do you think we should go back to the days when if people wanted to watch some pre-recorded televisual entertainment at 7.30pm on a Tuesday night they had the choice of EastEnders or Corrie?

 

 

Not all.  I just think it's fair game to criticise.  This isn't someone trying to make a living from their creative output (like making videos).  It's someone starting a business and asking for free money to start get it going.

[K]

I don't think there's any issue with asking for donations from people, provided it's made abundantly clear that's what they are doing - they're not getting a product, they're not getting a share in the ownership or the revenue, and that they're not getting anything more than the knowledge that they're helping someone out. With niche products like retrogaming stuff, the goodwill of the community is the only reason that some things exist, and donating to a Patreon or a Kickstarter is about as literal an expression of goodwill as you can get.

 

Obviously, these platforms will be home to pointless / cynical attempts to get funding, and some (most) of these proposals will be doomed. But if people go on with their eyes open to the risk (or rather, the certainty that their money is not going to be returned in any form), then that seems OK to me. 

[SeanR]

6 hours ago, ianinthefuture said:

What world do you live in where that's possible for people making videos or most other creative things on the internet? Even most newspapers can't charge people to access their stuff online.

 

The entire model has been broken for decades. Blaming individuals who decide to make some stuff - and try to get some money out of it - is hilariously off-target.

Doesn’t that kind of prove my point though?

 

also we’re talking about subpar content, and begging. Expecting something for nothing.

 

almost as if some people ruined it for everyone else

[Clipper]

2 minutes ago, SeanR said:

Doesn’t that kind of prove my point though?

 

also we’re talking about subpar content, and begging. Expecting something for nothing.

 

almost as if some people ruined it for everyone else

only if other people are daft enough to tar all creators/patreons with the same brush and refer to them all as grifters/beggers.

 

 

[SeanR]

5 minutes ago, Clipper said:

only if other people are daft enough to tar all creators/patreons with the same brush and refer to them all as grifters/beggers.

 

 

no one’s talking about “all creators/patreons”.  
 

only the ones in the thread. 
 

it’s not my fault some people have a chip on their shoulder about how their chosen creative medium is viewed,  when it’s being denigrated by people watching people producing low hanging fruit from the most common denominators, and then literally begging for money.

 

it’s about ethics in the uk retro gaming YouTube scene, actually…

 

 

Edited March 28 by SeanR

[Clipper]