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Immortality *spoilers*


Stanley
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I think we need this thread now that people are playing and completing the game, as it’s just to difficult to discuss anything without it potentially being a spoiler. 
 

I saw the credits roll but it made me feel as though the game, or ‘The One’ was actively stopping me from finding out more. That ending is a bit special though. Took me a while to realise what was going on even. 
 

So I don’t know exactly what happened to Marissa, but Carl

Spoiler

Was shot dead

On set, I think? 
 

I still feel like I’ve loads to uncover. 
 

Loved Candy Says, that was a stand out moment for me, absolutely destroying. 

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Marissa was

 

Spoiler

burned in a chair

 

One thing that isn't actually clear to me is what triggers the credits. I found all three deaths (Carl, the director and Marissa) and lots of other things but I kept browsing clips seeing the same black and white ones about different things (the great war, etc).

 

Then I went back to the browse screens and the end triggered. Maybe I'd finished 30 minutes earlier but didn't know.

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I still haven’t found out what happened to Marissa. Should I just concentrate on her clips now? I found out what happened to Carl though but it’s early days and I’m obsessed with those 

Spoiler

two ‘demons’ and trying to piece together how they are influencing the actors.

Someone in the main thread mentioned that the years in which the films were made is a spoiler but I’ve no idea why.

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Just now, sofasurfer said:

I still haven’t found out what happened to Marissa. Should I just concentrate on her clips now? I found out what happened to Carl though but it’s early days and I’m obsessed with those 

  Reveal hidden contents

two ‘demons’ and trying to piece together how they are influencing the actors.

Someone in the main thread mentioned that the years in which the films were made is a spoiler but I’ve no idea why.

The years difference is that.

Spoiler

Thirty years have elapsed yet Marissa looks exactly the same age, and no one is mentioning it. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Stanley said:

The years difference is that.

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Thirty years have elapsed yet Marissa looks exactly the same age, and no one is mentioning it. 

 

Right, there’s me trying to guess the significance of the years when it was something obvious.

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1 hour ago, thesnwmn said:

Marissa was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

burned in a chair

 

One thing that isn't actually clear to me is what triggers the credits. I found all three deaths (Carl, the director and Marissa) and lots of other things but I kept browsing clips seeing the same black and white ones about different things (the great war, etc).

 

Then I went back to the browse screens and the end triggered. Maybe I'd finished 30 minutes earlier but didn't know.

Was 

Spoiler

She actually burned in the chair?? I took that part to be some movie stunt as "Marissa" in the clip is very obviously a dummy. Her face has no features and she doesn't move an inch. You can clearly see its a dummy as it burns and you reverse / slow down etc. There was no indication to me that we are meant to think that it was actually her in that chair. 

 

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Just now, Skull Commander said:

Was 

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She actually burned in the chair?? I took that part to be some movie stunt as "Marissa" in the clip is very obviously a dummy. Her face has no features and she doesn't move an inch. You can clearly see its a dummy as it burns and you reverse / slow down etc. There was no indication to me that we are meant to think that it was actually her in that chair. 

 

 

You're right about all thst. But the achievement is tied to that scene.

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Spoiler

Yes it is her as in the preceding “scene” Marissa collapses at the bar and it turns out her co star is the other fallen angel/Adam  that was cremated when Carl died. 
He managed to return in a new body and she/eve asks for the same thing to be done. 

 

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Its so confusing. So in that first scene when Marissa first walks in for audition and you rewind it and the older lady with blonde hair then walks in and also states she is Marissa, wtf is that all about.

 

I thought the whole game was going to be about #metoo movement!

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24 minutes ago, Mortis said:
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Yes it is her as in the preceding “scene” Marissa collapses at the bar and it turns out her co star is the other fallen angel/Adam  that was cremated when Carl died. 
He managed to return in a new body and she/eve asks for the same thing to be done. 

 

Ahh! I don't think I had seen the scene before. 

 

Question. In my limited playthrough I didn't fully understand the mechanics of the game. Do the clips you uncover appear in order ?

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1 minute ago, Skull Commander said:

Question. In my limited playthrough I didn't fully understand the mechanics of the game. Do the clips you uncover appear in order ?

 

I'm not sure. I'm actually interested to see what s speed run looks like. Start to credits.

 

How much do you have to see/do?

 

Is there an element of how long you've been playing or what clips you already have for clicking on a face say to take you to specific important scene? Or is it always the exact same link?

 

Basically, I wonder how tightly the game  experience and pace is actually curated.

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One thing I barely have a clue about is how to organise clips, if you even can. They seem to be in order mostly anyway. I didn’t use the favourite function.

 

One thing I thought. What if you delete all of those scenes, would anything happen? 

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2 hours ago, Stanley said:

One thing I barely have a clue about is how to organise clips, if you even can. They seem to be in order mostly anyway. I didn’t use the favourite function.

 

One thing I thought. What if you delete all of those scenes, would anything happen? 

 

There looks to be a filter (top left) that changes the order and I thought one of them puts them chronologically.

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Not sure how anybody could play this for more than an hr or so and not get what the story is about. It doesn’t so much as hit you over the head with its themes as constantly bludgeon you in the face with them! It’s not subtle at all.
 

Spoiler

It’s about how women are unfairly depicted. The end.

 

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5 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

Not sure how anybody could play this for more than an hr or so and not get what the story is about. It doesn’t so much as hit you over the head with its themes as constantly bludgeon you in the face with them! It’s not subtle at all.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

It’s about how women are unfairly depicted. The end.

 

I think that it’s definitely a theme but it’s not all that it’s about, I mean not for me it isn’t anyway. 
 

At the moment for me it’s still about the main mystery of what happened to Marissa, and how. 

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28 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I think that it’s definitely a theme but it’s not all that it’s about, I mean not for me it isn’t anyway. 
 

At the moment for me it’s still about the main mystery of what happened to Marissa, and how. 


Its basically the whole story!

 

Spoiler

From the Bible and books, to art, to film, to music, to video games (including Immortality).......women are depicted unfairly.


If you’re looking for a more straight forward and basic narrative then it’ll be pretty naff, if there is one at all, and will probably still be open to interpretation anyway.
 

Spoiler

She was possessed by an Immortal entity. The end.

She made a deal with the devil and lost. The end.

She faked her death. The end.

She escaped from the limelight. The end.

She never really existed she’s just a video game character. The end.

 

Pour over the footage for long enough and you could probably make anything fit. 


 

Like I’ve said a few times, this is a massive David Lynch knock off. It understands and copies.the superficial stuff but can’t possibly ever copy the core of what makes his films so great, as it’s not David Lynch himself. You can write a song that superficially sounds like the Beatles but it’s not the Beatles. What’s really missing is the originality, which is the core of the talent and what makes truly great art.

 

If people like this and they haven’t done already, they should check out Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. Very clearly the makers of this game have........probably a bit too much! 😂

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6 minutes ago, CrichStand said:


Its basically the whole story!

 

  Hide contents

From the Bible and books, to art, to film, to music, to video games (including Immortality).......women are depicted unfairly.


If you’re looking for a more straight forward and basic narrative then it’ll be pretty naff, if there is one at all, and will probably still be open to interpretation anyway.
 

  Hide contents

She was possessed by an Immortal entity. The end.

She made a deal with the devil and lost. The end.

She faked her death. The end.

She escaped from the limelight. The end.

She never really existed she’s just a video game character. The end.

 

Pour over the footage for long enough and you could probably make anything fit. 


 

Like I’ve said a few times, this is a massive David Lynch knock off. It understands and copies.the superficial stuff but can’t possibly ever copy the core of what makes his films so great, as it’s not David Lynch himself. You can write a song that superficially sounds like the Beatles but it’s not the Beatles. What’s really missing is the originality, which is the core of the talent and what makes truly great art.

 

If people like this and they haven’t done already, they should check out Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. Very clearly the makers of this game have........probably a bit too much! 😂

 

The game is co-written by the man who was original writer of Wild at Heart and the screenwriter for Lost Highway.

 

Also the irony of "pour over the footage and anything will fit" just before your hagiography of David Lynch...

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Just now, Ravern said:

 

The game is co-written by the man who was original writer of Wild at Heart and the screenwriter for Lost Highway.

 

Also the irony of "pour over the footage and anything will fit" just before your hagiography of David Lynch...


Yeah, I know that. And? The game very clearly knocks off some off David Lynch’s trademarks that have nothing to do with Barry Gifford and knocks off Lynch’s films that Barry Gifford wasn’t in anyway involved with. What’s the point you’re making?

 

Where’s the irony? Lynch uses the structure of the Wizard of Oz and dreamworlds in his best films, which allows loads of weird arty shit but also allows a straight up narrative that links it all together. Works on both levels. I don’t think this does. This constantly smashes you over the head with its main theme and its linear narrative could fit on the back of a fag packet and is sub Twilight Zone material. 
 

If people enjoy it and think it’s good then fair enough. But calling it a masterpiece, with incredible depth and a new frontier for video game storytelling etc is more than a bit of a stretch. Each to their own.

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52 minutes ago, LeighCb said:

You seem determined to undermine this release using critism and spoilers you have read elsewhere on the internet. You have barley played it and have clearly played it wrong. 

 


Not sure if serious? Either way. 🤣🤣🤣 

 

I’ve played it for the best part of 10hrs. For the most part I’ve really not enjoyed it but, I can still see it’s positives, such as the rewind mechanic, which is really cool. However it doesn’t have legs, and gets old pretty quickly and is nowhere near enough to carry the game. I also like the end sequence, which was really nice. Don’t like how stuff is signposted and the Point and Click style controls on this, as it makes the game feel even more “on rails”, which is the main problem with interactive films anyway. Telling Lies worked better IMO on pretty much every level. The only difference is this has a narrative that is open to interpretation and uses a lot of metaphors or leaves enough bits and pieces to make the player/viewer feel there is an overall definitive story. 
 

Finally just seen the credits roll. My final take is (including what happened to Marissa)......

 

Spoiler

The battle of the sexes. Men and women need to overcome their weaknesses and get along with each other in order to survive.

 

The male spirit/entity gets killed by the female spirit/entity and vice versa. This keeps happening through time. I guess you can either view that as actual immortal entities possessing people etc or as just the nature/spirit of all males and females.

 

Marrisa was poisoned at the bar and died. She was killed and then burnt by the male spirit entity or the male natural spirit inside the woman (then getting into gender issues and stuff) with long brown hair. Not sure what her name is. Basically that’s what happened to Marissa. She was poisoned/murdered then her body was disposed of, either to kill the Immortal or to just dispose of her body depending on how you interpret it.

Backs up what I was saying. You can watch the clips and get a different interpretation even with the main narrative. Thing is even with all this interpretation, which is probably the best part of the “game”, I still don’t think the story is any good or that the game as a whole is any good. Weird one!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CrichStand said:


Its basically the whole story!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

From the Bible and books, to art, to film, to music, to video games (including Immortality).......women are depicted unfairly.


If you’re looking for a more straight forward and basic narrative then it’ll be pretty naff, if there is one at all, and will probably still be open to interpretation anyway.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

She was possessed by an Immortal entity. The end.

She made a deal with the devil and lost. The end.

She faked her death. The end.

She escaped from the limelight. The end.

She never really existed she’s just a video game character. The end.

 

Pour over the footage for long enough and you could probably make anything fit. 


 

Like I’ve said a few times, this is a massive David Lynch knock off. It understands and copies.the superficial stuff but can’t possibly ever copy the core of what makes his films so great, as it’s not David Lynch himself. You can write a song that superficially sounds like the Beatles but it’s not the Beatles. What’s really missing is the originality, which is the core of the talent and what makes truly great art.

 

If people like this and they haven’t done already, they should check out Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. Very clearly the makers of this game have........probably a bit too much! 😂

Imagine dealing with such a lightweight subject as the feminine gaze, in a game, pffft.

 

Also, and I think it has already been pointed out to you in this thread, and I definitely mentioned it in the other thread, but the makers of this game actually fucking wrote the films you are referring to, or at least one of them did. 
 

But you say it isn’t original, can you point me to another game that is anything like Immortality? 

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16 minutes ago, CrichStand said:


Not sure if serious? Either way. 🤣🤣🤣 

 

I’ve played it for the best part of 10hrs. For the most part I’ve really not enjoyed it but, I can still see it’s positives, such as the rewind mechanic, which is really cool. However it doesn’t have legs, and gets old pretty quickly and is nowhere near enough to carry the game. I also like the end sequence, which was really nice. Don’t like how stuff is signposted and the Point and Click style controls on this, as it makes the game feel even more “on rails”, which is the main problem with interactive films anyway. Telling Lies worked better IMO on pretty much every level. The only difference is this has a narrative that is open to interpretation and uses a lot of metaphors or leaves enough bits and pieces to make the player/viewer feel there is an overall definitive story. 
 

Finally just seen the credits roll. My final take is (including what happened to Marissa)......

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The battle of the sexes. Men and women need to overcome their weaknesses and get along with each other in order to survive.

 

The male spirit/entity gets killed by the female spirit/entity and vice versa. This keeps happening through time. I guess you can either view that as actual immortal entities possessing people etc or as just the nature/spirit of all males and females.

 

Marrisa was poisoned at the bar and died. She was killed and then burnt by the male spirit entity or the male natural spirit inside the woman (then getting into gender issues and stuff) with long brown hair. Not sure what her name is. Basically that’s what happened to Marissa. She was poisoned/murdered then her body was disposed of, either to kill the Immortal or to just dispose of her body depending on how you interpret it.

Backs up what I was saying. You can watch the clips and get a different interpretation even with the main narrative. Thing is even with all this interpretation, which is probably the best part of the “game”, I still don’t think the story is any good or that the game as a whole is any good. Weird one!

 

 

 

 

I'm going without spoilers given the thread title.

 

At one point the male entity, I think after being killed by the female entity in the subverted version of the Marissa killing Carl scene, says something along the lines of her never having watched him die before, so I'm not sure about the constant killing of each other.

 

I don't think the poisoning in the final scene theory is correct. There are earlier clips from the 2OE shoot showing Marissa having nosebleeds, as well as the one where both her and John pass out at the same time.

 

Likewise it being the final disposable of her body. After Amy burns her, the body seems to fall apart like it is a doll e.g. it is another construct that has temporarily held that spirit after being fed upon. I think the female entity is now moving on. I'm not sure, however, whether this is having still failed to find fulfilment in yet another muse/model for an artist role or whether her co-authorship as John/Marissa combined gave her some satisfaction.

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1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Imagine dealing with such a lightweight subject as the feminine gaze, in a game, pffft.

 

Also, and I think it has already been pointed out to you in this thread, and I definitely mentioned it in the other thread, but the makers of this game actually fucking wrote the films you are referring to, or at least one of them did. 
 

But you say it isn’t original, can you point me to another game that is anything like Immortality? 


Mate, Barry Gifford wrote the book Wild at Heart. David Lynch adapted that book in his own style as a film. Barry Gifford also co-wrote Lost Highway with David Lynch. That’s it! He didn’t have anything to do with David Lynch’s other films or other work or on Lynch’s style.

 

This is clearly influenced and knocks off David Lynch’s other stuff which Barry Gifford didn’t work on. Glad that’s cleared up!
 

Can I point you to another game like Immortality? Yes I can - Telling Lies and Her Story. I think Telling Lies is better than this but I’d say this is better than Her Story.

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4 minutes ago, CrichStand said:


Mate, Barry Gifford wrote the book Wild at Heart. David Lynch adapted that book in his own style as a film. Barry Gifford also co-wrote Lost Highway with David Lynch. That’s it! He didn’t have anything to do with David Lynch’s other films or other work or on Lynch’s style.

 

This is clearly influenced and knocks off David Lynch’s other stuff which Barry Gifford didn’t work on. Glad that’s cleared up!
 

Can I point you to another game like Immortality? Yes I can - Telling Lies and Her Story. I think Telling Lies is better than this but I’d say this is better than Her Story.

I think you know what I’m getting at, Barry Gifford was clearly hired for his association with Lynch, and yeah I’d agree therefore that Immortality shares those influences, but I don’t see a problem with that, quite the opposite in fact, I love it. 
 

And would it be fair to say then that Sam Barlow makes original games, of which Immortality is one? It also uses methods and mechanics which were not present in his earlier works, and, as far as I know, any other games. 
 

I mean either way I get that you have bounced off it, but trying to tell other people that they are wrong is never going to get you anywhere, especially for a game which you admit is open to interpretation and highly experimental. 

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Something I admire about this from the very start was basically how they use the Metroid technique of giving you everything you need to understand the game during the tutorial and then take it all away once it actually begins. But instead of power ups it's film clips.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ravern said:

 

I'm going without spoilers given the thread title.

 

At one point the male entity, I think after being killed by the female entity in the subverted version of the Marissa killing Carl scene, says something along the lines of her never having watched him die before, so I'm not sure about the constant killing of each other.

 

I don't think the poisoning in the final scene theory is correct. There are earlier clips from the 2OE shoot showing Marissa having nosebleeds, as well as the one where both her and John pass out at the same time.

 

Likewise it being the final disposable of her body. After Amy burns her, the body seems to fall apart like it is a doll e.g. it is another construct that has temporarily held that spirit after being fed upon. I think the female entity is now moving on. I'm not sure, however, whether this is having still failed to find fulfilment in yet another muse/model for an artist role or whether her co-authorship as John/Marissa combined gave her some satisfaction.


If we’re going no spoilers......


I just took the “you’ve never watched me die before” to be literal. Like I say, ultimately I think the story comes down to how each person interprets it and I’m just going on having watched 10hrs of footage most of which I can barely remember! 😂 The end theme song seemed to basically explain everything that happened and tied it together. Maybe I’m wrong and watching every bit of footage will reveal something more definitive? You’ve made some good points!
 

In terms of Marissa - we see the olive in the glass (forbidden fruit) she takes it then blood pours out of her head. The male spirit in the females body then watches her die. Either way Marissa seems to die at that point. The woman/male spirit then burns the Marissa dummy. The female spirit/entity had said the only way she could die was by being burned, which was also an obvious reference to witches, and books/art etc. The male spirit also says something like “an apple won’t work this time”. 

 

At every turn there’s stuff you can interpret in different ways that may be linked or might not be linked at all. It taps into human nature and the human brain and needing to make sense out of chaos. Again, this is one of David Lynch’s trademarks. I’d need to look through the footage again to check stuff but, that ending song seems to be very clear. I also bet money that if I looked over the footage again I’d get another theory! All of this is far more enjoyable than the actual game itself though.

 

 

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