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M+K Vs controller. FIGHT!!


Opinionated Ham Scarecrow
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I don’t have a mouse or keyboard for any of my consoles (well, I have keyboards for my DC and DS) so I’ve no choice but to play games with a game controller rather than a typewriter.

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5 minutes ago, deKay said:

I don’t have a mouse or keyboard for any of my consoles (well, I have keyboards for my DC and DS) so I’ve no choice but to play games with a game controller rather than a typewriter.

 

Today, I learnt the DS had a keyboard accessory. That's rad.

 

Kinda wanted that GameCube controller/keyboard horror that spawned for PSO, and the chatpad for 360 controllers. Pretty glad I didn't pick up more physical tat in hindsight, tbh.

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30 minutes ago, SozzlyJoe said:

It's funny how WASD has moved from a super awkward compromise to something actually fetishised as the ultimate in control. How else to explain mad stuff like this?

 

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I used to use WAD and X for back with my thumb hooked under my hand to press X. I think because it mirrored using the number pad arrows that a lot of older DOS games used. One time I was called out on it by a friend who showed me WASD and I said, no, WADX is better because what if you need to press forward and backward at the same time? 

 

And I actually said this to him in a haha, you fucking idiot, you haven't thought this through way. After another second or two of thought I realised, no, it was clearly me who hadn't thought this through.

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I find a pad far more tactile and therefore enjoyable than pressing keys, so it's controller all the way for action RPGs/first or third-person shooters or action adventures.

 

Mouse & keyboard has its place, mainly older RPGs/strategy games etc, so both have their place.

 

I won't dogmatically stick to a particular control method because I prefer it though, each game is a case-by-case basis.

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Of course, it is nothing to the wonder of the Spectrum Sinclair joysticks, which mapped themselves to the number keys, so player 1 was 1-5 and player 2 was 6-0. The cherry on top was the fact the keyboard design meant that it could only register a certain number of keypresses at once (especially ones on the same row which would interfere directly) rendering all two player games unplayable. True genius.

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1 hour ago, LaveDisco said:

This is the wrong question. The real question is Couch vs Desk. And Couch wins - obviously. 
 

KB&M on a couch feels wrong, and so controller is better. 

 

My desk chair is much more comfortable than my couch. If I need ultimate gaming comfort after a long day then it's Steam deck in bed all the way.

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14 hours ago, Strafe said:

They should make a mouse and half game pad thing so you still have analogue control on movement etc. They probably already have though and it’s probably not very good which is why I guess I haven’t heard of it.

Razer have some Tartarus thing that's basically half a keyboard with analog keys and a bad analog stick on the side. It's €150 though. 

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I prefer controllers for FPSs. M&K may be objectively better (faster, more precise, less need for auto-aim assistance), but I prefer the sensation of aiming and shooting with the controller. The combination of thumb and index finger motions to move, aim, and shoot on a pad is, IMO, more satisfying than the combination of finger, wrist, and forearm motions used for those actions with K&M.

 

I've probably said this before, but my preference for control pads is because every FPS I've played in the past ~25 years has been played in the hope that it'll, to some extent, recreate the feeling I had when I first played GoldenEye, and the hand motions and sensations are a very important part of that.

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For the most part, I do controller for single player stuff, and M+K if there's a competitive element - especially if that competitive element needs me to click heads. There are some obvious exceptions; I wouldn't play Civilization with a controller if I could possibly avoid it.

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22 minutes ago, Opinionated Ham Scarecrow said:

If I need ultimate gaming comfort after a long day then it's Steam deck in bed all the way.

 

Steam Deck hivemind out of control.

 

(It's also completely correct)

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Different controls are suited to different things, but I'd usually favour a controller. The exceptions are the few genres that really need a mouse and keyboard, like strategy games and CRPGs, but I'd usually stick to a controller for everything else. I don't really play competitive multiplayer games so reaction speed doesn't factor into it for me.

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I finally made a proper go of m&k a few years ago, after I fucked my hands up playing Destiny 2 on controller.

 

Turns out I'm equally shite using either method, so now that my hands have recovered a bit, I just use the controller again.

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3 hours ago, Popo said:

Mouse and keyboard naturally offer more precision for things like first person shooters, but I can’t use a mouse and keyboard while reclining on the sofa, so controller it is, while RTS games I shall play no more.

 

Mouse offers more precision, the keyboard offers less - its only ‘better’ as a cheating device with keybinds.

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34 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

Mouse offers more precision, the keyboard offers less - its only ‘better’ as a cheating device with keybinds.

People require cheating, aka auto aim, to be able to play shooting games on a controller at all. 

 

It is crazy how much of the aiming the computer does for you when using a controller. I was playing Assassin's Creed Origins and even there it was auto tracking a target with no input from me. 

 

Watch some videos on how completely insane the auto aim is in CoD War zone. You can be flashed by an opponent, your character unable to see, and the computer will move your crosshair to the opponents head so all you have to do is pull the trigger. Why you even should have to pull the trigger is beyond me, if the computer is doing so much already it might as well complete the action. 

 

Yet you consider using keybinds cheating? At least with K+M I am the one controlling my character not the computer. 

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Generally games to tend to suit one input method better than the other. For games that require precision aim, like CS:GO or Valorant a pad is no good. But the Apex competitive scene and high ranks are now largely inhabited by controller players, as auto-aim can make up for fidelity in a lot of faced paced competitive shooters. Especially in close range combat. It's been a slow, inexorable takeover, so much so that previously well known MnK players have started to switch. 

 

Now, most top tier Apex teams will run a controller fragger and one or two MnK players. If you watch someone like ChaoticMuch or Gild beaming people on a pad, you can see that ultimately as long as there's some form of autoaim and a player with 100s of hours of practice under their belt then pads can certainly contest MnK. Of course, Cronus' and Strike Packs also exist that muddy the water somewhat in the general population, but it is interesting. I do swap between the two input methods in Apex depending on whether I feel like tap strafing or melting people at 2m. 

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That's the issue though isn't it? Without autoaim no one would be running controller in those setups. 

 

A control system that requires the computer to help you aim is fundementaly flawed imo. Controller is absolutely the best way for certain genres but anything that requires aiming is better on K+M. 

 

Unless you have the computer do if for you.

 

The reason people are switching to controller isn't because you can match K+M it is because the autoaim has become so intrusive and controlling that no human can match it. 

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While I appreciate that if someone's looking to be tested on their aiming skills, less computer assistance is preferable - I think "the computer is aiming so it's cheating" is an overly reductive viewpoint, not least considering the myriad of other ways games do things for the player, but nobody within their right mind thinks we should pump tiny little leg controllers just to be able to run around.

 

A lot of FPS games use a degree of auto-aim on a controller. This might be a concern if the games were nothing more than static shooting galleries where the only skill required was better aim, or if that's the only aspect that really gets you up in the morning, but there's plenty more on offer. 

 

Fuck, even Doom was about more than just pointing and shooting as quickly as you can.

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7 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

I'd watch a Street Fighter tournament using M+K only, could be fun. A throwback to playing Soul Calibur using the fishing rod.

 

7 hours ago, Qazimod said:

 

Fighting game fans have seen keyboards pulled out during tournament streams. :) 

 

The keyboard player below is playing Karin, the character on the right in the blue dress.

 

 

Isn't there a bit of fuss at the mo because some people are using controllers in tournaments with buttons instead of a stick? Essentially just ten button keyboards, sort of thing? Evidently it means you can queue inputs and go from away to towards (or vice versa or some combo of up and down) much, much quick.

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I don't think auto aim in an FPS is any more of a "flaw" than a footy game interpreting who you want to pass to instead of just sending the ball in the exact direction you're pushing the stick, or input buffering in a fighting game.

 

It's just a different way of translating input. A tool that developers can use to get a specific feel.

 

Having the precision of m+k and a good few years before consoles could really handle the genre took FPSs in a very specific direction built around precise twitch aiming, which was cool. But 90s PC gaming being 90s PC gaming, that became the "correct" way to do it, instead of just one way to do it. 

 

This isn't a pad vs. M+k things either. As I love to bring up endlessly, Quake always had incredibly generous auto aim as default. Something that works hand in hand with the fast movement speed and the loose Ash-shotgunning-Deadites feel of its gunplay to make Quake feel like Quake.

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5 minutes ago, ScouserInExile said:

 

Isn't there a bit of fuss at the mo because some people are using controllers in tournaments with buttons instead of a stick? Essentially just ten button keyboards, sort of thing? Evidently it means you can queue inputs and go from away to towards (or vice versa or some combo of up and down) much, much quick.

 

Yeah, keyboards and all-button controllers are considered better than fightsticks or standard pads because, depending on how the game handles simultaneous, opposing directions, you can fire off flash kick and instantly be charging again since "up" takes priority and you never let go of the down-back.

 

In Street Fighter V you can fire off a Critical Art faster on a keyboard or all-button controller since holding the "forward" button then tapping down+back together twice is considered valid, while pad or stick players have to perform two quarter-circle forward motions.

 

Anyway on topic pad is better than mouse and keyboard because it is more fun.

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4 hours ago, Mallet said:

People require cheating, aka auto aim, to be able to play shooting games on a controller at all. 

 

It is crazy how much of the aiming the computer does for you when using a controller. I was playing Assassin's Creed Origins and even there it was auto tracking a target with no input from me. 

 

Watch some videos on how completely insane the auto aim is in CoD War zone. You can be flashed by an opponent, your character unable to see, and the computer will move your crosshair to the opponents head so all you have to do is pull the trigger. Why you even should have to pull the trigger is beyond me, if the computer is doing so much already it might as well complete the action. 

 

Yet you consider using keybinds cheating? At least with K+M I am the one controlling my character not the computer. 

 

This comes up all the time with PC nerds esp on Fortnite - they then play with a pad and can’t hit shit…….I wish it did what you claim it did as when im playing against script kids on pc id beat them everytime as I wouldn’t need to aim to compete!

 

Keybind scripts is cheating, same as lowering the textures to a point there is no foliage in the game (or smoke / flash in war zone), its not comparable to auto aim that doesn’t work in the way you say at all - it will snap closer to an opponent but thats people gaming the system and not how it works as default .

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