What turned out to be pure hype?

[amc]

I had a Smokey Mountain dirt track jpg with the Impreza Rally car kicking up dust from some pre release Gran Turismo 3 media as my old PC desktop image for years, even after GT3 had actually came out and I was playing it. I'd love looking at that in-game image as it looked insanely next gen. I downloaded an actual race video clip with that car and that track too, thank god for Telewest 512kbps broadband.

 

I was counting down the seconds for the game's release day, wasn't disappointed.

 

I also downloaded a JSRF video that was doing the rounds at the same time as the above GT3 image and video clip. That desktop background and "The Concept of Love" song from the JSRF vid are forever burnt into my memory. Good times.

 

GT3 was leaps ahead of any previous graphical fidelity in a racing game, at home or down the arcade, probably a contender for the best graphics of any game, at the time. Still looks good now.

 

EDIT* Just took the car and track mentioned above for a spin in PCSX2, those assets used by Polyphony sure scale up nice, and the colour grading and lighting are still out of this world. Looks incredible upscaled to 4K. Plays pretty dang great too.

[Corrogate]

On 02/11/2022 at 10:07, Mr. Gerbik said:

Ah I remember edge salivating over 100% genuine honest guv in-game screenshots like this one:

 

A PS2 sandbox game

 

Unrelated but I was looking round south London on Google Maps last year for reasons I can't remember and actually ended up on the street where the demo shootout takes place. Noticed they use the location in Lockstock couple of months back, too.

[ScouserInExile]

34 minutes ago, sbrandon111 said:

I always thought that the Dreamcast failed because EA never really got on board with it and never released Fifa, Madden etc on it. It only then appealed to the “hardcore” arcade type gamer.

I loved it.

There's not really a single reason. It was a catalogue of failures, when you look at it. 

 

It was badly marketed and even branded (if you go back and look at all the press and marketing, Sega dropped "Sega" from the naming. All the previous consoles were the "SEGA something™", this was just Dreamcast).

 

There was a general lack of third party support and, as you've said, no EA, and games sell consoles.

 

There were problems with the Sega brand already, this coming hot on the heels of the 32X and Saturn debacles, which meant Sega were pretty much skint.

 

No dvd player.

 

Price.

 

Problems with the controller - it was uncomfortable and one analogue stick short.

 

I also think the types of games weren't really what gamers wanted - they were pretty much all arcade games when people wanted Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy.

 

A pretty poor launch lineup (especially in Japan and Europe) that didn't do much to distinguish it from the previous generation. And not just day one titles, but all the "coming soon" titles.

 

And, of course, there was the looming shadow of the PlayStation 2. Given what a game changer, in every sense of the phrase, the PS1 was and Sony's promises of "bigger, better, faster, more", it was always going to struggle. Not helped by there being a new Nintendo console on its way. Though the DC was dead by the time the GC came out, as illustrated by one of its launch titles being a Sonic game and another being the game a lot of people remember the DC fondly for - Crazy Taxi.

 

I've also seen a lot of people say piracy was a major factor as well, with a major magazine sticking what was essentially a piracy enabling disk on their front cover. But I've also seen a lot of (the same) people say that one of the reasons the PS1 was so popular was piracy. So swings and roundabouts.

 

It's funny, I really want to like the DC. I got one for Christmas in 2000, despite having done PS2 testing for Sony earlier that year and seeing what it was capable of. I still have it. But there just wasn't anything on there to hold my attention once the PS2 started to establish itself. Shame.

[SMD]

1 hour ago, sbrandon111 said:

I always thought that the Dreamcast failed because EA never really got on board with it and never released Fifa, Madden etc on it. It only then appealed to the “hardcore” arcade type gamer.

I loved it.

 

NFL2K was better than Madden and FIFA was/is shit. Not having Pro Evo really hurt it compared to the PS1 and PS2 but Sega were in the toilet anyway, nothing was going to save them short of the DC doing PS2 numbers (impossible after the 32X and Saturn) 

[K]

I don 't think piracy was an issue with the Dreamcast. The PS1 must be one of the most-pirated consoles ever, and it did just fine - it got big right around the time when CD burners were starting to become accessible to the mainstream, you couldn't realistically hack cartridge-based systems, and the consoles that came after were at least a bit more secure. The DC was hacked wide open, but only when it was effectively already dead. If I recall correctly, the hack came around the time that Sega were bundling a DVD player with the console, which was an utter tragedy. It would have been less humiliating to bundle a PS2 with it.

[JamesC]

My first experience with the Dreamcast was on a demo unit in the Great Yarmouth branch of Blockbuster video. I think it was a week or so before the console launch. 

I was excited to see it but the moment I got my hands on the controller I found it really uncomfortable to use. The demo unit was running Toy Commander. It's not a bad game but crap as a demo experience because it's quite difficult to control and quite empty. I remember just flying a plane around a house not knowing what I was supposed to do.

It totally nullified any enthusiasm I had for the console.

[ScouserInExile]

39 minutes ago, K said:

Sega were bundling a DVD player with the console,

That's how I ended up getting a DC. My parents bought the bundle, I got the console, he got the DVD player.

 

There was a rumour around the EU PS2 launch that more DVDs were being bought with it than games. Though it had the huge advantage that people already had a stack of games for it, due to backwards compatibility (which is the testing I did for Sony in 2000).

[dataDave]

I imported mine in January 1999, a month or so after it launched. That year is one of my best ever in gaming. Nothing but a deluge of arcade-perfect ports and other things dusted on top. I had something like 20 games after just one year, it was insane.

[K]

43 minutes ago, ScouserInExile said:

That's how I ended up getting a DC. My parents bought the bundle, I got the console, he got the DVD player.

 

There was a rumour around the EU PS2 launch that more DVDs were being bought with it than games.

Makes sense - there weren’t that many games available at launch, but there were shedloads of DVDs. They would have been cheaper too. 

[SaintAnselm]

1 hour ago, SMD said:

 

NFL2K was better than Madden and FIFA was/is shit. Not having Pro Evo really hurt it compared to the PS1 and PS2 but Sega were in the toilet anyway, nothing was going to save them short of the DC doing PS2 numbers (impossible after the 32X and Saturn) 

NFL2K is still even now better than the latest Madden, which frankly is a complete joke considering the last one was released in 2004.

[Sumire]

3 hours ago, LowCostMonkey said:

 

 I remember reading about it at the time, 64BIT! - I was totally suckered in. I mean 64BIT! it had to be better than all the previous consoles. I used to go to HMV every lunch when I was at college to see if it was in stock yet. What an utter disappointment it ended up being.

[dumpster]

The Dreamcast did have a demo disk issue, but it's not as it was (widely) reported at the time. The demo disk allowed you to play imports but didn't allow piracy.  There was the Utopia boot disk, and quickly the hacker teams incorporated the tech onto the same disk as the game, so the game would apparently self boot.

 

I was a big fan of the Dreamcast but as a store manager I got it free.  I wonder how impressed I would have been playing the 5 minute bursts of Crazy Taxi if I'd paid £45 for it?

 

 

[SMD]

1 hour ago, SaintAnselm said:

NFL2K is still even now better than the latest Madden, which frankly is a complete joke considering the last one was released in 2004.

 

i didn't want to go that far because I don't play NFL games but I know how successful 2K was so obviously Sega sold them.

[Oh Danny Boy]

On 02/11/2022 at 11:28, kiroquai said:

Oh man, I remember feeling totally spoilt for choice with the PS2 launch! SSX, Tekken Tag, Timesplitters, Ridge Racer 5... yeah, loads of good stuff! PS2 didn't kill the Dreamcast, obviously. More like the final nail in a coffin SEGA had created themselves with 32X, Sega CD and Saturn.

Probably derailing the thread a bit but it was more due to the poor business decisions and the lack of co operation between SEGA America and Japan that hobbled the Dreamcast at launch, it was never a failure and sold well but never was going to sell enough to dig SEGA out of the financial black hole it was in especially being tarnished by SEGA’s past decisions. 

Mega CD never harmed SEGAs reputation, it was a disc based add on at a time when every hardware was expected to have a disc based add on, and every one did, at least in late development if it never got released. It was a luxury add on for the fmv game market. The main issue is that SEGA overloaded it with tech which it didn’t need therefore giving it a prohibitive price point. 
 

32X was a bit more damaging, a ridiculous add on to extend the MDs life when exploring chip options would have been more suitable especially as SEGA of America knew the Saturn was in development. 
 

The Saturn itself did very well in Japan. SEGA thought that 2D sprite scaling was the future (which did make far more visually appealing games) which disadvantaged it in the polygon crazy western market. Sega America could have pushed it as a second/alternative console once the PlayStation’s lead was inevitable (which wasn’t the case until ‘97), promoted it’s strengths and published many of the games that were left untranslated in Japan instead they inexplicably killed it off leaving SEGA with no market in the west. 
 

This is what hobbled the Dreamcast. SEGA had to fast forward the development of the Saturn’s successor to plug the losses they were now making in the west. They rushed the decision for its chipset, awarding the contact to a rival of a company  EA had invested in thus causing them to break their long standing relationship with SEGA. The cost of replacing the loss of EA sports brands with the SEGA 2K range was an unneeded.  SEGA had planned to build the Dreamcast around technology it had experimented with since the MD days, movie playback for example, a planned DVD drive for the Dreamcast was dropped early due to cost, online gaming was something SEGA had experimented with for years but they didn’t have the time to have it refined for the Dreamcast at launch. Probably most damaging was in their home market where the Saturn was hugely successful SEGA were forced to cut its lifespan short and alienate its user base. 

 

The Dreamcast was launched a year or two earlier than planned with technology that was scaled back due to the cost limitations at the time. At a time where having no market share in US/Europe meant that they were haemorrhaging money and had no core user base ready to adopt the new format.  The fact that the tech held its own  for so long with the PS2 and that it sold pretty well was a huge success even if it didn’t pull SEGA out of the red. 
 

Rather than SEGAs hardware tarnishing it’s name it was more SEGAs own business strategy. SEGA built many great franchises and IP but lacked a familiar set of core franchises, SEGA failed to build upon many of the franchises the developed in the MD era and rather than having ones that were synonymous with the brand they were more or less synonymous with the format. SEGA consistently failed to carry its IP from console to console and develop its best selling franchises. A SEGA that was tied to some loved and relatable characters and titles would have a pre  existing market ready for the Dreamcast. 
 

SEGA also gained a reputation for prematurely killing off its formats. The master system (outside Europe and South America), Mega CD, Game Gear, 32X and Saturn were all dropped early. Only the Megadrive was given a long lifespan. The more experienced gamer by the time the Dreamcast came would be wary of investing in a SEGA console. And they’d be right as the Dreamcast itself was killed early, right after SEGA promised to support it as a multi format publisher/ developer. 

Amongst this they were never going to compete with the successor to the hugely successful PlayStation with its hype train in full flow. 
 

Anyway I’m still playing new Dreamcast releases in 2022 such as Xenocider, Xeno Crisis and Intrepid Izzy long after the PS2 has long croaked.  Long live the Dreamcast!!!!

 

[Ry]

On 02/11/2022 at 00:00, Shimmyhill said:

Rise of the Robots

 

This. Always this for me. 

 

I think even in the dawn of the internet, nothing has ever topped this for hype. 

 

It was in magazines as a feature for months, heavily advertised everywhere, Brian May doing the music. 

 

Then it turned out to be one of the worst games ever made. I remember renting it from Global Video for SNES and being all excited. Then getting home and playing it for 30 mins and walking the two miles back to the video shop to hand it over in disgust. 

[dumpster]

One thing that I remember specifically about trying to promote the Dreamcast was that the strongest games were age restricted so we couldn't demonstrate Soul Caliber or Resident Evil CV, so you would see Toy Commander and Sonic on demo pods a lot.  Toy Commander remains one of my favourite games on the console but I remember having to offer people a blanket no quibble money back promise to persuade people to try it.  

 

And someone commented earlier that the PS2 may have started slow but later it get Metal Gear, Killzone, Rez, etc. Etc.  REZ? Really?

[Ry]

4 hours ago, LowCostMonkey said:

 

I sold my SNES and about 15 games so I could get a Jaguar. 

 

When I picked it up and started playing Doom, Alien Vs Predator and Tempest 2000 I thought it was a marvel and the best console ever. For a month. 

 

Saying that, to this day it's one of my favourite looking consoles. 

[Shimmyhill]

15 minutes ago, Ry said:

 

I sold my SNES and about 15 games so I could get a Jaguar. 

 

When I picked it up and started playing Doom, Alien Vs Predator and Tempest 2000 I thought it was a marvel and the best console ever. For a month. 

 

Saying that, to this day it's one of my favourite looking consoles. 

My mate bought one on launch, he had a student grant and blew the lot on scratch cards… eventually getting to the point where he could only afford the Jaguar and not the get rich quick plan involving buying the Jaguar and living for the student term….

 

No idea how he survived financially but I loved the Jag, T2K as a student under various influences was worth it alone! I even quite liked Cybermorph, Iron soldier and some of the non exclusive games at the time.

 

When I picked my own up much later on it wasn’t the best to be honest, T2K tho - still worth it but it was never my only machine!

 

Was it all hype tho, hmm - bit like the 3DO, failure as a console but had enough for me personally to have some love for them.

 

M2 tho.. all hype  

[Wiper]

1 hour ago, dumpster said:

I was a big fan of the Dreamcast but as a store manager I got it free.  I wonder how impressed I would have been playing the 5 minute bursts of Crazy Taxi if I'd paid £45 for it?

 

As someone who did pay full whack for Crazy Taxi, it remains one of my favourite games on the system. The core game was brilliant, and I definitely played it enough to justify the expense alone, but on top of that the Crazy Box was incredibly compelling — I spent weeks playing it before I finally completed it.

 

See also: Tech Romancer and its ridiculous array of unlocks via completing the various stories while achieving different (often hidden) goals to trigger different routes; Soul Calibur's campaign mode; or Virtua Tennis and its mini game collection. The DC's library was the pinnacle of arcade ports, not just because they were as technically impressive as the arcade versions, but because they really showed off how to expand the experience on home release.

 

(a lot of those approaches aren't dissimilar to the gradual unlocks that now typify GaaS and free to play models, albeit with much more generous or skill-based methodology, rather than pure grind. I miss them)

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, Ry said:

 

I sold my SNES and about 15 games so I could get a Jaguar. 

 

When I picked it up and started playing Doom, Alien Vs Predator and Tempest 2000 I thought it was a marvel and the best console ever. For a month. 

 

Saying that, to this day it's one of my favourite looking consoles. 

 

 

Is it because it's a console that also doubles as a receptical to pee into? 

😉

 

[Sarlaccfood]

 

[Floshenbarnical]

I remember eagerly awaiting Twilight Princess for the longest time and then being dismayed when I discovered that it was shit

[ScouserInExile]

2 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

 

Is it because it's a console that also doubles as a receptical to pee into? 

😉

 

I was going to make this exact reference. And find the dentist thing the use the Jaguar mould for.

[Kryptonian]

57 minutes ago, ScouserInExile said:

I was going to make this exact reference. And find the dentist thing the use the Jaguar mould for.

 

👌

[Jg15]

On the Dreamcast I remember Sega doing an offer through retailers where they offered a free DVD player with every Dreamcast purchased. An obvious attempt to try and counter the PS2 and its DVD drive.

 

To be fair the DVD player I got with my Dreamcast lasted a good 10 years, can't say the same for the console!

[Ry]

3 hours ago, Kryptonian said:

 

👌

 

Still looks brilliant.

[KriessG]

On 02/11/2022 at 13:12, The Mighty Ash said:

 

Sure, they're all great but it's been slim pickings since they released.  

Not according to my Quest library. If you’re specifically referring to PSVR then maybe, but you said VR.

[carlospie]

Immortality edge ten

[Strafe]

The Dreamcast failed because Sega’s marketing campaign had Robbie Williams on the adverts.

[Strafe]

I mean seriously, who signed off on this