Lost - The Full Series Thread

[toonfool]

The bit at the end where Desmond called Sayid by his name, is that because he was 'better' and he remembered everything (as he now had a constant) or was it just because he calmed down after he spoke to Penny?

For most of this episode, the Desmond we saw wasn't the one we know, but instead the one from 1996 experiencing time travel into his future, the viewer's present. Which is why he didn't know Sayid.

When Desmond was on the phone to Penny at the end (in 2004), that scene was intertwined with another, which had him walking away from her house (in 1996). That was because the time travel had been broken, past Desmond was back where he belonged and we could see them both 'at once'. Proof that he was back to being his normal self at the end.

[makkuwata]

For most of this episode, the Desmond we saw wasn't the one we know, but instead the one from 1996 experiencing time travel into his future, the viewer's present. Which is why he didn't know Sayid.

When Desmond was on the phone to Penny at the end (in 2004), that scene was intertwined with another, which had him walking away from her house (in 1996). That was because the time travel had been broken, past Desmond was back where he belonged and we could see them both 'at once'. Proof that he was back to being his normal self at the end.

...across a street!

I would be careful crossing the street if I were you.

[toonfool]

Bravo, sir!

[Goose]

Was Rousseau already pregnant on the boat before the island?

That might explain why she avoided radioactive/electromagnetic experiments that the other crew members would have participated in.

I was just going to post that - my wife said she'd not be affected because being pregnant she'd have steered well clear of radioactive/electromagnetic stuff (and peanuts) so stood less chance of being affected.

They crashed on the island - so assuming they'd been carrying out the experiments they may have crossed "the line" where Minikowski and the other guy got sick. Give it a few days on the island and the sickness has taken hold and bob's your uncle, they start dropping like flies. Perhaps Rousseau didn't know about the connection with the sickness being caused by the very experiments they were doing or had done.

Faraday didn't say there was a time limited as to when you'd have needed to be exposed so they could have done the experiments months ago (Surely Desmond was exposed about two months ago now?) and come to the island then been affected. Rousseau assumes it's something they caught from the island, but the island just caused it, it wasn't a virus or anything.

Thinking about Aaron for a second and the injections - The Others still didn't know what was killing the women/children during childbirth so perhaps they were trying something on Claire? They didn't really know what they were doing but figured it was worth a shot and if it worked then they'd have a solution. Was it ever proved that the injections saved Claire and the baby?

Where the motherfuck is the Rousseau flashback? They owe us!

[mr_rmg]

The writers have stated many times that Jack's father is dead.

Yea, but he *was* the guy in the chair in Jacob's hut a few eps back. (The Beginning of the End)

[Distinct muttering]

Its not inconceivable given the current "time travel" theme going on that Jacks dad in Jacobs hut is his dad from the past existing in the future.

How did his dad die again?

[LowCostMonkey]

Its not inconceivable given the current "time travel" theme going on that Jacks dad in Jacobs hut is his dad from the past existing in the future.

How did his dad die again?

Good question. I think he drank himself to death but I'm not sure if you ever actually see him die.

[mop]

You never see him die but we did get to see him dead when Jack had to identify him...If that means annything...

[Teeohbee.]

The thing is, people aren't actually travelling in time, only their consciousnesses are.

Jack's father is most definately dead on the island. So if he really did time travel from earlier in his life, his consciousness would be in the dead body, which plain wouldn't work would it?

I've seen posts on other forums with peopel exclaiming that Ekos brother and walt and everyone are all people just time travelling! They don't understand that it is only your consciousness that shifts, where you physical body is, is determined by the future/fate.

I think thats why I found the last episode so brilliant, it was quite a refreshing perspective on time travel, one in which you technically shift bodies.

[Distinct muttering]

Good point 7084, scrap that last point I made.

It cant of been Hurley imagining it was Jacks Dad though, because as far as we know he had never met him before.

[LowCostMonkey]

You never see him die but we did get to see him dead when Jack had to identify him...If that means annything...

Sorry, I meant we didn't what he died of. I assume it was alcohol poisoning but I suppose it could have been something different.

[Pob]

I've seen posts on other forums with peopel exclaiming that Ekos brother and walt and everyone are all people just time travelling! They don't understand that it is only your consciousness that shifts, where you physical body is, is determined by the future/fate.

I think thats why I found the last episode so brilliant, it was quite a refreshing perspective on time travel, one in which you technically shift bodies.

Yes I quite like the idea too. The notion that somewhere, deep in our subconcious, our brains are able to perceive time in a non-linear fashion, in a way that a godlike being observing our universe from the 'outside' might be able to.

I think, for it to really work as a theory, there should be no changing of the past/future. Events have to be set in stone, otherwise you're into the realm of just time travelling, Marty McFly-style.

Has Desmond actually been able to change anything yet? He's seen into the future and used the knowledge to help people, but there's been no suggestion that the alternate scenario (Claire getting struck by lightening or whatever it was) would actually have happened if he didn't intervene.

[Clap Your Hands]

Has Desmond actually been able to change anything yet? He's seen into the future and used the knowledge to help people, but there's been no suggestion that the alternate scenario (Claire getting struck by lightening or whatever it was) would actually have happened if he didn't intervene.

I think he basically change the way things happen not the outcome. the whole thing with charlie was the fact he could only put off his death rather than save him, a bit like final destination. Only much much better. There was that creepy old woman called Ms Hawking in 'flashes before your eyes' said that he couldn't change the future.

although saying that, i think him saving charlie brought the people on the boat to the island and that has somehow messed things up, hence locke chatting more about destiny and things that aren't supposed to happen, possibly why jack said they weren't supposed to leave.

The only disapointing thing about the last episode was the fact it didn't explain why desmond got chucked out the army for cowardice.

[Comrade]

It occurred to me that the stuff the doctor on the ship injects Minkowsky with looked a lot like the Dharma medicine that Desmond had in the hatch (and has been seen around elsewhere). Perhaps this medicine protects against the effects of the time shifting, but Minkowsky had been too greatly exposed for it to work. For everyone else the effects are smaller but accumulative, eventually resulting in the "sickness" shown, so they take the medicine to stave it off. The big question is why the sickness hasn't effected the losties. Perhaps Desmond not inputting the numbers (the first time) is related, or maybe the flashbacks are in fact time shifts as has been considered earlier in the thread. Or maybe it's something else altogether.

[Teeohbee.]

The big question is why the sickness hasn't effected the losties.

This is pure sepculation but here goes...

The time-shift/sickness only seems to occur if two factors have been fulfilled:

i) The person has been subject to high levels of radiation and/or electro magnetism

ii) The person must travel through the time shifting aura of the island after being affected by said radiation/electromagnestism.

The majority of the Losties are fine as they do not fulfill any of the requirements. Danielle's crew may have been subject to radiation etc before passing through the unique aura of the island and so started to undergo the side-affects. Danielle, being pregnant, would have avoided radiation and so gone through unnafected. Those in the hatch at the time of the fail safe have all been exposed to high levels of electro-magnetism, but as yet only Desmond has left the island, causing the side-affects.

As for Minkowski, he approached the island in a boat, so obviously passed through the field, and he worked in a room full of technology and radio equipment, would that provide enough electro-magnetic exposure? As for his friend, no idea LOL.

Also, I brought it up earlier, but no-one seems bothered by the fact that Penny is regurlarly trying to contact the freighter and the crew are ignoring her calls. How and Why is she doing this?

[The Grand Pursuivant]

and again as no-one seemed to pay attention the first time:

Time and space are "root assumptions" of this plane of existence; i.e., they are essentially illusory, and both the past and future coexist with the present in what Seth referred to as the "spacious present".

If you're positing this as a philosophical statement, then your basis for argument is incredibly contentuous. For a lot of philosophers time is an essential strand of existence. To state that time is illusory just doesn't work as either an a priori (from reason) or a posteriori (from the senses) argument. I can't really be bothered to go in to them here, as they are long and numerous, but this is by no means accepted fact. Space is slightly different, as it is subject to time, but many philosophers consider space to be something that exists intuitively. It can be considered to be illusory if you are a sceptic, but I'd rather die than give ground to any sceptical argument.

Development, expansion, growth and change do not require time in order to occur.

This statement is just wrong. For a start, development, expansion and growth are all different elements of change. Development is a change in abilities, expansion and growth are changes in size. For something to change, you must assume that something exists at time x. If there is only time x, and no time y or z, then it is impossible for the thing to change, as it can only exist in one temporal state. Imagine you are observing a chameleon. If it were to change colour, then that means that it would have to exist at time x, and whilst existing at time x it is green. For it to change colour to brown, then it would have to exist at time y, as it would be impossible for it to exist at time x and be brown, as that means that it was not green at time x. This means that if are you observing the chameleon, and time doesn't exist, it always appears to be brown. As such, there must be two distinct points in which the chameleon can exist to be first green, and then brown. We call the change in these temporal parts as the passage of time. So by definition, it is impossible for change to occur without time.

[Kramer]

Jack's dad was not in the coffin, when it was opened in Series 1.

I'm not sure what that brings to the table, but there it is.

[LowCostMonkey]

Also, I brought it up earlier, but no-one seems bothered by the fact that Penny is regurlarly trying to contact the freighter and the crew are ignoring her calls. How and Why is she doing this?

My guess is that "The Economist" is Penny's dad and he's hired all the freighter folk to go do something with the Island (as he would probably know as much about the Island as the Hanso peeps after he bought the log book of the Black Rock). He's probably told the freighter folk to ignore his cologin obsessed spoiled brat of a daughter.

[Pob]

My guess is that "The Economist" is Penny's dad and he's hired all the freighter folk to go do something with the Island (as he would probably know as much about the Island as the Hanso peeps after he bought the log book of the Black Rock). He's probably told the freighter folk to ignore his cologin obsessed spoiled brat of a daughter.

That Bad Twin book hints that the Widmore family (i.e Penny's family) are closely linked to the Hanso foundation. Of course, the book is a fiction-with-a-fiction, but must hint at some 'truths' in the Lost universe.

[Goose]

I think Penny had the info that Desmond was on the island, but had no idea where it was. Her crew in the Arctic found it at the end of Season 2 and so the boat set out toward where the island was, I reckon Daddy Widmore convinced her that it was too dangerous for her to go, but that she could keep in touch with the people on the boat. He then told the boat people that she'd be calling on this line but to ignore her calls.

How did she know he was on a specific island? Could she have gotten this info from her father some way? She must have the info somehow because why would you just randomly look for a huge magnetic pulse type thing and then know that the person you were looking for was there, unless you had the info?

[shewasmadeofchimps]

Danielle's crew may have been subject to radiation etc before passing through the unique aura of the island and so started to undergo the side-affects. Danielle, being pregnant, would have avoided radiation and so gone through unnafected.

The French test nuclear weapons in the south pacific. Maybe they put Danielle in a lead bunker or something to protect her baby.

I like the theory that Penny's father is the Economist and the boss of the freighter people.

[LowCostMonkey]

I think Penny had the info that Desmond was on the island, but had no idea where it was. Her crew in the Arctic found it at the end of Season 2 and so the boat set out toward where the island was, I reckon Daddy Widmore convinced her that it was too dangerous for her to go, but that she could keep in touch with the people on the boat. He then told the boat people that she'd be calling on this line but to ignore her calls.

How did she know he was on a specific island? Could she have gotten this info from her father some way? She must have the info somehow because why would you just randomly look for a huge magnetic pulse type thing and then know that the person you were looking for was there, unless you had the info?

But she had no idea about the freighter when Charlie spoke to her.

[Lucky]

Do we know how Desmond came to be on the Island?

And in S2 I think, in a flashback, didn't Desmond meet Jack while they were jogging in a stadium, in the stands?

Does this have anything to do with anything?

[Sprite Machine]

Desmond went sailing around the world and his boat crashed. He was rescued by that US army dude who made him press the button in the hatch over and over.

He met Jack ages ago while training. Another coincidence.

[squirtle]

But she had no idea about the freighter when Charlie spoke to her.

Not exactly true that. All she says is, "I'm not on a boat. Who's Naomi?" This is in response to Charlie asking her if she is on the boat 80miles offshore. She may know about it, she's just not on it.

[LowCostMonkey]

Not exactly true that. All she says is, "I'm not on a boat. Who's Naomi?" This is in response to Charlie asking her if she is on the boat 80miles offshore. She may know about it, she's just not on it.

I thought she said "What boat?" Anyway, she certainly knows about it now. She would have seen it on telly.

[sofasurfer]

Asides from the time travel there is clearly some weird manifestation, psychic projection shit going down on the island. Oh, and a huge black smoke monster... AND a camouflaged bird thing that's appeared... twice. I can't see how they can scientifically explain away those.

What's this camouflaged bird? I don't remember that one.

[Sir DangerM]

What's this camouflaged bird? I don't remember that one.

Neither do i...but i just looked up birds on lostpedia and i dont remember this either:

[squirtle]

That bird is from the end of Season 2 where Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer are heading across the island with Michael to supposedly get Walt back.

[Sir DangerM]

That bird is from the end of Season 2 where Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer are heading across the island with Michael to supposedly get Walt back.

Yeah I know, but that was years ago, and i dont remember it.