Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Pob]

I dunno about that ... I've kind of been erring on the side of Abbadon and Widdmore being pro-smokey. This might just have been because they are blatantly anti-Ben (in fact WHY they are so anti-Ben, is one of the big questions I really hope we get an answer to). And Ben has always been on Jacob's side. Or at least, it seems that he has always sincerely THOUGHT he was on Jacob's side.

I'm still finding the whole war issue very confusing.

The different factions still aren't clear. I understand why Jacob wanted the Ocean 5 back on the island (because they were the last of his candidates), but why did Widmore, Eloise and Ben all want them back? What is their connection to Jacob/the island? It's clear that Ilana and co are closest to Jacob personally, but it's not clear exactly what relationship the others have with him. He seems to ignore pretty much everyone else.

So were people like Miles listed on Jacob's ceiling, yet closed out because they'd turned out to be no good?

[joeplus]

I just want to know what Ben's magic box metaphor referred to...

Just speculation: the cave itself? Ben seemingly never knew about it, but the Others (who are or have been on what side exactly??? but mainly Jacob's I guess?) were all about lists and names... Locke's dad appeared, maybe his name got scratched into the cave, oh I don't know, this is a load of arse, but it's also FUN

[SpaceJump]

Didn't smokey cross out locke's name at the end, im sure he did but i cant remember.

[Anne Summers]

Just had another thought - the mysterious appearing kid with bleeding arms - could he be something to do with the "they" ... as in "they're coming..." (Jacob's last words) ? Seeing as he seems to consider himself worthy of ordering smokey around, perhaps he is some sort of higher power, making sure the rules are observed during the final conflict, or something ?

[makkuwata]

I wonder if the bleeding arms indicate that the kid is dead. And we're seeing him in the "Hurley sees dead people" sense, rather than the "hey, there's a horse in the jungle" sense. It might allow them to address the whole ghostbusters thing.

[Eighthours]

That was a thoroughly brilliant episode.

And I can't believe that, given all the Walkabout references, no one has mentioned that it's exactly 5 seasons since that classic episode! Walkabout: 1x04. This episode: 6x04.

Indeed, one Walkabout reference had me wondering:

Does Locke's personality still have influence on Smokey's form in that body? Consider the repeated, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" from both Locke and Flocke in this week's ep.

[Comrade]

And is there any significance to the war between Ben and Widmore any more? It's clear Ben has no idea what was going on, I'm not sure Widmore ever did. Was that all a big false direction from the makers of the show?

Remember that Widmore and Ben also had mysterious "rules" that stopped them from just killing each other - perhaps that implies that they are also involved in the same battle as that between Jacob and the MiB.

Incidentally, I wish they'd just give us the Man in Black's name already. It wouldn't have been hard - just Sawyer saying "Oh, well if you aren't Locke then what should I call you?" would do. Just to make the theorising easier man!

[dug]

Incidentally, I wish they'd just give us the Man in Black's name already. It wouldn't have been hard - just Sawyer saying "Oh, well if you aren't Locke then what should I call you?" would do. Just to make the theorising easier man!

I agree. I'm sick of saying "Locke, well, you know, not Locke... You know what I mean."

I'm guessing though, that the reason they haven't given us his name is that his identity will be a big twist/reveal. Like Walt.

[smods]

Remember that Widmore and Ben also had mysterious "rules" that stopped them from just killing each other - perhaps that implies that they are also involved in the same battle as that between Jacob and the MiB.

That's a good point! Didn't Ben say to Charles when he went into his apartment that he didn't follow the rules by killing Alex?

[shewasmadeofchimps]

Sawyer had some really great lines this episode. Can't remember them right now but he cracked me up a couple of times.

Yeah Sawyer was immense in this episode: "I don't care if you're dead, or time traveling, or the Ghost of Christmas Past. I only care about this whiskey." A lot of his lines in this ep seemed to be sly winks from the writers to the "long-suffering" (disagree personally but can empathise) fans who've stuck with it this far.

Terrific episode over all, nearly the perfect Lost ep. Lots of answers hinted at with confidence, some new mysteries introduced, allusions to past episodes and Sawyer being awesome.

[Ben]

What was the "in-joke" where not-Locke chucked away one of the stones in the cave?

[smods]

What was the "in-joke" where not-Locke chucked away one of the stones in the cave?

Jacob is represented by the white stone (good) and not-locke is the black rock (evil). The scales were balanced but now Jacob is dead shifting the power to not-locke. I assumed the joke was Jacob is dead?

[Fireproofradiator]

Indeed, one Walkabout reference had me wondering:

Does Locke's personality still have influence on Smokey's form in that body? Consider the repeated, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" from both Locke and Flocke in this week's ep.

I do hope so. I think the 'virus' might have something to do with this. Certainly, it seems unlikely they'd bother with showing a Locke flashsideways if the character's story still ends in that hotel room. I've got faith!

Was wondering in a chat with a colleague just now whether the virus might also relate to the flash sideways in someway. Either way I think it's a pretty good bet this is a component they can use to explain some stuff. Feels like they've always had it in their pocket.

Also, just to get my enjoyment of this episode on record. Terry O'Quinn is a great actor, and between this, Josh Holloway also being aces, and the fact that they're both such well defined characters now it all made for some great fun.

[Ben]

Jacob is represented by the white stone (good) and not-locke is the black rock (evil). The scales were balanced but now Jacob is dead shifting the power to not-locke. I assumed the joke was Jacob is dead?

Ah, that makes sense. I think I was looking too much into it. Thanks!

[Goose]

Also, just to get my enjoyment of this episode on record. Terry O'Quinn is a great actor, and between this, Josh Holloway also being aces, and the fact that they're both such well defined characters now it all made for some great fun.

They were both outstanding - what I love is the difference between fake Locke and normal Locke, and when you them both in the same episode it just so how amazing O'Quinn is - it could be two different actors. Holloway is playing the "oh who cares!" guy so well. The way he was utterly unimpressed by Locke being alive was brilliant.

[David78]

The magic box was just where Locke's dad was being held.

[Luke]

The magic box was just where Locke's dad was being held.

No.

The "magic box" was nothing more than Ben's metaphor for the magical powers of the island, and that if you wish for something, the island can bring it to you. Ben needed a spinal surgeon, a spinal surgeon fell from the sky; Locke needed closure with his dad, his dad ends up on the island (though, I don't believe there was anything magical about this, I think this was arranged in a similar way to Julliet's ex-husband being hit by the bus, or Sayid's wife being run over, and he was then brought to the island by the others - though there are obviously other Locke's Dad theories).

As has since been revealed though, Ben didn't actually really know anything about the workings of the island, or what magical properties or powers it had (or, at least knew a lot less than he was making out to know), and he just talked in bullshit metaphors to a) confuse other people, b) make them think he knew more than he did, but that he was holding it back from them.

In my opinion.

I think people waiting to see what the magic box is will be disappointed at the end of the series, I have no objection to being proven wrong though.

"Are you going to show me this magic box?"

"It was a metaphor, John!"

[A.C.R.O.N.Y.M]

The thing is its not a simple answer that Smokey Locke is evil, there's no contect to really base that on.

[Anne Summers]

The thing is its not a simple answer that Smokey Locke is evil, there's no contect to really base that on.

Well except he clearly represents dark in the whole light/dark thing that's been going on since Ep 1 - although that could all still be a red herring at this point, of course (as could pretty much anything we have seen).

[A.C.R.O.N.Y.M]

Well the smoke monster has mostly been known for casting judgment: those who have refused to repent their pre-island ways and change for the better have usually been his victims. The overall sense was that the smoke monster was pushing the survivors to accept the opportunity for change that the island represented. While not necessarily “good”, that sort of judgment seemed to reflect the darkness of the individuals, not the judge himself.

All of which points to an interesting question: is Jacob’s rival truly the evil entity that he seems to be? The implication is that Jacob’s rival has been trapped on the island for good reason, but that is not necessarily the case. Richard's reactions and warnings came, by his own admission, from a limited point of view. For that matter, while the black/white duality suggests a clear good/evil distinction, that may be a false assumption. Until the motivations of Jacob and his rival are better defined, critical context is missing.

[squirtle]

That's what I said a while back. What if Jacob is the bad guy in all this.

[Goose]

Bit of info - From reading the DarkUFO recap of the last episode - in the scene in which Randy walks over to Locke's cubicle, if you pause it on Locke's POV you can see he has two photos pinned to the wall of the cubicle, one is of himself and Helen, the other is of himself and Anthony Cooper (his bio-father). Proving, I reckon, that in this timeline it is not Locke's father who is responsible for taking his kidney or pushing him through the window (disabling him in the process).

What if Locke being cloned by MIB is all part of Jacob's plan? I wonder if it will have any significance, that Jacob touched Locke (appeared perhaps, to bring him back from the dead) knowing that one day the MIB would clone Locke, and perhaps ultimately putting a part of Jacob into the MIB that would eventually overcome him? Or something similar.

[glb]

SO THE QUESTION IS - IS THERE A WHITE ROCK? (what is it with black and white stones anyway?)

The statue is made of rock, and pretty white... I'm still not convinced 'white' is the good in all this, but perhaps that would be too obvious a misdirection for Lost. They'll probably just introduce a third colour in the penultimate ep and we'll all be like, 'oh, so it was red all along.'

Head is spinning like a carousel in a tornado after that ep. The alternate reality is a major mind rattle because the characters are slightly different to how we've known them rather than simply being a continuation from the point of the bomb going off. I know that's what 'alternate' is, but it's more a parallel reality that exists independently from what we've already seen, so where's the crossover point, or are both just completely seperate and the similarities coincidental? If so, then the bomb has nothing whatsoever to do with bizarro-world-that's-sort-of-but-not-quite-opposite reality. But why? FFFFFFUUUUUUUU!

Maybe the flash-sideways reality is what happens when the true candidate steps up to the plate and says, 'okay, time to send everyone else home, then let's get some newbies for round 612 of this crazy game.' They all go on with their lives and they pan out as they would have regardless. Except I think all the cave candidates appear on the 'parallel' plane. *sigh* I wish I could properly articulate the thoughts swimming around my head, but trying to do so just ends up confusing the matter more.

Average show

[the_debaser]

Peggy: Al, how come you never send me roses?

Al: I don't like you, Peg.

That was running through my head ALL FUCKING EPISODE.

[glb]

I thought, 'hehehe, Locke's tapping Leela.'

[dug]

What if Locke being cloned by MIB is all part of Jacob's plan?

That's something I've thought since the last episode of series 5. Jacob didn't put up any kind of resistance to Ben 'killing' him, and the speech he gave about his tapestry, all the threads having to be pulled into exactly the right place, seemed to be a clear metaphor for him nudging the lives of the Losties in just the right way for that very scene under the statue's foot to take place.

Jacob wanted to be 'killed' at that point for his plan to work. What exactly is his plan? We've got the rest of this series to find out...

[Luke]

Maybe the flash-sideways reality is what happens when the true candidate steps up to the plate and says, 'okay, time to send everyone else home, then let's get some newbies for round 612 of this crazy game.' They all go on with their lives and they pan out as they would have regardless. Except I think all the cave candidates appear on the 'parallel' plane. *sigh* I wish I could properly articulate the thoughts swimming around my head, but trying to do so just ends up confusing the matter more.

I quite like this theory. Shannon wasn't on the 'parallel' plane, and I think she was one of the names. Not sure how much that means.

I do like the idea though that maybe the island being under water was something to do with MiB and/or Sawyer and/or someone else, saying fuck this stupid game, and going back in time to sink it.

It's a little unclear when it sunk though, but it must have been before flight 815 went over, and after Dharma had built their village.

I agree that Jacob quite possibly isn't good, aside from the fact he's clearly a creepy fuck, when Jacob and MiB were first introduced to us, my sympathies were with MiB.

It might be like the battle between Ben and Widmore though, in the end neither of them is what you'd call good.

People keep airing questions about how much Ben and Widmore really knew, but there's also the third ex-leader to consider; how much did Eloise really know, and when is her comment "the island's not done with you yet" to Desmond going to play out?

[Nespresso]

You know, just reading this page alone has me wondering if the writers are even aware of these questions and plot lines any more. They can't really tie up all of this now can they?

Speaking of Desmond. Where is the guy again?

[son_of_helvetica]

Really loved Ben's funeral eulogy in this - probably best part of the entire episode.

[CactuarBill]

Speaking of Desmond. Where is the guy again?

He was severely underused in season 5 but that was down to the story so you can't really do much about it. I think it's doubtful you'll see Desmond on the island again. I think he'll be the main factor in the other reality, maybe he's the only one that knows what's going on.