Lost - The Full Series Thread

[A Hen]

Really annoys me how even the main Losties can't be straight with each other.

Wow. That's one of the main reasons I gave up on the show early on (I'm dropping into this thread to see how the show evolved), and the characters are still behaving like this?

Back at the start, the characters just didn't seem to behave in a plausible way - they're in a dangerous/extreme head-fuck situation, they all know weird/dangerous shit is going off everywhere, and they choose not to inform each other that, say, they saw a giant flashing diamond come out of the sea, wink at them, eject a sentient leopard which explodes, and then submerge again? [shrug, whatever]. Sure, some people might choose not to disclose this sort of event, but in total it smacked of contrivance to keep the audience in the dark, rather than what would really happen (also, people very conveniently having amnesia just so the audience don't find out what happened). Worse, the other characters didn't seem bothered about asking any detailed questions what happened to them. Again, it came across to me that they weren't that fussed about their predicament!

By the way, I'm not criticising anyone here for liking the show - it has a great premise, and if anything I'm still frustrated because I couldn't enjoy the show when I really wanted to like it. I'm quite jealous that you guys have had several years of enjoyment out of it, as some of the developments I have heard about have sounded great.

[Pob]

Wow. That's one of the main reasons I gave up on the show early on (I'm dropping into this thread to see how the show evolved), and the characters are still behaving like this?

Back at the start, the characters just didn't seem to behave in a plausible way - they're in a dangerous/extreme head-fuck situation, they all know weird/dangerous shit is going off everywhere, and they choose not to inform each other that, say, they saw a giant flashing diamond come out of the sea, wink at them, eject a sentient leopard which explodes, and then submerge again? [shrug, whatever]. Sure, some people might choose not to disclose this sort of event, but in total it smacked of contrivance to keep the audience in the dark, rather than what would really happen (also, people very conveniently having amnesia just so the audience don't find out what happened). Worse, the other characters didn't seem bothered about asking any detailed questions what happened to them. Again, it came across to me that they weren't that fussed about their predicament!

By the way, I'm not criticising anyone here for liking the show - it has a great premise, and if anything I'm still frustrated because I couldn't enjoy the show when I really wanted to like it. I'm quite jealous that you guys have had several years of enjoyment out of it, as some of the developments I have heard about have sounded great.

Well, to be fair the characters don't behave like that any more. In fact the last couple of episodes have been full of people demanding answers, and in a lot of cases getting them. It's been like that for a couple of years now, with information being held back because there are still lots of factions who are suspicious of each other. And The Others never seems to tell outsiders more than is absolutely necessary for the purposes of protecting the island.

The bit that Anne Summers mentioned made sense because Hurley didn't want to sound crazy in front of uber-rational Jack.

[Pob]

Claire becoming like Rousseau - what's that all about? Are they implying that Rousseau also had 'the sickness'?

[Riccardo]

Great episode, I'm loving the way they're filling in all the mythology. Good to see the cave return too, now I'm pondering that the bodies might be the original bodies of Jacob and MiB.

My take on the alt-timeline is that it's not the bomb going off, but what their lives would've been like had Jacob (or perhaps MiB) not interfered somewhere along the way.

[whizzo]

It so obviously what would have happened if the bomb went off that there is no way its gonna be that

[joeplus]

Good episode. Jack is such a penis, though. Magic mirror! How about you have a look-see what it does before you go all JACK SMASH?

[zxcvbnm]

Interesting that Sawyer also had the same experience (of discovering the numbers/names) the week before, albeit being shown directly rather than being led to it. Wonder how each of their reactions will compare.

Here's my take on it -

Jack & Sawyer will be THE candidates with Jack replacing Jacob and Sawyer replacing Smokey

[Luke]

My take on the alt-timeline is that it's not the bomb going off, but what their lives would've been like had Jacob (or perhaps MiB) not interfered somewhere along the way.

What if the alt-reality is a reality that happened before the reality where they ended up on the island, and in the alt-reality Jacob somehow went back and changed things so that the candidates ended up going to the island to save it from ending up under water, and the bomb working meant that "the incident" didn't cause the island to be submerged, and instead the hatch was able to be built. The numbers being entered in the hatch, etc, were then all part of Jacob's way of signalling the candidates to the island.

Not sure that quite fits together, but would be an interesting twist.

Edit: "It only ends once, everything else is just progress" - what if the alt-realitiy is one of the "progress" realities. So far this reality is going better (the island isn't under water), but there's still more to be done.

[Yoshimax]

Here's my take on it -

Jack & Sawyer will be THE candidates with Jack replacing Jacob and Sawyer replacing Smokey

I can definitely see that being the case.

[Boobni82]

Im wondering if

the people coming back to the Island are previous others like Widmore and Eloise and maybe even the monk dude from the Church that Desmond went to who had a pic of Eloise. All them crowd coming back for the final battle which would maybe be why he doesnt seem fussed about losing the temple.

[Goose]

Claire is an interesting case and they've got to follow that up with some kind of explanation. She walked into the jungle didn't she? Leaving Aaron on his own. If I remember rightly, Sawyer then emerged from the jungle with him and Kate took it on herself to look after him, getting him off the island. One assumes she has forgotten all of this or at least had the truth clouded from her. Her initial disappearance from the show wasn't really handled well - I'll look it up and see what the turn of events were.

Something else - no one appears to have made it to the actual "pill taking" stage after they've been tested. We still don't know if the poison pill would kill the infection or kill the person and the infection. Claire pointed out that she'd been stuck with needles and branded like Sayid but had escaped. Sayid himself was told by Jack the pill was poisoned so he obviously never took it either. Given that they need to take it of their own will, it seems almost self-defeating to torture them and then expect them to casually take a pill from the very same hand that branded you.

Why didn't the Others just kill Claire if she was such a pain in the arse? She'd been out there three years, they'd obviously crossed paths more than once. She'd not taken the pill so this darkness/infection was going to take her over. Why not just take her out?

And what's Aaron's story anyway? Wasn't Claire meant to be the only one to raise that cat? We know she exists in some capacity in the other time line.

I fear some kind of big 'up yours' with this alternate time line, like they'll all be in some kind of test/torture chamber, like Walt was put in back when he was captured.

[Luke]

Claire is an interesting case and they've got to follow that up with some kind of explanation. She walked into the jungle didn't she? Leaving Aaron on his own. If I remember rightly, Sawyer then emerged from the jungle with him and Kate took it on herself to look after him, getting him off the island. One assumes she has forgotten all of this or at least had the truth clouded from her. Her initial disappearance from the show wasn't really handled well - I'll look it up and see what the turn of events were.

Her dad (Christian) turned up, and she followed him off. When Locke later visited the cottage and spoke to Christian, he saw Claire there. It seems though that Smokey and Christian have been telling Claire that the others took her baby.

And what's Aaron's story anyway? Wasn't Claire meant to be the only one to raise that cat?

That's what the psychic told here, but the psychic was later seen telling Eko that he was just a fraud. So it's a little hazy as to whether there's anything in it. It may have just all been a plan to get Claire to take the baby to that family in LA (perhaps they'd paid him, or something). I hope there is something in it though.

Perhaps the Others can't just kill Claire or Sayid as that would allow them to transform into smoke monsters too. Although, if Rousseau was also infected, she was just killed by the mercenaries, and also if the other Frenchies were really infected, then Rousseau just killed them too.

[Mr Cochese]

What cat?

[Luke]

What cat?

I was assuming he meant Aaron (though I wasn't sure why he called him a cat).

[Pob]

[Sponge]

I can't remember this, but the french dude that lost his arm was dragged into the temple by smokey, does that mean that smokey has been able to get in there in the past?

[A Hen]

Well, to be fair the characters don't behave like that any more. In fact the last couple of episodes have been full of people demanding answers, and in a lot of cases getting them. It's been like that for a couple of years now, with information being held back because there are still lots of factions who are suspicious of each other. And The Others never seems to tell outsiders more than is absolutely necessary for the purposes of protecting the island.

The bit that Anne Summers mentioned made sense because Hurley didn't want to sound crazy in front of uber-rational Jack.

That sounds a lot more sensible - thanks for the info.

[Luke]

I can't remember this, but the french dude that lost his arm was dragged into the temple by smokey, does that mean that smokey has been able to get in there in the past?

He also judged Ben down there.

Though, that's under the temple wall, which Ben made it sound like was some way from the temple itself.

[Mr Cochese]

Yeah, that's not actually part of the temple. It's more like the temple outhouse or something.

[Tom*]

So when Jin said to Claire there was that secret way in, he was just lying in order to escape right?

The Others already hang out down there, and on the other side there's still a gap to the temple which is surrounded by ash and guarded anyway.

Also MIB has Claire believing the Others took Aaron, but she wouldn't have left him to be taken if she hadn't run off with MIB/Christian/whatever. Honestly, Claire.

[SomethingWitty]

But it's a different timeline. We don't know if there was a split caused by the bomb or if it goes even further than that and none of them have ever been there.

Bear in mind that if the bomb had gone off, and worked as Faraday suggested, the hatch wouldn't have been built and so Desmond wouldn't have failed to push the button and so none of the Losties would ever have come to the island. The idea that the alternate timeline that this spawned starts from the point the bomb went off is flawed. Apart from anything else, the losties were time jumping all over the place - to the 1950s where they interacted heavily with the Others and to a time in the ancient past when the statues was still intact, for example - and so any alternate timeline that springs up will be subject to those things never happening.

Maybe, if they'd never been to the Island, Jughead would've gone bang and wiped out the Others in the 50s - it was only buried on Faraday's advice, after all, and he never went to the 50s in the alternate timeline. Maybe, for reasons dating back to the 50s or before, the circumstances that brought Ben to the island (Mother dying in childbirth, and Horace happening to be the first passing person, befriending Roger and inviting him to join Dharma) never happened.

I think my point is that it's impossible to speculate about what you might *expect* to be the case in the alternate timeline, because through the time-jumping and the possibly miniscule changes the Losties made in time periods dating back hundreds (thousands?) of years, anything could have happened that wouldn't have done in their absence in the alternate timeline, Butterfly Effect stylee.

[Luke]

Bear in mind that if the bomb had gone off, and worked as Faraday suggested, the hatch wouldn't have been built and so Desmond wouldn't have failed to push the button and so none of the Losties would ever have come to the island. The idea that the alternate timeline that this spawned starts from the point the bomb went off is flawed. Apart from anything else, the losties were time jumping all over the place - to the 1950s where they interacted heavily with the Others and to a time in the ancient past when the statues was still intact, for example - and so any alternate timeline that springs up will be subject to those things never happening.

That's my theory as to why there are TWO realities now. It's the island's/universe's way of preventing a paradox.

Yes, if they had never landed on the island none of those things would have happened, however there is still a reality where all those things happened, up until the point of the bomb. I think there was a kind of huge tear in reality, creating two parallel realities, to avoid a paradox. I think that if this is the case, then something needs to be done in one reality, or the other, to somehow tie them back together, or at least tie one of them up.

(This isn't to be confused with my other theory that the alt-reality is actually a "progress" reality, and it is that reality that is prevented by the bomb, and creates the reality where the Losties ended up on the island - I may possible be starting to lean towards this theory, even though it means I'll have to look up that recipe for hat)

Edit: I read your post again, and I don't think you were making the point I originally thought you were making. I think the point you are making about the Losties having never been there in the other reality at any of the time jump points, and so possibly affecting all kinds of things, is a good one.

[Mohiam]

Here's my take on it - Jack & Sawyer will be THE candidates with Jack replacing Jacob and Sawyer replacing Smokey

Jack or one of the other candidates replacing Jacob seems plausible, however not sure that this is the case for Smokey.

I'm not convinced that these are two equal combatants engaged in war - it's more like Jacob has been keeping Smokey prisoner. Now that Smokey's killed his Jailor, he just needs to get out of the jail perhaps - with the temple, or something within it, being the next part of that.

[Pob]

Assuming Smokey is telling the truth, he doesn't actually give a shit about the island. He just wants to get off.

[SomethingWitty]

Edit: I read your post again, and I don't think you were making the point I originally thought you were making. I think the point you are making about the Losties having never been there in the other reality at any of the time jump points, and so possibly affecting all kinds of things, is a good one.

Yep, that's what I was trying to get at.

I'm not very good at being concise or clear!

[whizzo]

Damn. I really liked the idea of Whatever happened happened.

Maybe MIB and Jacob will turn not to be the major players like all before them

[Luke]

I'm looking forward to seeing how they manage to tie this all up in the remaining episodes, I don't remotely expected everything to be explained, but at least to have how the alt-reality fits in revealed, and some explanation given of who Jacob and Smokey are.

Not really sure how much of anything else will be explained, especially as they seem to be spending so much time on seemingly meaningless story in the alt-reality.

[Teeohbee.]

Yeah, if I had one complaint about this series, its that I'm finding it hard to care about what happens in the alt reality at the moment.

This dampens all the reveals in the alt reality loads. Jack has a son? Big whoop, thats not the same jack I've been watching for the last 5 seasons. Hugo is lucky. Locke is buddy with his dad. All of this is pretty meaningless until we learn more about the connection between the 2 realities.

The flashbacks had us guessing over what reasons led the losties to the island, and the reasons for their character traits etc.

The flash forwards had us guessing how the Losties got off the island, and how their lives got to that point in the flashforward.

The flashsideways just have us guessing one question, whats the relevence between all this we're being shown, and the characters we've gotten to know over the past 5 seasons.

Hopefully it'll be a big'un!

[A Hen]

I'm looking forward to seeing how they manage to tie this all up in the remaining episodes, I don't remotely expected everything to be explained, but at least to have how the alt-reality fits in revealed, and some explanation given of who Jacob and Smokey are.

Not really sure how much of anything else will be explained, especially as they seem to be spending so much time on seemingly meaningless story in the alt-reality.

Didn't the show's creators originally promise that everything would be given a perfectly rational explanation, though?

[Goose]

Didn't the show's creators originally promise that everything would be given a perfectly rational explanation, though?

Perhaps at the start that was the plan but I think we've long passed that stage. I'm quite sure they said time travel would never become a theme of the show yet season 5 was full it, setting up a lot of what we saw took place before the plane crashed and a fair bit after it. They've also, as season six got closer, stated that there's going to be things we won't get an answer to but that by the end of the season you will know what happens to everybody, if that makes sense. I assume it means you won't just see a person walk off into the sunset - they'll have a definitive resolution to their storyline.

Is there a site that lists the show's unanswered questions?

What if Locke died in the original plane crash and has been smokey all along? Perhaps the island didn't heal him at all, just that his body was taken over by smokey because he died when the plane crashed? Pretty long shot for sure, but if you think back to the Zen like Locke of the first season - it's not entirely impossible. I always thought it was a big deal that he knew when it would rain. Perhaps the Locke that Ben killed was just a clone of Fake Locke, in the same way that we see the Locke who is walking around now as the clone of the one who Ben strangled.

I'm still, at the moment, going with Jacob knowing exactly what he is doing. That Ben killing the original Locke and then getting his body back to the island so that the MIB could clone it was all played out exactly how he wanted it to be. At some point Jacob is going to make good on that, revealing a part of the true Locke inside the fake one. Or something. I also reckon the alt-reality is going to start clashing more, with more coincidences taking place, as the season wears on, until it reaches saturation point.

We still have no idea who Juliette shot in one of those boats when they time-jumped and took the boats that time.