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Lost - The Full Series Thread


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Hurley's explanation of Libby's behaviour (a strong memory of something that hadn't happened) was fairly similar to what Desmond experienced and what Charlie described. I guess he just put two and two together when talking to Hurley.

You're probably right. Assuming my theory about him running over Locke is correct, I wonder how he knew to do that. Maybe he does have some sort of enlightenment to the greater scheme of things now.

hurley seemed to change after finding that bag after whats-her-face blew up.

but what was in the bag that made hurley so certain he needed to oppose richard?

The bag was Jacob's ashes was it not? However Hurley only seemed to change after that, actually he was just going along with it so that he could get to the Black Rock first and destroy all the dynamite. His original desire to oppose Richard/not blow up the plane came when he saw Michael.

Which in itself is very baffling, as we've been lead to believe the smoke monster can't now change his form, which means what Michael said about them being trapped ghosts can be assumed to be true. And if so, why does Michael know anything? Could it be that the MiB visit the ghosts of the island and make some kind of deal with them to offer them a life (the alt?) that they wanted, as some people originally theorised? And for this 'alt' to exist as the only reality, MiB has to leave?

'Michael' could have been Jacob trying to influence Hurley to talk to the MiB because it will actually end up benefitting the fight against him in some way... Then again who the hell knows. There's so many threads and subliminal influences coming from both Jacob's and MiBs side that it's impossible to know who is playing who anymore, or even if there is some third party in the ghosts of the island.

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I think that the young boy is the same,

but perhaps appearing as slightly older because Desmond is successfully doing Jacob's work in the alternate world. As Desmond succeeds more in linking the two realities, perhaps then, the MiB will see Jacob at full age. Just a theory, like.

Or you know, maybe it was a third brother. He was killed and that's why Jacob and MiB had a big falling out to start with.

Great episode though. Was nice to get an answer about the whispers. I'm a little perturbed about how Ben has been reduced to a bit part character now. I hope there's a bit more about him to come.

It's the same boy. It's played by the same actor, Kenton Duty, in both The Substitute and Everybody Loves Hugo. Amazing what you can do with hair colour. For my money, the images posted a couple of pages back are the same boy - just with different colour hair. Check the nose, the eyes and the mole on the side of his neck in both pics. As for spoilering this - not sure if I should or shouldn't - so figured I just should to be on the safe side.

EDIT:

FWIW I think he does have a passing resemblence to the adult Jacob's face. Keep in mind that if Smokey is revealed to be who I think he is going to be then Jacob and Smokey are meant to be twin brothers. The young actor COULD be meant to be representing both Jacob and Smokey

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It's the same boy. It's played by the same actor, Kenton Duty, in both The Substitute and Everybody Loves Hugo. Amazing what you can do with hair colour. For my money, the images posted a couple of pages back are the same boy - just with different colour hair. Check the nose, the eyes and the mole on the side of his neck in both pics. As for spoilering this - not sure if I should or shouldn't - so figured I just should to be on the safe side.

EDIT:

FWIW I think he does have a passing resemblence to the adult Jacob's face. Keep in mind that if Smokey is revealed to be who I think he is going to be then Jacob and Smokey are meant to be twin brothers. The young actor COULD be meant to be representing both Jacob and Smokey

That had better be guesswork!!

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That had better be guesswork!!

I presume you mean the bit in the EDIT, not the bit where all I've done is look at photos of the lad from episodes that have aired

and come to the conclusion he's the same actor before confirming it via IMDB.

As for the bit in the EDIT. Yes, it's guesswork. My theory on Lost has been pretty much settled for a couple of seasons now. It may/may not prove to be right - but I'm sticking by it.

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Which in itself is very baffling, as we've been lead to believe the smoke monster can't now change his form, which means what Michael said about them being trapped ghosts can be assumed to be true. And if so, why does Michael know anything? Could it be that the MiB visit the ghosts of the island and make some kind of deal with them to offer them a life (the alt?) that they wanted, as some people originally theorised? And for this 'alt' to exist as the only reality, MiB has to leave?

'Michael' could have been Jacob trying to influence Hurley to talk to the MiB because it will actually end up benefitting the fight against him in some way... Then again who the hell knows. There's so many threads and subliminal influences coming from both Jacob's and MiBs side that it's impossible to know who is playing who anymore, or even if there is some third party in the ghosts of the island.

My theory is that only one of Jacob or MiB can inhabit a real body at one time. Jacob was alive on and off the island at one point, in what we assume was his own body as he appears to all the Losties at some point in their lives, setting them on the path to the island. The MiB at this point, was appearing as the smoke monster or the ghosts or whatever. Point was, he didn't have his own body, until he took over John Locke's. Perhaps while Jacob had a body, the MiB was able to keep him there via the black ash circles.

Now the roles are reversed, Jacob is dead (sorta) and has no body and can either appear as the ghosts of people dead on the island, or as himself, but now the MiB is stuck in the body of Locke which he seems to need to get off the island. The killing of Jacob at the temple has somehow allowed MiB to stay in Locke's body.

In summary - to properly achieve their outcomes, only one of MiB and Jacob can assume bodily form, while the other is limited to either using the spirits on the island or appearing as them. This is why I think the smoke monster can't change form now (other than to become black smoke).

PS - Do we know the exact point that the MiB assumed Locke's body? I can't remember.

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I presume you mean the bit in the EDIT, not the bit where all I've done is look at photos of the lad from episodes that have aired

and come to the conclusion he's the same actor before confirming it via IMDB.

As for the bit in the EDIT. Yes, it's guesswork. My theory on Lost has been pretty much settled for a couple of seasons now. It may/may not prove to be right - but I'm sticking by it.

Do tell, who do you think Smokey will be revealed as?

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My theory is that only one of Jacob or MiB can inhabit a real body at one time. Jacob was alive on and off the island at one point, in what we assume was his own body as he appears to all the Losties at some point in their lives, setting them on the path to the island. The MiB at this point, was appearing as the smoke monster or the ghosts or whatever. Point was, he didn't have his own body, until he took over John Locke's. Perhaps while Jacob had a body, the MiB was able to keep him there via the black ash circles.

Now the roles are reversed, Jacob is dead (sorta) and has no body and can either appear as the ghosts of people dead on the island, or as himself, but now the MiB is stuck in the body of Locke which he seems to need to get off the island. The killing of Jacob at the temple has somehow allowed MiB to stay in Locke's body.

In summary - to properly achieve their outcomes, only one of MiB and Jacob can assume bodily form, while the other is limited to either using the spirits on the island or appearing as them. This is why I think the smoke monster can't change form now (other than to become black smoke).

PS - Do we know the exact point that the MiB assumed Locke's body? I can't remember.

It was as soon as the Ajira flight with Locke's body on board landed on the island. He did change out of that form to scare the crap out of Ben as Alex, but he was back in Locke form when Ben killed Jacob and has been stuck like that ever since.

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lostpedia say it's the same kid:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mysterious_boy

and he seems to be reminding locke he can't kill certain people perhaps? Maybe that's why locke is worried, he knows desmond is a threat and he can't just kill him.

but definately the same when you look at those photos, and it looks like Jacob.

Wonder what's going to happen, then, now that MiB has killed (or attempted to kill) Desmond? I can't remember - Des isn't a candidate is he?

Great discussion about ghost-boys by the way.

Same actor, different hair colours.....

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By the way, I think the boy is Jacob reborn and aging rapidly. The hair colour change is probably just an attempt to make him look older.

I do like the twins theory, but just don't buy that Smokey would see a younger version of himself and be scared. It just seems... unnecessarily complicated.

It seems much more likely that young Jacob keeps appearing to remind Smokey that his 'loophole' wasn't foolproof, he's been reborn and he's growing up fast. Every time Smokey sees him he seems to be reminded that he has to hurry on with his plan while this window of opportunity is open.

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see for speculation about MiB.

I think the MiB is apep (or apophis, stargate fans) the egyptian god of darkness and evil. His wife was taweret (the statue) and he battled Ra daily (jacob?).

Ra - Richard Alpert

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I assume he means

edited

It was revealed on a podcast MEANING IT'S A SPOILER AND SHOULD STAY THE FUCK OUT OF HERE

:coffee:

when his lips are moving they're saying "read the rules about spoilers in this thread dickwad!"

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It seems much more likely that young Jacob keeps appearing to remind Smokey that his 'loophole' wasn't foolproof, he's been reborn and he's growing up fast.

This is what I originally thought the kid represented.

However, if Jacob is reincarnated so quickly each time, why does he need any candidates to replace him?

Also, he has seemed quite capable of appearing for a chat in his original form, even immediately after his "death".

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I think Luke already mentioned it, but I did find it funny when, after all the discussion in here about them just blatantly spelling stuff out vs. whether there will be a continued air of mystery and ambiguity, we had this exchange:

Hurley: So the whispers are ghosts, right?

Michael: Yes.

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:coffee:

when his lips are moving they're saying "read the rules about spoilers in this thread dickwad!"

Sorry I couldn't resist, you guys are too easy! In hindsight, I should have made my supposed podcast in an ARG with the actor who plays Jack's son in the alternate reality even more fantastical so that it's more obvious i'm joking.

In the future I won't bother I'll put a huge winking smiley.

What I spoiler tagged is mere speculation and nothing more.

EDIT - Its been spoilered now but whoever wrote "You've got a bit of Ilana on you" unspoilered on the last page. Thanks. I watched the episode just waiting for her to blow up. Luckily it didn't take long and the rest of the episode was great!

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My theory is that only one of Jacob or MiB can inhabit a real body at one time. Jacob was alive on and off the island at one point, in what we assume was his own body as he appears to all the Losties at some point in their lives, setting them on the path to the island. The MiB at this point, was appearing as the smoke monster or the ghosts or whatever. Point was, he didn't have his own body, until he took over John Locke's. Perhaps while Jacob had a body, the MiB was able to keep him there via the black ash circles.

Now the roles are reversed, Jacob is dead (sorta) and has no body and can either appear as the ghosts of people dead on the island, or as himself, but now the MiB is stuck in the body of Locke which he seems to need to get off the island. The killing of Jacob at the temple has somehow allowed MiB to stay in Locke's body.

In summary - to properly achieve their outcomes, only one of MiB and Jacob can assume bodily form, while the other is limited to either using the spirits on the island or appearing as them. This is why I think the smoke monster can't change form now (other than to become black smoke).

PS - Do we know the exact point that the MiB assumed Locke's body? I can't remember.

Ooooh, I like this theory. Makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Role reversal!

I do like the twins theory, but just don't buy that Smokey would see a younger version of himself and be scared. It just seems... unnecessarily complicated.

Maybe. I haven't really thought it through, but I can't think why else they would deliberately change the hair colour. There could be any multitude of reasons why the MiB would be fearful of his past self, but we'd probably only find out through a MiB/Jacob history flashback from when they were kids.

That they are twins is a good shout also, but they don't look like very convincing twins in their adult forms though.

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I think Ileana was pretty hard done by but while I think the island is done with her, the show isn't. There's too much unknown about her - the burns/beating marks on her face, you don't just put that sort of thing in, there has to be an explanation. If it wasn't important you'd just have Jacob meeting her and asking for her help with no big mystery.

What kind of training did she do? She said she'd been doing it all her life. If I was her ghost I'd be pretty pissed off that she'd trained, possibly gotten beaten up by someone, then been sent to an island to do help a group of people she'd never met. And she only really helped a few of them, not all the candidates. Jacob is rapidly becoming a bit of a wanker.

Also, are we to assume Locke is stuck like that because they destroyed the cabin?

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What kind of training did she do? She said she'd been doing it all her life. If I was her ghost I'd be pretty pissed off that she'd trained, possibly gotten beaten up by someone, then been sent to an island to do help a group of people she'd never met. And she only really helped a few of them, not all the candidates. Jacob is rapidly becoming a bit of a wanker.

Were the ghosts explained before or after Ileana died? Maybe she had to die to do what she has to do?

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