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Lost - The Full Series Thread


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I was expecting the finale to be some sort of treat, a way of the writers saying 'ok, you've spent six years, crafting all these theories and ideas, and to reward you, we're going to give you some straight answers. No more mystery, no more questions, just answers'. But that wasn't the case, any answers that were given (apart from a few) still have to be pulled from the analysis, requiring the viewer to continue their break down of the show.

i couldn't have put this better myself. i was intending to start watching the series afresh after the finale - to revisit previous situations but with my new found knowledge. that now sounds like the most frustrating experience in the world. i won't ever watch anything that these guys produce again with any degree of investment. i feel like i have trusted people i shouldn't have. THE LONG CON indeed.

Ι understand your need for answers, but I really think there is no need for some of them to be answered.

Some things just happened, because of the island. Others just are, because of the mythology.

My point is, you can apply many of these questions to Lord of the Rings too, but you just accept the lack of proper answers due to it being fantasy.

these are really poor examples. i think frustration starts when fans realise that the world and mysteries they have been following for so long didn't have a grand plan or a destination. they were created on the fly, made up as the creators went along. it was the same problem the prequels had. it was disingenuous of the creators of the show to pretend they had a rigid plan and that we were being led on a path of discovery.

the only person to successfully stage manage fan expectations is JK Rowling. because she knew what she was doing all from very early on and not making it up book by book.

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Vincent \o/

Now that the dust has settled a bit, I really enjoyed the finale. It could have easily slipped into cloying melodrama given the route the writers opted for but thankfully didn't, and instead ended deftly.

I suppose one of the show's strengths was also its biggest failing; it had so many mysteries it was never, ever going to be possible to cover them all (unless the final two hours had been dry exposition). What was covered was satisfying and fitted into the overall arc. Some questions were just narrative devices, others were not really that important, they just 'were'.

It's been an enjoyable, frustrating, mystifying but ultimately fulfilling ride, made all the more enjoyable by all the various theories and thoughts posted by fans of the show. There have been, and will be, better TV shows but few with as much scope and ambition as Lost. I'll miss it.

This.

I fucking loved the ending and the fact that people are still theorising over it after it's finished is a testament to it's longevity. People will one day eventually stop whinging about the ending and move on, but until then just keep theorising and complaining. I'll be waiting in the Church when you're ready to let go.

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It was pretty obvious - the mother of MIB/Jacob said that the heart of the island was the source... a little of that light is in everyone (or something similar), implying that without it there is no life. Therefore they were saving life by saving the island. She also says that too much of the light has bad effects - it is theorised that she is a smoke monster herself, though if so it is weakly displayed. The MIB is clearly fed up with his own existence - he wanted to leave; to live, as is explicitly shown, but Jacob's rules and the powers make him unable to so he wants to end all existence as revenge. Without this existence, there is no afterlife for the losties so not only is it saving life, but the afterlife. Admittedly it could have been better shown, but it isn't that obscure either.

I don't think it was wasted, but you are entitled to feel that, because the pay-off was so marvellous to me. More time was wasted on much of the ridiculous temple stuff that really went nowehere.

Forget the purgatory idea - it was a place for them to correct their flaws; a place of redemption. But it was about doing this in their lifetime, not in some tenuous afterlife period, surely this is more poignant?. The culmination of this is shown with Jack finally managing to fix something without regret or remorse - he is content. I suppose the island is a purgatory where you are judged to be good or evil, but only in the same way that life is like that too.

I think it is pretty clear that they can't have had the foresight to know they'd have six seasons, it seems unfair to do otherwise. Of course they will have had contingencies. Though if they do claim that, then shame on them. There are obviously points where significant changes were made - Ben, for example.

Nice responses, and that does clear a few little things up. But i'm not sure I buy that MiB wanted to end all existence - that doesn't really make any sense. Through his flashbacks we discover that he had a bond with the people, and wanted to leave the island, to experience a normal life. I don't see why him turning into the smoke monster, etc etc, would lead to him wanted to end all life on earth. I think it's more about him wanting to be released from his immortal form - he wanted the plug to be unplugged so that he could become mortal, that WAS his escape from 'the island'. At least that's how I read it. And I considered he was going to the boat to try and reach the real world, something he always wanted to do. Whether the world ending because 'the light went out' was a consequence or a side effect of that is not important, I don't buy that it was his primary intention. I'm not even sure I buy that it's what would have happened, although the mother implied it. I don't know. The thing is if MiB wanted just to leave the island or become mortal or whatever, then it's irrelevant because the world would have ended. So maybe he did want to end all existence by unplugging the core, but that wasn't really put across very well. His intentions and reasons behind his actions are pretty much at odds with his flashback IMO.

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I hate the way that most of the show's questions have basically been answered by "Woo! Magic cave!". It's like BSG's "God did it" but even worse.

What was the secret of the island? Magic cave!

What caused the plane to crash? Magic cave!

What caused the time travelling? Magic cave!

What was Jacob trying to protect? Magic cave!

What was the origin of the smoke monster? Magic cave!

Why did the island heal people? Magic cave!

Why was there a polar bear on the island? Magic cave!

Why could no-one have children on the island? Magic cave!

Why did Juliet only have one facial expression? Magic cave!

And so on.

Actually, the one thing I don't understand is: what was the point of the candidates anyway? How exactly did Jacob "protect" the cave and how were the candidates supposed to do this? Why couldn't Smokey just leave the island whenever he wanted?

I can understand the show not resolving mysteries that were raised early on (though it should have bloody well tried to do so) but not answering the key questions of its final series is very poor.

Replace Magic Cave with large pockets of electromagnetism. Does that make it better? The cave was just one of the outlets of it.

I'm also guessing that the location where the MIB's body and Jack ended up after being down in the cave was like some smaller version of the Donkey Wheel energy release, transporting the body elsewhere.

Oh, yeah, and let's also not forget that in this show of science that they moved a fucking island by turning a wheel in a frozen cave which then caused people to jump through time. Yeah, a magic cave is such a massive leap from this.

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By the end it seemed to be NOTHING matters. Because at the end of the day you'll get to meet up with all your old friends and live happily ever after in a magical after world.

No, you won't. In order to do that you must create amazingly strong bonds with people, love and hate, feel joy and pain and eventually forgive. That's the "let go".

Is it so hard to see a deeper message in this, even if you don't agree with it? :P

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Yea, same here. BSG has been on my to watch list for a while and like many shows, I've been putting it off till Lost finished.

It finished over a year ago. How long are people not allowed to say anything about it? If you make the decision not to watch it, you must also be prepared to hear stuff about it from people who have watched it. It's unreasonable to expect it to not be spoiled well over a year after it ended.

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The polar bear - wasn't that cleared up? I thought Dharma were bringing animals onto the island and experimenting with their intelligence levels (remember those cages Saywer and Kate ended up in?).

That was my take, anyway.

Yes. There was also speculation that polar bears were used to turn the donkey wheel as that's why the polar bear skeleton wound up in the tunisian desert.

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Replace Magic Cave with large pockets of electromagnetism. Does that make it better? The cave was just one of the outlets of it.

No, not really, because electromagnetism is a pretty well understood force whereas a Magic Cave is a Magic Cave. The writers shouldn't be able to use "electromagnetism" as the cause of whatever they want it to be.

Oh, yeah, and let's also not forget that in this show of science that they moved a fucking island by turning a wheel in a frozen cave which then caused people to jump through time. Yeah, a magic cave is such a massive leap from this.

Thing is, that was one of the questions. What is the donkey wheel and why does turning it cause time travel? Whereas the Magic Cave turned out to be the answer to everything, and it's a shit answer.

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It finished over a year ago. How long are people not allowed to say anything about it? If you make the decision not to watch it, you must also be prepared to hear stuff about it from people who have watched it. It's unreasonable to expect it to not be spoiled well over a year after it ended.

I accept that, and thus is why I haven't made a song and dance about it. Still, I'd be hesitant about speaking of any endings to anything simply because this is not the thread to be discussing them in.

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Thing is, that was one of the questions. What is the donkey wheel and why does turning it cause time travel? Whereas the Magic Cave turned out to be the answer to everything, and it's a shit answer.

Agreed. It's pretty much akin to them getting into the magic cave and just finding the number 42 carved into the wall. Although that would've been brilliant.

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Agreed. It's pretty much akin to them getting into the magic cave and just finding the number 42 carved into the wall. Although that would've been brilliant.

If this thread has proven one thing, it's that most of us here have poured more thought and imagination into the show than the writers ever did.

I feel like I've spent 6 years watching a goose cooking, and then been offered the gravy with salad.

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Basically, there's two kinds of unanswered question, and I would argue neither of them particularly need answers.

1) Niggling questions. So, I would say stuff like the supply drop falls into this category. We don't know explicitly how it happened, but by connecting a couple of dots you can infer what happened. I couldn't believe that after "Across the Sea" people were complaining that they didn't know who completed the donkey wheel. What happened was that either MiB convinced one of the groups of people who have come to the island since then to do it, or in the 2000 years or whatever he had to kill time he just went down there and did it himself. Do you really need that spelled out for you?

2) Large questions about the origins of the Island and/or detailed scientific explanations about the phenomena on the Island. The reason there's no answer for these questions is that there can be no answer. The show is fiction. In reality, the Island could not exist, because all the crazy shit that happens on it is impossible. There is no plausible explanation for any of it short of God or aliens did it. And those would be rubbish. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't make a show about something like this, it just means they shouldn't tell us in detail how it all came about.

There are exceptions to this of course - I am a bit disappointed that there really is no explanation for Walt's weirdness. But I feel pretty satisfied with what Lost answered in the end.

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I couldn't believe that after "Across the Sea" people were complaining that they didn't know who completed the donkey wheel. What happened was that either MiB convinced one of the groups of people who have come to the island since then to do it, or in the 2000 years or whatever he had to kill time he just went down there and did it himself. Do you really need that spelled out for you?

I don't believe that's people's problem with the donkey wheel. It's that it's a non-explanation again; that someone built it is obvious. People wanted to know why the donkey wheel was built. The explanation given was by MiB was that "he just knew" that it would get him off the island. This was even before he was "magical".

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Ok, a couple of questions, which have probably already been answered:

Why could women not give birth on the island?

Why was there an Egyptian statue with 6 toes?

No reason given for either. But in the spirit of Lost 'explanations':

1). Electromagnetism

2). Egyptians like building statues with 6 toes.

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I don't believe that's people's problem with the donkey wheel. It's that it's a non-explanation again; that someone built it is obvious. People wanted to know why the donkey wheel was built. The explanation given was by MiB was that "he just knew" that it would get him off the island. This was even before he was "magical".

I don't think there could ever be an explanation for it. It's a wheel in a wall that moves an island and transports the turner to Tunisia. It's such a crazy notion that you just have to kind of accept it or not.

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Ι agree, but my point was that you can ask questions that their answers simply lie in the mythology and you just accept them.

You can ask "how did Gandalf stop the Balrog? How did he know such spell?" and the answer would be "he is a great mage, in fact he is not even human". That's accepted.

I agree that the mythology needed better explanations for many stuff, but I kinda like, for a TV show, that so many things are only hinted at.

I see that and don't mind not exactly knowing how the battle was won. But the thing is we know what they are (well, if we don't mention the wings), their history and how they fit into the mythology. So there's enough to know this was an epic battle between two ancient forces, one of the wisest and greatest Maia and one of the most feared evils in the mythology. For me it was just missing that base level of explanation, which I think could have easily been given in the Jacob and brother episode.

Sticking with LoTR Lost is a bit like Tom Bombadil, there's seemingly no explanation or reasoning to it, it just is. As part of a story that's fine, the mystery and discussion is interesting. But personally I don't like it as a base for a story I prefer a bit more, I don't need to know the exact mechanics of the magic cave, but how it fits into the world and how the people around it fit in would be nice.

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I have to say a lot of people's criticisms and questions in this thread is just a result of lazy viewing. Watch the whole series again and you'll be able to piece all the things together. Those still asking about the numbers and the polar bear... :P

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It finished over a year ago. How long are people not allowed to say anything about it? If you make the decision not to watch it, you must also be prepared to hear stuff about it from people who have watched it. It's unreasonable to expect it to not be spoiled well over a year after it ended.

Places like IMDB cover and tag their spoilers for movies and shows indefinitely. I think it's unreasonable to say in fairly explicit terms what the ending to a show is in a topic for another show. It's not hard to use spoiler code and tag it accordingly. It should be common courtesy. Yes, we make the decision to not watch them yet and we make the decision to stay out of those topics. Having it spoiled in a topic for a different show is not a decision we make, it's one the spoiler makes for us.

And a year is nothing, really. I still haven't seen Twin Peaks or The Prisoner, and I'd be slightly annoyed if I found out the endings beforehand, thus I stay out of their topics.

Heh, I only saw Psycho for the first time last year, and the ending totally floored me! Incredible!

----

Re: The Lost finale. I thought it was touching, heartwarming and very 'final', but it did leave me feeling a bit empty and unsatisfied at the same time. I suspect I will be pondering its meanings and messages for some time to come.

When is the boxset coming out? :P

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