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Lost - The Full Series Thread


Goose
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What about Hurley's 'curse' which we were told was caused by the numbers? Just all a coincidence?

I don't get this. I mean, I understand people feeling slighted that all the Walt stuff made no sense, and that purgatory seems a cop out, but this was clearly meant to be up for interpretation. I can't even think how this could be satisfactorily answered.

Magic cave!

It's not as though the show took a massive swerve with this stuff in the finale.

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I disagree with that. If it's always been a character piece, then why set it on some amazing island of mystery, and why bother setting up those mysteries in such a complex fashion in the first place if they're secondary to the character motivations?

The setting drives the conflict that makes the characters come to life. Why set Romeo and Juliet amid two households in Verona rather than just about two people? Same reason. And also, for the same reason as why the Island doesn't really matter, Verona is just the stage for Romeo and Juliet's characters to intertwine and unravel. The stage is only useful in so far as its a stage.

That's why Lost was a ensemble piece as opposed to, for example, the X-Files. The X-Files was much more about place, conspiracy theory and etc, and a quest to find the external truth. Whereas Lost was far more about people trying to find hope/meaning/peace. The mystery threaded everything together but it was always ultimately about the people and not the Island itself.

Having the writers dream up a whole slew of mysteries that are not resolved in a satisfactory way for many viewers is not something you can brush under the carpet by saying, "oh, didn't you realise it was all a character piece all along? Those numbers, that smoke, the island that can teleport? Oh that was all just window dressing...". That's a poor excuse IMO.

It's a perfectly legitimate dramatic technique. George Lucas's Empire was only ever as big as a concept as it needed to be to convey a terrible evil in the original Star Wars trilogy (i.e. before it all got fucked up with detail). Taken from a hard-plot or detail point of view, most of it falls apart (random example: AT-ATs are the stupidest kind of tank/assault vehicle known to man) but as a soft stage to backdrop a heroes and villains tale it works perfectly.

The Island is similar: It's only as big or clever as it needs to be in order to explain the character drama, and not a blade of grass more, because it's there for exploring the people. This starts to become a bit overly apparent later when it seems like Jacob and MiB can basically do anything but don't do so because of fairly-hazy rules (as seen in the CJ episode) and treads a wee bit into deus ex machina territory more than a few times.

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The mysteries were very much part of the show, in fact it was split down the middle when it comes to characters and mystery. I bet the writers would love you on their side to defend the show with 'oh, all that stuff we wanted you to care about, forget that. It's was about the characters all along'

No, just no.

I'm sure they would, but it remains the case. There's a lot of loose sub-plots left hanging around. There's the fairy deus ex machina stuff with Jacob's lighthouse late on to basically stitch together a reason for the numbers (which had not been seen at all in 2 or 3 seasons) and so on.

Whatever Lost is or was, a coordinated mystery show is not one of its core traits. It was more of a spongy-soft mystery whose purpose was always to facilitate character development rather than a hard mystery like, say Damages season 1.

I do think that at the end of S3 (when the flashbacks flipped to flashforwards) that it suddenly picked up the pace and became more urgent, but that was at a natural point where the past-facing character development had mostly run its course and it was time to start bringing them toward a climax. Like a really long novel.

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This thread seems to go on in cycles now...

ANYWAY!:

[yt]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

Enjoy. I kinda did.

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X2. If this was a "character piece" why have a sci fi / mystery element at all? Revolutionary Road didn't have any time travel did it?

I call shenanigans.

I think this says way more about your assumptions of what stories should be rather than just taking on board what they are.

By "your" here I mean the collection of posters bringing this mystery idea and its requirements to the table, not you personally clarky75. It's like you all thought you were watching Sherlock Holmes when in fact you were being shown a Dickensian tale.

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Hurley and his parents seemed to be on good terms once he was back in S4/5, after reconnecting with his dad and the money issue forgotten.

I would have said his parents loved his money, not Hurley.

What about Hurley's 'curse' which we were told was caused by the numbers? Just all a coincidence?

maybe it was aided by Jacob in some way.

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Totally agree. To say the characters are the only thing that really mattered, and what the show is centrally about, are in denial IMO. Maybe that was true in S1 (and maybe to an extent in S2) they very deliberately switched the emphasis from S3 onwards. If they never planned to make most of the mystery of the island relevant or explain a lot of it, why bother making it a 'supernatural' island in the first place. It doesn't appear to me after seeing the finale that the supernatural properties of the island are intrinsically linked to the existence of the limbo, unless Hurley created it. But if he did that's pretty weak, because we have no idea how he could possibly have the power to do that. The point is, they could have been all stuck in a prison in the middle of the desert with absolutely nothing beyond understandable, every-day occurences happening, yet the ending could apply to that also. The only thing it serves to show is that they had a weird, shared experience together and all that other quasi-emotional gumff.

Again, see other post about why create a setting. Different kinds of setting drive different kinds of dramatic interaction, which in turn develop characters in different ways.

Let's be clear here, however: The setting always used just enough justification to keep going. There's a lot of coincidences, chance meetings, synchronicities and so on passing through it all the time. It's been quite obvious for a while that the setting basically had a spongiform quality, that it was deliberately simple setup that could be used in any way to tell great stories about people. Like that underwater station. Or Jacob's lighthouse. Or the lets-move-the-island room.

It's a mythological kind of construct, basically, soft and spongy rather than hard fact realism. It has always and very obviously been so.

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I don't get this. I mean, I understand people feeling slighted that all the Walt stuff made no sense, and that purgatory seems a cop out, but this was clearly meant to be up for interpretation. I can't even think how this could be satisfactorily answered.

Clearly meant to be up for interpretation? Please. Yet another way of excusing the writers for a non-answer.

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Clearly meant to be up for interpretation? Please. Yet another way of excusing the writers for a non-answer.

On the other hand, how would a definate answer to the numbers have any impact on the overall story arc? The number are, to me, a perfect example of one of the shows' mysteries that are better left unexplained. Demystifying them would would take all the fun out of trying to figure out what the hell they were about. But hey, that might be me...

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Again, see other post about why create a setting. Different kinds of setting drive different kinds of dramatic interaction, which in turn develop characters in different ways.

Let's be clear here, however: The setting always used just enough justification to keep going. There's a lot of coincidences, chance meetings, synchronicities and so on passing through it all the time. It's been quite obvious for a while that the setting basically had a spongiform quality, that it was deliberately simple setup that could be used in any way to tell great stories about people. Like that underwater station. Or Jacob's lighthouse. Or the lets-move-the-island room.

It's a mythological kind of construct, basically, soft and spongy rather than hard fact realism. It has always and very obviously been so.

Nobody is debating any of that. But even if you just focus on the outcome relating to the characters however, it wasn't really a particularly brilliantly done finale - I don't really feel like we got proper closure on all or even most of the characters, mainly just Jack.

The main point is they started to set it up from S3 onwards that everyone had this great destiny that was central to and fuelled by the island and its strange powers, but in that end that never really got fully realised imo. At absolute best they were pawns, but if anything almost all of them really had very little reason to be on the island in the first place.

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Clearly meant to be up for interpretation? Please. Yet another way of excusing the writers for a non-answer.

No, that really, really isn't. If Jacob said "those numbers were a bad luck curse!" or "it wasn't bad luck, it was coincidence!" then, ignoring the fact it would be as clumsy as all other recent answers and 4 seasons too late, it still wouldn't make the show any better. For a start, either option would be fine, it wouldn't change anything and it would be condescending.

Nobody is debating any of that. But even if you just focus on the outcome relating to the characters however, it wasn't really a particularly brilliantly done finale - I don't really feel like we got proper closure on all or even most of the characters, mainly just Jack.

The main point is they started to set it up from S3 onwards that everyone had this great destiny that was central to and fuelled by the island and its strange powers, but in that end that never really got fully realised imo. At absolute best they were pawns, but if anything almost all of them really had very little reason to be on the island in the first place.

We got closure on everyone, unless you need to know what Miles Straum did when he landed (you don't). Your point about them being pawns is true, but that's life. And I know I'm different here, I'd have been happy had we never known what the Alt universe was. I was pissed by the Adam and Eve reveal.

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A couple of questions I'd like to know the answers to:

What was smokey's name? Did I miss that reveal?

Why did everyone forgive Ben? Fucks sake the guy killed Dharma, Locke, Widmore, Jacob and probably some others that I forget. He consistently manipulated and lied to everyone. Then he gets promoted to No.2.

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what did u think of it goose?

Still not seen the finale. We've had house guests but due to unforeseen circumstances they've headed off home early. Probably be able to get round to watching it tomorrow night. Roughly know what happens but haven't dug to far into any specifics.

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Nobody is debating any of that. But even if you just focus on the outcome relating to the characters however, it wasn't really a particularly brilliantly done finale - I don't really feel like we got proper closure on all or even most of the characters, mainly just Jack.

The main point is they started to set it up from S3 onwards that everyone had this great destiny that was central to and fuelled by the island and its strange powers, but in that end that never really got fully realised imo. At absolute best they were pawns, but if anything almost all of them really had very little reason to be on the island in the first place.

I think the great destiny came through though.

They saved the world after all.

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That video makes me not want to watch all the seasons from the beginning again.

God, that would mean watching the episode where Sawyer kills a frog, or Charlie goes insane again. No thanks. I have no idea what to watch now, it looks like Breaking Bad or just playing videogames from here on out. :unsure: I'm going to miss Lost.

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Still not seen the finale. We've had house guests but due to unforeseen circumstances they've headed off home early. Probably be able to get round to watching it tomorrow night. Roughly know what happens but haven't dug to far into any specifics.

what

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I agree that the story needed the characters. Had they been a bunch of boring nondescripts or stereotypes it would have been awful.

Not aimed specifically at yourself FishyFish, but can we put this idea that Lost is some kind of latter-day The Cherry Orchard to bed? Hurley and Locke excepted we've got

A Doctor who can heal everyone but himself

A Conman with a heart of gold

A Murderer on the run for a crime she didn't commit

A Torturer forced to do one last job to save his sweetheart

I could go on.

I love Lost, but the show's characters are hardly multilayered. They're archetypes. It's the mysteries that provide the richness. That's why I'm not heartbroken that we don't know why the statue has four toes, for instance, just a bit disappointed that the final fifteen minutes appeared to turn into Days of our Lives.

Still love the show though. And I'm pretty sure it'll be back - just hoping Brian K Vaughan and David Fury get the call from the mouse.

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Not aimed specifically at yourself FishyFish, but can we put this idea that Lost is some kind of latter-day The Cherry Orchard to bed? Hurley and Locke excepted we've got

A Doctor who can heal everyone but himself

A Conman with a heart of gold

A Murderer on the run for a crime she didn't commit

A Torturer forced to do one last job to save his sweetheart

You missed out:

fat guy.

edit- Locke and Ben were good though

edit 2- wait you didn't even miss him out. Humourous sidekick character upgraded to saviour is right there in the archetype book.

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