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Lost - The Full Series Thread


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Ignoring the fact that the whole thing was pretty ridiculous and far-fetched even by LOST standards, why would they even be able to leave on the plane? It has been hammered home many times, and we have seen for ourselves, that you cannot leave the island unless you have the exact vectors and directions to safely get past the electromagnetic pull. And even then it is touch and go.

I could maybe buy that after the plug was pulled there was a window of opportunity for them to leave by any means or direction (if we presume the power/electromagnetism on the island was disabled) but as we saw, Jack reverted everything back to how it was before at the end, meaning that surely they'd still be fucked in trying to leave on the plane?

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Ignoring the fact that the whole thing was pretty ridiculous and far-fetched even by LOST standards, why would they even be able to leave on the plane? It has been hammered home many times, and we have seen for ourselves, that you cannot leave the island unless you have the exact vectors and directions to safely get past the electromagnetic pull. And even then it is touch and go.

I could maybe buy that after the plug was pulled there was a window of opportunity for them to leave by any means or direction (if we presume the power/electromagnetism on the island was disabled) but as we saw, Jack reverted everything back to how it was before at the end, meaning that surely they'd still be fucked in trying to leave on the plane?

Hurley said something about Desmond not being able to leave, but then Ben said that that was Jacob's rules and now Hurley could make up his own rules now. And as for the electromagnetic pull that brought down flight 815, that went when the hatch blew up.

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Hurley said something about Desmond not being able to leave, but then Ben said that that was Jacob's rules and now Hurley could make up his own rules now. And as for the electromagnetic pull that brought down flight 815, that went when the hatch blew up.

No it didn't, they still had to leave by an exact trajectory when they took the chopper in S4/5. And this was evidenced by Desmond getting fucked around by the electromagnetism again.

The Hurley stuff makes sense I guess. But I wonder why Jacob didn't want anyone to leave. If he didn't, why not just make a rule that nobody can leave full stop. Unless he wanted some degree of control, and to fulfil his plans he could allow certain people to leave at certain times.

The thing is though, it seemed purely scientific in how people figured out how they can get through the 'power' of the island. And that always had a very scientific explanation in the electromagnetism stuff. It seems very much like the Jacob rules is retconning to me. For example why would he want any of the Losties to have left in S4/5, even though they ended up coming back? He's pretty fucked if his candidates bugger off, so why allow that to happen if he's in control?

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The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series.

Maybe there in lies the issue for me. I've loved watching Locke throw himself willingly to the island during the early seasons of the show, but deep down, faith wasn't my choice of route and I looked at the shows science for my understanding. Faraday was a revelation of a character for me, because he seemed hell bent on trying to explain what was going on through maths, science and proof.

So with the show ending on the side of faith, I feel ultimately let down, because faith relies on a person submitting to something without the desire or knowledge of what it is they're submitting to; that's not me and I can't be that person.

It's fascinating that a TV show can take you on this journey. I mean I understand it's all fiction, so any trust in science or faith has no real connection with the world beyond, but it still shows how a persons core character works. We seems fairly split on here, and it seems throughout the internet regarding how we feel about the conclusion to the show. And I suppose that is more telling of how we are as people- Are we sympathetic to faith or fervently scientific.

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No it didn't, they still had to leave by an exact trajectory when they took the chopper in S4/5. And this was evidenced by Desmond getting fucked around by the electromagnetism again.

The Hurley stuff makes sense I guess. But I wonder why Jacob didn't want anyone to leave. If he didn't, why not just make a rule that nobody can leave full stop. Unless he wanted some degree of control, and to fulfil his plans he could allow certain people to leave at certain times.

The thing is though, it seemed purely scientific in how people figured out how they can get through the 'power' of the island. And that always had a very scientific explanation in the electromagnetism stuff. It seems very much like the Jacob rules is retconning to me. For example why would he want any of the Losties to have left in S4/5, even though they ended up coming back? He's pretty fucked if his candidates bugger off, so why allow that to happen if he's in control?

Who flew the helicopter? Lapidus.

Who flew the plane? Lapidus.

Guess he knew the bearing to take.

Jacob was an advocate of free will. They had to come to want to be a candidate by their own actions and choices. If those choices let them off the island then so be it.

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Who flew the helicopter? Lapidus.

Who flew the plane? Lapidus.

Guess he knew the bearing to take.

Jacob was an advocate of free will. They had to come to want to be a candidate by their own actions and choices. If those choices let them off the island then so be it.

I don't really buy that, they wouldn't have even come to want to be candidates had Jacob not forced them onto the island in the first place. Doesn't sound much like free will to me. In fact Jacob has shown himself to be pretty much fully against allowing free will to take over most of the time, seeing as his plans worked in the end, it seems like he knew what he was doing all along - and in fact whether or not it seemed like he was allowing the characters to make their own choices and take their own directions, they were always doing pretty much exactly what he wanted them to. It was just an illusion of free will.

The bearing thing isn't really too important, but i'm suprised it wasn't even mentioned at any point - seemed to me like they wanted to sweep it under the rug tbh. And how would Lapidus remember an exact set of random numbers and figures he needed for the co-ordinates. Not to mention they supposedly were always changing? Like Eloise said in that weird Dharma room in the main world. There are windows of opportunity. And also the island was fucked off its axis or whatever, and skipping through time and all that shit, and it disappeared into the fucking ocean when they were in that chopper, so it wouldn't even be in the same place after Lapidus flew the helicopter that time.

Just slightly irked that a lot of rules and systems they merticulously crafted and emphasised over and over again went out of the window in the finale with little or no explanation. See also why Jack didn't turn into smoke, and why he was spat out of the cave alive. That seemed to only be the case so that they could have him return to his original place where he woke up for a more impacting final shot of the show (which was good and it worked well, but it did seem forced).

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Ignoring the fact that the whole thing was pretty ridiculous and far-fetched even by LOST standards, why would they even be able to leave on the plane? It has been hammered home many times, and we have seen for ourselves, that you cannot leave the island unless you have the exact vectors and directions to safely get past the electromagnetic pull. And even then it is touch and go.

Frank knew the exact vectors and directions as he'd already piloted the helicopter to and from the Island.

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I don't really buy that, they wouldn't have even come to want to be candidates had Jacob not forced them onto the island in the first place. Doesn't sound much like free will to me. In fact Jacob has shown himself to be pretty much fully against allowing free will to take over most of the time, seeing as his plans worked in the end, it seems like he knew what he was doing all along - and in fact whether or not it seemed like he was allowing the characters to make their own choices and take their own directions, they were always doing pretty much exactly what he wanted them to. It was just an illusion of free will.

The bearing thing isn't really too important, but i'm suprised it wasn't even mentioned at any point - seemed to me like they wanted to sweep it under the rug tbh. And how would Lapidus remember an exact set of random numbers and figures he needed for the co-ordinates. Not to mention they supposedly were always changing? Like Eloise said in that weird Dharma room in the main world. There are windows of opportunity. And also the island was fucked off its axis or whatever, and skipping through time and all that shit, and it disappeared into the fucking ocean when they were in that chopper, so it wouldn't even be in the same place after Lapidus flew the helicopter that time.

Just slightly irked that a lot of rules and systems they merticulously crafted and emphasised over and over again went out of the window in the finale with little or no explanation. See also why Jack didn't turn into smoke, and why he was spat out of the cave alive. That seemed to only be the case so that they could have him return to his original place where he woke up for a more impacting final shot of the show (which was good and it worked well, but it did seem forced).

Jacob poked and prodded them to get them where he needed them, but at the end, the choice to become a candidate was there own.

Why would the bearing change when the island moved? The island's pockets of electromagnetism would negate any changes to the location of the island in a geographical sense as shown by compasses not working properly.

And finally, Jack wasn't dead in the cave. The MIB was. Like the illness that corrupted Sayeed and Rousseau's crew, they had to be dead to be contaminated with the illness/smokey shit.

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Frank knew the exact vectors and directions as he'd already piloted the helicopter to and from the Island.

And he knew the exact way out because he WAS FUCKING AWESOME. Hell, one of the many things he did was manage to piece together a fucked-up plane during an earthquake in less than one hour, A-Team and duct tape-style, so people shouldn't be asking trivia like

"But how did he know the trajectory?!"

'Fuck yeah!'

\

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Jacob poked and prodded them to get them where he needed them, but at the end, the choice to become a candidate was there own.

Why would the bearing change when the island moved? The island's pockets of electromagnetism would negate any changes to the location of the island in a geographical sense as shown by compasses not working properly.

And finally, Jack wasn't dead in the cave. The MIB was. Like the illness that corrupted Sayeed and Rousseau's crew, they had to be dead to be contaminated with the illness/smokey shit.

So are you saying he was dead when Jacob threw him into the river and he drifted down there? I got the vibe that he was only knocked unconcious, which begs the question of how he died - I assumed it was exposure to the source of the island, the same exposure Jack had. Which was why it seemed inconsistent to me. Maybe I need to rewatch the MiB episode/whole 6th season.

Hell, one of the many things he did was manage to piece together a fucked-up plane during an earthquake in less than one hour, A-Team and duct tape-style, so people shouldn't be asking trivia like

"But how did he know the trajectory?!"

Like I said it's not particularly important, but to me it comes across as just another slight niggling inconsistency which suggests much of this finale and final resolution was planned last-minute with little regard to what went on pre S6. With most of the final events on the island bending the rules/expectations of what can or can not happen on the island just for maximum emotional or dramatic impact.

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I imagine that, from a writing point-of-view, the only reason Lapidus was returned to the island was so that they had someone who could plausibly fly them out again.

I'm glad Lapidus proved to be so important at the end. He was pure skill. In fact, the escapades of Miles, Frank and Richard ended up being the best bit of the finale by far. No mystical twaddle, just some dudes trying to fly a knackered plane the fuck away from the island before it blew up.

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Lost Finale Explained Well!

This was posted by a Writer from Bad Robot that worked on lost (not by me in any way)…

First … The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people’s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a “Protector”. Jacob wasn’t the first, Hurley won’t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still … Dharma’s purpose is not “pointless” or even vague. Hell, it’s pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his “candidates” (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of “candidates” through the decades and letting them “choose” which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn’t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector — I know that’s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won’t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he’d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we’ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on …

Now…

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least — because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer’s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we’re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it’s not exactly the best word). But these people we’re linked to are with us duing “the most important moments of our lives” as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It’s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this “sideways” world where they exist in purgatory until they are “awakened” and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show’s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own “Sideways” purgatory with their “soulmates” throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That’s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren’t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It’s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events — not JUST because of Jacob. But because that’s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that’s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer’s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways “purgatory” with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died — some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley’s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are “awakened” and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren’t in the chuch — basically everyone who wasn’t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here’s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It’s possible that those links aren’t people from the island but from their other life (Anna’s parnter, the guy she shot — Roussou’s husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church … and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I’ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I’ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don’t touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story — even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

this piece by the bad robot writer was pretty interesting, but draws attention to fact that IT was NEEDED to explain the mess of the season 6.

The last 17 episodes should have told us ALL THAT, with no need for explanation. I still find the idea of the alt reality to be the lamest conceit this program has produced.

ALL IN ALL this season has been a mess.

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that piece by the bad robot writer was pretty interesting, but draws attention to fact that IT was NEEDED to explain the mess of the season 6.

The last 17 episodes should have told us ALL THAT, with no need for explanation. I still find the idea of the alt reality to be the lamest conceit this program has produced.

ALL IN ALL this season has been a mess.

Eh? All that piece did was confirm what several of us in here have been saying since seeing the show.

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Re:Pob and Lapidus' gang in final ep. Agree. In part I think it's satisfying because it's a pretty focussed objective Frank, Miles and Richard set themselves, and they pursue it with a single minded approach. Compare with Flocke, who spends the final season telling characters he's doing something different every episode, seemingly. I don't even know what his motivation for helping Desmond to the plug - surely he must have known it would mean he'd become killable? Any help appreciated.

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Like I said it's not particularly important, but to me it comes across as just another slight niggling inconsistency which suggests much of this finale and final resolution was planned last-minute with little regard to what went on pre S6. With most of the final events on the island bending the rules/expectations of what can or can not happen on the island just for maximum emotional or dramatic impact.

I think you're being somewhat obstinate with this. Why is it so hard to piece the two things together:

Frank knew the coordinates to get off the island.

The bearing would not change as the electromagnetism on the island was not subject to the laws of the rest of the physical world no matter where on the globe it happened to be.

Would it have been better if at some point Frank would have glibly said, "Good job I remember the co-ordinates to get off this damn rock!"

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this piece by the bad robot writer was pretty interesting, but draws attention to fact that IT was NEEDED to explain the mess of the season 6.

The last 17 episodes should have told us ALL THAT, with no need for explanation. I still find the idea of the alt reality to be the lamest conceit this program has produced.

ALL IN ALL this season has been a mess.

But it seems most people got exactly what he wrote from just watching the show.

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Re:Pob and Lapidus' gang in final ep. Agree. In part I think it's satisfying because it's a pretty focussed objective Frank, Miles and Richard set themselves, and they pursue it with a single minded approach. Compare with Flocke, who spends the final season telling characters he's doing something different every episode, seemingly. I don't even know what his motivation for helping Desmond to the plug - surely he must have known it would mean he'd become killable? Any help appreciated.

Only way he could get off the island was to become mortal. Risk he had to take.

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Only way he could get off the island was to become mortal. Risk he had to take.

I wonder if MiB thought that it would still be Jacob in charge at the end when Desmond moved the stone, and gambling on the fact that his brother wouldn't have the stomach to kill him? It all unraveled for him when Jack took over, up to that point he could just carry on moving goalposts and taking the piss as long as it ended with him, Desmond and Jacob by the cave.

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Not sure if it was the last ditch attempt. I guess FLocke thought that seeing as a new candidate had come on board, it was time to go to the end game.

As for Jack, he put his faith in Jacob's plan, which was to get Desmond to do what he needed to do, and that would allow him to destory Flocke. I don't think Jack was fully aware of what it would do to FLocke but he had faith that it would allow him to kill the monster.

I'm not sure he knew it would happen. He seemed surprised to be bleeding when Jack hit him.

That's a fair point, but it might also have just been the fact that it was the first time someone had been able to hurt him in 2000 years that surprised him.

I wonder if MiB thought that it would still be Jacob in charge at the end when Desmond moved the stone, and gambling on the fact that his brother wouldn't have the stomach to kill him? It all unraveled for him when Jack took over, up to that point he could just carry on moving goalposts and taking the piss as long as it ended with him, Desmond and Jacob by the cave.

Why would he think it would be Jacob at the end when the first part of his plan, to kill Jacob, had worked like a charm?

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Man of faith. Got it.

What does Lostpedia have to say about it?

"Locke assumes Jack is going to try and stop him but Jack admits that he can't and will instead go with him. Locke then thinks Jack doesn't understand what he plans to do, but Jack asserts that he indeed does, that he's going to the light, the place Jack has sworn to protect, and where he thinks he's going to destroy the island. Jack says Locke won't destroy the island and instead he will kill him and that he'll have to wait to find out how.

Sawyer asks Jack how he is going to kill Locke. Jack simply answers, "Desmond" but that he's not yet sure exactly how it's going to work but that he's sure Jacob brought him back not as bait but as a weapon. As the group approaches the Source, Locke draws his knife and says it should just be him, Jack and Desmond from here on. Hurley steps up to Jack and says "I believe in you, dude." Locke comments on the bad storm approaching..."

Story checks out!

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I think the implication from the finale was that the only way he could get off the island was to become mortal and to become mortal the island had to be switched off, so to speak (by removing the plug from the pool). This would be very bad for everyone in the world. Of course, the only way to destroy him was to make him mortal, which is why they needed desmond to remove the plug and then probably put it back again once the job was done.

I got the impression that Smokey wasn't expecting to become mortal again; he seemed somewhat surprised that he was bleeding after Jack punched him.* Although, I guess Smokey's expression could also be read as less surprise and more the sensation of how if feeels to me mortal again after 2000 years.

*In terms of the finale, that was the biggest disappointment for me – Jack's super punch just before the ad break became a limp, little jump in the next cut. Bah.

screenshot20100526at141.png

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the apologists can revel in it's remaining mysteries/plot holes/contradictions all they want.

the island is the show's biggest character - and the writer's completely abandoned it.

none of it mattered, they might as well have been stuck in Blackpool for six years.

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Why would he think it would be Jacob at the end when the first part of his plan, to kill Jacob, had worked like a charm?

He must've known Jacob was still around (in whatever form he was) influencing people, still having some powers and that the Island was still protected by somebody, he also must've know it wasn't one of Jacob's candidates.

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the apologists can revel in it's remaining mysteries/plot holes/contradictions all they want.

the island is the show's biggest character - and the writer's completely abandoned it.

none of it mattered, they might as well have been stuck in Blackpool for six years.

Whatever, man. You've clearly made up your mind, and that's fine by me. I'm not an apologist though. Please leave the petulant name calling out of this.

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Whatever, man. You've clearly made up your mind, and that's fine by me. I'm not an apologist though. Please leave the petulant name calling out of this.

We've been 'apologists' and 'bullshit acceptors' so far, I expect we'll get worse before this thread dies.

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Ah man, Lost became a dangerous programme as soon as it started entertaining internet nerds.

Sure there have been disappointments but when I think back to the show as a whole, it's been a fantastic ride and one I'm glad I invested time in.

There's never been a show quite like Lost.

I'll miss it.

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I presumed that smokey's plan originally went as far as killing Jacob, he had tried a direct approach with Richard which only ended with a butler for Jacob. So he then had to create more complex levels of manipulation. As to then being able to leave the island, this all then had to be done on the fly, with actions to ensure that no other threats could result in this not happening.

This season's real undoing has to be the crap and contradictory explanations of Jacob/MIB set-up. The crux of all their decisions seems to lie with an unbalanced mother. She had demonstrated that the killing and manipluation of others was fair game. She had set the rules, which only appear to be in force, because Jacob/MIB believe them to be. i.e MIB can't leave the island, Jacob has immortality, they can't kill each other etc.

There'd be a lot more rationale to the decision making and why things are that way if Jacob/MIB had been portrayed as literally black and white, good and evil, yin and yang. Instead you have a justified MIB seeking revenge and simply just wanting to leave. And Jacob bringing people to the island, dying pawns in his overall objective of resetting his original cock-up.

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