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Can MMORPG's really evolve further?


MrSpoon
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How many chairs will they have for a captain?! :ph34r: Once someone's captain he sure won't be getting out till he's done with the game.

They'd have to be a fuckload of ships to make sure everyone who wants to be captain can be, and then there definately won't be 150 players doing all the other ranks on the ships.

Can't we have ships full of NPCs and players? Or maybe even let many of the jobs be automated if there's no player to carry them out - players could be made more effective than the computer (especially if they're trying hard), but lack of players wouldn't cripple a ship. You'd probably have enough players of low rank at any one time to make the ship not seem empty. And if not, you could shrink the ships a bit, but place the emphasis on small fleets of vessels ranging from tiny fighters to big carriers.

I think it would be important to make any little task mini-game seem like a good representation of the task, rather than something abstract that just means something not really connected is done. I'm sure people could be quite inventive though! Having said that, the standard Federation interface jobby might be enough to involve many people, and it would be relatively trivial to make up a whole system of screens and menus that allowed access to the various functions needed and which could be extended as necessary - just prioritising a job, diagnosing the problem, and pressing the right buttons might be quite diverting, if it was immersive enough.

Better still would be if jobs involved more than just using an on-board computer - find where the problem is (they're always crawling around in tubes and climbing ladders to get to the right trouble spot, after all), get the parts needed to fix it, and dash to fit them before something goes boom. Repelling borders, manning cannon (not a lot of that on the Enterprise, though), I reckon it could all work, theoretically...

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The biggest problem with designing any massively multiplayer game afaict would be dealing with the fact that a depressingly large fraction of the player base are guaranteed to complete, utter fuckheads.

Not from my experience of SWG. But as for something a lot simpler like Xbox Counter-Strike on Live - I have never met a bigger collection of Yank fuckheads in my life. I suppose the difference is my SWG server is European where as CS is anybody and everybody world wide. (I know these games are from different genres but it is just a comparison).

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I've never actually played a MMORPG but to be honest, the desire to make them more like real life just seems pointless.

If you make the games so realistic, players would be in the same jobs for decades, in order to work up the ranks. New games will come along and player numbers will fall.

I do not believe anyone who says it would be fun to play as a chef or a cleaner in a game for 2 hours a day. Its supposed to be fun!

With regards to ranks, usually MMORPGs run out of new players don't they? so eventually everyone will become high/maximum rank and so no-one would want to do the menial lower-end jobs.

Also, i'm aware that the trouble with all the new MMORPGs being released now, there simply aren't enough players to maintain the realistic environment most players want, let alone one with even MORE jobs/positions that REQUIRE being filled.

All these fantastic games will all have about 20 players each!

I think instead of simply making more jobs that are boring or repetitive, they should improve the systems of levelling up or something. Don't ask me how though.

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The sentiment that virtually all MMOGs are cut from the same EverQuest cloth is sadly true.

In some ways, the whole approach has been wrong. Games like EQ and RO are basically sandpits with millions of tokenistic items and monsters scattered around. FFXI, Eve and SWG (and ATOTD of course) sound like they're making the first steps to actually giving the players tools to interact with the game world in an organised, freeform way.

An idea I've been thinking about is an MMOG where the entity of 'a hierarchical organisation of players' (like guilds, or EVE's corporations) is totally configurable. So, you could build say, an organised crime network, or a police department, or a legitimate trading empire, or an army, or a news network, or any hybrid thereof, by players applying the right responsibilities to their organisation.

I think the Boring Star Trek Jobs problem could be more directly solved by using NPCs. (Um, someone's mentioned that already. Arse.) It could be like Star Control, with expendable crew members.

Also, admirals don't get to pilot fighter craft. It's about choice, not hierarchically richer experiences.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is players attachment to their character beyond being a repository for XP and items. There need to be more mechanisms for giving semi-permanent and permanent disadvantage to a player of they fuck up.

"It seems to me that everyone that plays a MMORPG must all have the equal ability of experiencing the whole game." I'm not sure about this. It leads to horrible featureless generalisation in single player games, and seems to do the same in MMOGs.

A final point, there is some merit in making MMOGs more like 'real life' - giving people recognisable reference points. Worked for GTA. For a counterpoint, look at AO - full of ridiculous, totally unintuitive shit (because it's just EQ in sci-fi trousers).

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The biggest problem with designing any massively multiplayer game afaict would be dealing with the fact that a depressingly large fraction of the player base are guaranteed to complete, utter fuckheads. Making a game fun, while simultaneously making sure that the aforementioned fuckheads can't ruin the experience totally for everyone they meet is a task i personally wouldn't want to have to do...

Yes, but if someone was to decide they wanted to shoot someone in the face with their phaser rather than do what they were told they would be court-martialed. Kicked-out and not allowed back with that group. Whether that means they join terrorists then fine because you could hunt them down and kill them (with Starfleet command's permission of course). That way you don't get many nobbers in Starfleet/Romulan military/Klingon military/Cardassian, ad infinitum.

People also have gotten a bit stuck on one aspect of my suggestion. You don't have to play that aspect. As Sprite said you could just loll around on Earth talking to people like you would in EverQuest or whatever. I'm thinking on a much bigger scale.

Also, admirals don't get to pilot fighter craft. It's about choice, not hierarchically richer experiences.

Exactly, there is an advantage to every role. You might not want to issue orders cos it's dull to you, you might want to blast things out of the sky instead.

I sort of take therearerules' point because it may turn out you have to draw the line somewhere in the pursuit of realism. That said if it is a fantasy world you like you may not see it as a chore.

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I must admit that I have never really been a fan of the conventional fantasy settings of conventional RPGs and the original MMORPGs of Ultima and even Everquest. As much as anything they gave (the impression of) a completely naff US view of merry 'Albion', ale, yocals, wizards, paladins at al. Christ, I don't really rate The Lord of The Rings films because in my view they really missed a lot of what Tolkein was about. I really tried hard to play Balders Gate 2 but found it ultimately boring and everything dungeons and dragons at its worst.

I have always liked Japanese rpgs though, Final Fantasy in particular, and in many respects that was why I bought FFXI. But having dome so I think I finally 'get' MMORPGs and what they're all about. Having the right PC and internet connection helps too mind but with FFXI I feel like I've finally found the perfect game. Although you have some of the traditional classes of race and job, its doesn't feel hick at all and all of the choices open to you feel absolutely right and well balanced.

A lot of the criticism on this thread of MMORPGs is based on biased unplayed views or are just outdated. Equally some of the views on what a MMORPG should be just are plain daft. If your PC can run FFXI, just buy it and play it. Get a dualshock adaptor too if you can. In my view it could be my best game ever and everyone should try and experience such brilliance.

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I must admit that I have never really been a fan of the conventional fantasy settings of conventional RPGs and the original MMORPGs of Ultima and even Everquest. As much as anything they gave (the impression of) a completely naff US view of merry 'Albion', ale, yocals, wizards, paladins at al. Christ, I don't really rate The Lord of The Rings films because in my view they really missed a lot of what Tolkein was about. I really tried hard to play Balders Gate 2 but found it ultimately boring and everything dungeons and dragons at its worst.

I have always liked Japanese rpgs though, Final Fantasy in particular, and in many respects that was why I bought FFXI. But having dome so I think I finally 'get' MMORPGs and what they're all about. Having the right PC and internet connection helps too mind but with FFXI I feel like I've finally found the perfect game. Although you have some of the traditional classes of race and job, its doesn't feel hick at all and all of the choices open to you feel absolutely right and well balanced.

A lot of the criticism on this thread of MMORPGs is based on biased unplayed views or are just outdated. Equally some of the views on what a MMORPG should be just are plain daft. If your PC can run FFXI, just buy it and play it. Get a dualshock adaptor too if you can. In my view it could be my best game ever and everyone should try and experience such brilliance.

Are you me?

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Are you me?

I must be!

Talking of FFXI Pungee I dug myself into a fucking huge hole over the weekend. I tried to run to Jeuno from Windhurst on my tod (I'm level 8 at the minute) and got as far as the outpost at the top of Meriphataud Mountains and somewhat recklessly set my home point there. I then proceeded to try and get through the monsters in Sauromugue by just running round them, even though anyone of them could kill me on the spot. Got close once I think but basically was killed three times in succession (but didn't quite level down). Chickened out and decided to run back to Windhurst but with my homepoint now miles north - made it but at one point my HP was down to 7! I think I'll leave that journey for a while.

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