Dawn of the Dead

[jeff mills gran]

Does anyone have any info on the supposed 4-disc special edition due out later this year?

yes.

it has 4 times more zombies! yay!

[squirtle]

Went to see this t'other night.

First, the original.

I'm no great fan of the original. It's ok, but has aged quite badly. You can argue all you want that it's a biting satire, but just because it's a Zombie film with a subtext does not make it a great film. It lacks pace and any kind of tension, and in some places is just plain dull. Now, I know you can say that the form of the film is mirroring or highlighting the on screen non-action as the film slows down to show how the four people in the mall are coping with life cooped up, but this does not make it very interesting to watch. It has it's moments, a great beginning and a good end but the middle half of the film is really quite dull. In my opinion, Argento's shorter, punchier (and featuring the better score by Goblin) is far better.

And so on to the new one...

Well, it's ok. Some nice touches but overall far too inconsistent and hole filled to be thoroughly enjoyable. How did they all get out of the gun shop and back down the sewer whilst the guy who was waiting for them get left behind? How come the pregnant woman seemed to take ages to succumb to the bite and yet the father, who seemed perfectly fine one minute was then dead a matter of minutes later. And where was the eating? I want to see people being eaten in a Zombie film. Ripped to pieces and generally massacred. There was none of that. So, after a great pre credit sequence, the film dipped into average action territory. And it had far too many characters as well. So, 2-3 out of 5 from me. It's ok. Not as good as I was hoping it could be.

Hopefully, we'll get a brilliant zombie movie at some point in the future. The best we have so far is Day of the Dead, which as we all know is only half the movie Romero wanted to make. Maybe one day we'll get a full vision of an apocalyptic zombie world...

[Valiant]

There was quite a nice programme on late last night on BBC2 which featured Romero, Hooper, Carpenter, Cronenberg and many other famous names of 70/80's horror discussing their films and the impact, themes and so forth.

Edited April 6, 2004 by Valiant

[super_quincy]

Shite. I hope its repeated

[Valiant]

It was called "The American Nightmare" and was on for about an hour and a half. I think BBC2 were screening it to coincide with all the horror stuff like the Romero films that they are showing at the moment.

[CrispinG]

It was bizarre. Hardly about the films at all, and focused strongly on the social and psychological agendas of the directors. Very stylish, too.

[Valiant]

It was bizarre. Hardly about the films at all, and focused strongly on the social and psychological agendas of the directors. Very stylish, too.

Yes it was nicely done. Cronenberg being called a sexual revolutionary after all the Shivers footage!

He still freaks me out!

*slips on Potato head with zipper mouth and picks up knife*

TAKE ME TO MIDION BOON!

Edited April 6, 2004 by Valiant

[CrispinG]

Cronenberg is my favourite director, ever.

[Comrade]

How come the pregnant woman seemed to take ages to succumb to the bite and yet the father, who seemed perfectly fine one minute was then dead a matter of minutes later.

Er, the father was never zombified. He just went a bit mental when his wife had become a zombie and given birth to a zombie baby. And he ended up getting shot by that woman.

[CrispinG]

Er, the father was never zombified. He just went a bit mental when his wife had become a zombie and given birth to a zombie baby. And he ended up getting shot by that woman.

Which was all nonsense, because nothing about his character suggested any sort of Norman Bates-esque tendencies.

[baddie long legs]

Er, the father was never zombified. He just went a bit mental when his wife had become a zombie and given birth to a zombie baby. And he ended up getting shot by that woman.

I think Squirtle is referring to the father of the young teenage girl and not Mekhi Pfifer (don't know the character's name), the guy who was the father of the zombie baby. I'd just like to add that my opinion earlier on was not swayed by favouritism of the original. I haven't seen it for so long that I've forgotten most of it so it didn't cloud my judgement of this reimagining. I still thinks its a bit 'meh'.

Oh, I'd just like to point out that the best zombie baby was in Peter Jackson's 'Brain Dead'. I wept tears of laughter with that one.

[11 Herbs 'n' Spices]

Oh, I'd just like to point out that the best zombie baby was in Peter Jackson's 'Brain Dead'. I wept tears of laughter with that one.

You and I both.

"Your mother ate my dog!" "Not all of it."

I first saw Brain Dead on video when I was about 16. I watched it with my youynger brother who was about 9 at the time. We both found the movie to be hilarious making much noise laughing so hard. My mum came upstairs to see what all the fuss was about just in time to see two zombies shagging on the screen. She just looked at us and walked away shaking her head.

Brain Dead is still my favourite zombie movie although Shaun... looks as though it may change that come Friday.

I'm no great fan of the original. It's ok, but has aged quite badly. You can argue all you want that it's a biting satire, but just because it's a Zombie film with a subtext does not make it a great film. It lacks pace and any kind of tension, and in some places is just plain dull. Now, I know you can say that the form of the film is mirroring or highlighting the on screen non-action as the film slows down to show how the four people in the mall are coping with life cooped up, but this does not make it very interesting to watch. It has it's moments, a great beginning and a good end but the middle half of the film is really quite dull. In my opinion, Argento's shorter, punchier (and featuring the better score by Goblin) is far better.

Couldn't agree more.

I haven't seen Argento's zombie movies so I'll have to keep an eye out for those.

[baddie long legs]

Can't wait for Shaun, after reading the initial reviews this looks like its not going to disappoint. Still, I doubt it could top Brain Dead. My favourite bit...

SPOILER ALERT

When he takes the zombie baby to the park and has to kick the shit out of it.

Had me in convulsions on my bedroom floor. I missed the next 15 mins because I kept bursting into a spontanious fit of giggles. I just kept thinking how in the hell did they get away with it. Very well that its 'cartoony' and OTT but still he's beating the shit out of an infant.

All this talk of zombie movies makes me want to make one for my final project. Zombies + samurai swords =

[squirtle]

Comrade, I was indeed referring to the father and the teenage daughter, not the Mekhi Fifer character.

And 11Herbs, Argento didn't do a separate zombie film, but he did a recut of Dawn of the Dead for Europe, I think, which came in at about 100-114minutes long (can't remember exactly) and rescored it with music by Goblin.

[villenium]

Firstly, the original Dawn was made in the 70s, and I don't see why a satire on commercialism wouldn't be relevant now anyway. It's not as if America's turned into a socialist state in the meantime or anything.

70/80's, it's subtext is still consumerism but what is the point of doing a frame for frame remake of any film? All you'll aim to improve on is stuff like FX, sound, lighting etc. and I don't really see that being worthwhile on any level in this medium.

(It's funny because it works for me in a video game - MGS:TTS, though.)

Anyways, if the period referenced by Romero in the original can be defined as a period of consumerism this decade can be defined as a period of fear. Although to be fair, consumerism is still rife.

[kerraig UK]

I'm no great fan of the original. It's ok, but has aged quite badly. You can argue all you want that it's a biting satire, but just because it's a Zombie film with a subtext does not make it a great film. It lacks pace and any kind of tension, and in some places is just plain dull. Now, I know you can say that the form of the film is mirroring or highlighting the on screen non-action as the film slows down to show how the four people in the mall are coping with life cooped up, but this does not make it very interesting to watch. It has it's moments, a great beginning and a good end but the middle half of the film is really quite dull. In my opinion, Argento's shorter, punchier (and featuring the better score by Goblin) is far better.

I sat Geldra through the original on Monday night as he had never seen it before. i did my best to watch it objectively too (not easy when you've seen a movie over 100 times).

asically, it's fucking incredible. It is so different to every other horror movie ever made, no wonder people dont quite understand it. The soundtrack is utterly whimsical, the main protagonists aren't even scared (they die of complacency), it dares to have character development...etc

I think if you sit down expecting a good old zombie nosh you'll get very bored, but if you go in to it knowing it's it's own movie, you can't level any criticism at it at all.

The closest I can come to criticising is that one of the police on the dock is the worst actor ever, and the sound is in desperate need of a remix.

[kerraig UK]

Hopefully, we'll get a brilliant zombie movie at some point in the future. The best we have so far is Day of the Dead, which as we all know is only half the movie Romero wanted to make. Maybe one day we'll get a full vision of an apocalyptic zombie world...

IMO the Day that got made is MUCh better than the mooted script would ever have been.

[cassidy]

I'll start a topic its on tonight you know.

[kerraig UK]

Doesnt matter, I have the Divimax DVD. Which looks like nothing you've ever seen by the way.

[cassidy]

Kerraig you do it on purpose dont you. Pray tell about this divimax version

[Hitcher]

The Divimax version of Day?

[kerraig UK]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...&s=dvd&n=507846

Honestly, it is fucking INCREDIBLE. You know that zombie at the beginning with half his face missing? you can see his tongue hanging down through his jaw. The caves hav so much texture to them now. it's just such a beautiful transfer (from the original inter-negative!) and the packaging is heavenly.

my favourite DVD.

[cassidy]

Dr Tongue he was refered too in the popular horror press at the time (fangoria,gorezone et all) IIRC. I always wanted to see him in all his glory and was thoroughly disappointed when the UK DVD release sucked. Oh well bye bye birthday money.

[Hitcher]

Day Of The Dead (Divimax Special Edition) (5.1/DTS) £14.99 @ PlayUSA.com

Tempting.

[Jonnyc]

Day Of The Dead (Divimax Special Edition) (5.1/DTS) £14.99 @ PlayUSA.com

Tempting.

I have this, and it's frigging excellent!

Awesome dvd of an awesome film, the special effects segment is very interesting

It's so clear, and you can see so much better the excellent make up than on video

[cassidy]

Sold out though at the moment.

[squirtle]

I sat Geldra through the original on Monday night as he had never seen it before. i did my best to watch it objectively too (not easy when you've seen a movie over 100 times).

asically, it's fucking incredible. It is so different to every other horror movie ever made, no wonder people dont quite understand it. The soundtrack is utterly whimsical, the main protagonists aren't even scared (they die of complacency), it dares to have character development...etc

I think if you sit down expecting a good old zombie nosh you'll get very bored, but if you go in to it knowing it's it's own movie, you can't level any criticism at it at all.

The closest I can come to criticising is that one of the police on the dock is the worst actor ever, and the sound is in desperate need of a remix.

I understand it well enough, I still don't think it's that great a film. I stand by my statement. A zombie film with a message does not necessarily make a great film. Yes, it's quite funny in places, the soundtrack is unique, and it is unusual in that it's not so much a horror film, more of a social critique of late seventies culture. But it's still quite dull to watch. And this is where it loses it's appeal. I appreciate the fact that you love it, Kerraig, and that's cool. But to say it cannot be criticised because it's its own movie is a little OTT. Romero is quite obviously an intelligent guy, and along with all the other auteurs in the horror vanguard of the 70's he cut his own niche and influenced a lot of people both at the time and right up to today. But that was more about what he was trying to say rather than any comment on the quality of his films. I have a soft spot for Dawn, but prefer Day in that I found the characters much more interesting and the whole situation far more intense as a viewing experience. Dawn has it's moments, but as whole is too flat to be anything other than disappointing if billed as the best film ever.

[11 Herbs 'n' Spices]

I sat Geldra through the original on Monday night as he had never seen it before. i did my best to watch it objectively too (not easy when you've seen a movie over 100 times).

asically, it's fucking incredible. It is so different to every other horror movie ever made, no wonder people dont quite understand it. The soundtrack is utterly whimsical, the main protagonists aren't even scared (they die of complacency), it dares to have character development...etc

I think if you sit down expecting a good old zombie nosh you'll get very bored, but if you go in to it knowing it's it's own movie, you can't level any criticism at it at all.

The closest I can come to criticising is that one of the police on the dock is the worst actor ever, and the sound is in desperate need of a remix.

It seems your love for the film has made it impossible for you to watch it subjectively!

The original Dawn... is heralded by many as the zombie movie, the definitive of it's genre. Of course people are going to expect zombie nosh.

I also think it's a little arrogant and somewhat pretentious to think that people who don't enjoy it, just don't get it.

"You can't level any criticism at it at all" is a hell of a bold statement for any movie particualry one which has had a number of criticisms already in this thread. As has been mentioned, the satirical view it gives is excellent but other than that it has very little to offer as a horror movie. The god awful make up (even for it's time, it looks bad - people with faces painted blue? Come on!) will put paid to any genuine scares the zombies could potential induce. Granted, the mindless, instinctive lumbering of them is creepy but that effect is lost when the make is bad and the acting to go with it.

I would have to agree your description of the music though, very whimsical. Unfortunately, it is yet another element of the movie that creates unintentional laughter (from me anyway). Watching the black guy on the roof at the end (I forget his name) kick Karate Kid style to that music is one of the funniest things I have seen.

In summary, Dawn... - it's good but not as good as you would expect.

On a related nore, as zombie films have been the part of many discussions recently I have been surprised by the amount of people I have comes across who claim the Dawn... is the best zombie flick yet haven't actually seen it. It's quite disturbing to hear people give the opinions of others as their own.

[kerraig UK]

It seems your love for the film has made it impossible for you to watch it subjectively!

I'd say thats about right

[Hitcher]

I have this, and it's frigging excellent!

Awesome dvd of an awesome film, the special effects segment is very interesting

It's so clear, and you can see so much better the excellent make up than on video

I might have to borrow this next time we meet mate - you've been pre-warned.