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Selling Out


Hardwired
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I guess it's when they lose their 'roots' and sign onto a big record company for mucho profit and generic album x.

All bollocks if you ask me, either like their music or don't... how they decide to run themselves is their own business.

I think it's mainly people who like someone cos no one has heard of them (which must make them cool) and once they get big they've obviously "sold out".

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I guess it's when they lose their 'roots' and sign onto a big record company for mucho profit and generic album x.

Ah, success. What a load of old arse.

That's the whole reason most people join/start bands, isn't it? That and wanting to get laid more regularly.

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Its not so much, the suddenly becoming famous part.

More the bands that completely change their style / audience to do so.

Or release an obviously commercial single to attempt to break into the mainstream.

Surely most recentt 'Sell outs' have to be the black eyed peas?

Edited by WesT
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More the bands that completely change their style / audience to do so.

Or release an obviously commercial single to attempt to break into the mainstream.

But surely if they're still enjoying themselves then this is a good thing? Mainstream success will bring them more money, allow them to have more fun and get the most out of their lives.

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I wouldn't say commercial success is the only reason that people get called sell outs, but it's probably the way the term is used mostly.

I would say it normally used by fans of a band when the band decide to change musical direction. I have used the term myself to describe REM, who were one of my favourite bands when I was a kid in the 80's. The last decent album them made in my opinion was 'Green', anything after that has left me cold.

I'm probably wrong to use the term, but there is a big difference between the music the made back then, to the music they make today. The term is probably used by people like myself when bands you loved change direction and leave you wondering what would have been.

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But surely if they're still enjoying themselves then this is a good thing? Mainstream success will bring them more money, allow them to have more fun and get the most out of their lives.

Fully agree, its a great thing for the band themselves. Its the fans of the band / artist whatever who feel aggreived their favourite artist no longer produces the style of music they enjoyed anymore.

(id assume, ive never accused a band of being a sell out before,...ahem, untill i just did to the black eyed peas, but i didnt like them to start with)

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selling out is when a band/artist compromises their integrity in the name of commerce. it's a difficult thing to prove. one example is allowing your music to be used in an advert just to make money. another example could be allowing the record company artistic control over releases in order to secure a large advance, or whatever.

then there's the whole boy/girl band, pop idol thing in which these artists (and i use the term loosely) will apparantly do anything in order to become famous or have a hit single.

a lot of the time though bands just becoming crap is mistaken for them selling out, which of course is an entirely different thing.

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Hey Punka (Hey!)

How yer doin'?

Hey Punka (Hey!)

Are you staying true to you

Cos that's what Punkas do

I want to be a Punka too

And if your

Friends all bitch

You're a Punka (Punka!)

If your life is kitsch

You're a Punka (Punka!)

Im a Punka too

Hey Punka (Hey!)

I've got ambition My one wish is to

Be as punk as you when I grow up

If Punkas ever do grow up

And if your hits all miss

You're a Punka (Punka!)

If you dance like this

You're a Punka (Punka!)

I'm a Punka

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

Lo fi songs are great (Punka!)

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

We never learned to play

Cos we're Punka

I wanna be a Punka too

When I grow up

If Punkas ever do

I wanna be

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

Underground cliché (Punka!)

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

We always want to stay (Hey Punka!)

I wanna be a Punka too

When I grow up

If Punkas ever do

I play guitar like

1-2-3-4

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

Lo fi songs are great (Punka!)

P-U-N-K-A (Punka!)

Don't you want to play (Hey Punka!)

I wanna be a Punka too

When I grow up

I WANNA BE

LIKE

YOU

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One example is allowing your music to be used in an advert just to make money.

As opposed to what other reason? Because they love the product?

Personally, I don't see why someone shouldn't allow their tunes in an advert. It's not like they wrote it just for Peugeot, is it.

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As opposed to what other reason? Because they love the product?

Personally, I don't see why someone shouldn't allow their tunes in an advert. It's not like they wrote it just for Peugeot, is it.

well you're right, there are no other reasons for allowing your song to be used in an advert, other than to make money. so that's selling out.

if one associates a particular song with a product, it compromises it's meaning and the bands artistic integrity.

Edited by Andy_Tanner
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one example is allowing your music to be used in an advert just to make money.

Do you know bands that say "no"? Maybe Rollins, or Jello Biafra. Like someone would use their music for an advert...

The only one I remember is The rolling stones. And they were, ahem, sold out long before letting MS put their dirty hands on Start me up.

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The Smiths, Oasis, The Verve. there literally are loads that i've read about over the years.

the one example i use the most though is Low. i couldn't believe they allowed their version of Little Drummer Boy to be used by Gap considering the sleeve notes for the Christmas album included the words "sorry for the commerce involved, consider this our Christmas gift to you". lol

Edited by Andy_Tanner
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The Smiths, Oasis, The Verve. there literally are loads that i've read about over the years.

Didn't know about Low.

I'm pretty sure I heard at least one commercial with Bittersweet Symphony in the back.

The smiths let their best song ever be covered by some shitty band to become the music for a shitty teenage sitcom.

That's worse.

And does someone still care about Oasis?

And remember that they could say it for the UK and let people do it in other countries, a bit like those japanese ads for beer with Kevin Costner...

In fact, I heard Mazzy Star and Sigur ros yesterday in ads. Couldn't care less.

Edited by Heidi
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I'm pretty sure I heard at least one commercial with Bittersweet Symphony in the back.

The smiths let their best song ever be covered by some shitty band to become the music for a shitty teenage sitcom.

That's worse.

And does someone still care about Oasis?

And remember that they could say it for the UK and let people do it in other countries, a bit like those japanese ads for beer with Kevin Costner...

In fact, I heard Mazzy Star and Sigur ros yesterday in ads. Couldn't care less.

yeah their was a massive argument about it. the band were even considering dropping the song from the album at one point. basically Andrew Moog Oldham (think that's his name - The Stones old manager anyway) owns the rights because their song used a sample from an old Stones track (or an orchestral interpretation of one, can't remember) and even though the whole string melody over the top was written by The Verve there was nothing they could do. they get no royalties from that song and they couldn't stop them using it in an advert (or a re-recorded version if memory serves).

i saw The Verve at that massive Wigan homecoming concert were Ashcroft kept shouting "don't buy Vauxhall cars, they're shit!" (or whatever company it was).

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selling out is when a band/artist compromises their integrity in the name of commerce. it's a difficult thing to prove. one example is allowing your music to be used in an advert just to make money. another example could be allowing the record company artistic control over releases in order to secure a large advance, or whatever.

So why do these people start bands then?

Can a band only sell out if, at some point in it's career, it states that it's against all things corporate and commercial?

If it's just a bunch of people making great music, who then happen to allow one of their songs to be used on an advert, have they sold out?

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Lemon Jelly music has been in ads way before they even released .ky

I wouldn't say their music featuring in an advert is selling out, most music in adverts is not known by most/all, hence all the "what is this song in the x advert" threads.

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Ha.

So "selling out" isn't a derogitory term then, it just means that they make music which is also suitable for advertising or major label success.

i'm using it in the derogatory sense. if a band allows one of their songs to be used for advertising purposes not only are they only doing it for money, which is hardly why you'd form a band in the first place but they're also in danger of spoiling the song's integrity. i can't listen to songs like Venus in Furs or Should I Stay or Should I Go in the same way i used to, for this reason.

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I'm in a band because I want to make music for a living. If I ever get to the point where I'm a signed artist, there will be an honest transaction involved, i.e, we play the songs, you pay us to listen to them.

There's a big difference between making that kind of honest living, and being paid to endorse something like GAP (Madonna, I'm looking at you). Doing a GAP advert isn't an artistic choice, it's a financial one. You are selling out.

I'd like to think that if GAP approached me to do an advert (yeah, right!) I'd tell them to fuck off. Realistically, what would probably happen is that the rest of the band would over-rule me, I'd take the money, then feel guilty. :huh:

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if a band allows one of their songs to be used for advertising purposes not only are they only doing it for money, which is hardly why you'd form a band in the first place

There's nothing really wrong with getting paid extra for your work though, is there?

Is there any difference between putting a song on an advert and having the song played on a commercial radio station?

but they're also in danger of spoiling the song's integrity. i can't listen to songs like Venus in Furs or Should I Stay or Should I Go in the same way i used to, for this reason.

This is the bit I don't really understand, and I'm not just being argumentative here. I don't see how the fact that a song's been used in an advert can ruin your enjoyment of that song.

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I'm in a band because I want to make music for a living. If I ever get to the point where I'm a signed artist, there will be an honest transaction involved, i.e, we play the songs, you pay us to listen to them.

There's a big difference between making that kind of honest living, and being paid to endorse something like GAP (Madonna, I'm looking at you). Doing a GAP advert isn't an artistic choice, it's a financial one. You are selling out.

I'd like to think that if GAP approached me to do an advert (yeah, right!) I'd tell them to fuck off. Realistically, what would probably happen is that the rest of the band would over-rule me, I'd take the money, then feel guilty. :huh:

good on you. i really mean that.

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There's a big difference between making that kind of honest living, and being paid to endorse something like GAP (Madonna, I'm looking at you). Doing a GAP advert isn't an artistic choice, it's a financial one. You are selling out.

What about if you were a big fan of GAP products? Ok, maybe that's not very realistic, but what if it was another company? Gibson guitars, VANS shoes, SEGA games? Would you allow them to use your music to advertise their products, while getting paid a huge sum of money in the process?

As you said, you're making music for a living, which means you're making music to make money.

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There's nothing really wrong with getting paid extra for your work though, is there?

yes.

Is there any difference between putting a song on an advert and having the song played on a commercial radio station?
yes.
This is the bit I don't really understand, and I'm not just being argumentative here.  I don't see how the fact that a song's been used in an advert can ruin your enjoyment of that song.
i am reminded of the product.

e.g. Back To The Old House by The Smiths is one of my favourite songs of all time. if they used it to advertise mortgages or something (perish the thought) it would totally destroy what the song means to me. the years and emotion i have invested in that song would be ruined for the sake of a nice fat pay cheque. that's selling out.

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yes.

yes.

You're not helping very much.

E.g. A song gets played on commercial radio. The band gets money from this. People listening to that radio station hear a bunch of adverts after every two or three songs. The bands are getting paid for encouraging people to listen to these adverts.

I don't see how there's a huge difference between that and having a song on an advert for a specific product.

i am reminded of the product.

e.g. Back To The Old House by The Smiths is one of my favourite songs of all time. if they used it to advertise mortgages or something (perish the thought) it would totally destroy what the song means to me. the years and emotion i have invested in that song would be ruined for the sake of a nice fat pay cheque. that's selling out.

But surely you can distinguish between the song and the product, especially if it's a song you've loved for so long.

I just don't understand how hearing a song a few more times along with some marketing blurb for a product can reduce your enjoyment of that song. I think we could go around in circles for ages here. Perhaps we just appreciate music in different ways.

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You're not helping very much.

i answered your questions. you're not helping much either :huh:

E.g. A song gets played on commercial radio.  The band gets money from this.  People listening to that radio station hear a bunch of adverts after every two or three songs.  The bands are getting paid for encouraging people to listen to these adverts.
the band gets royalty payments from the station for playing their song. they get nothing from the advertisers. the adverts on commercial radio are more likely to remind you of the product, or the station rather than one particular song or artist. unless that station plays the same artist all day long.
I don't see how there's a huge difference between that and having a song on an advert for a specific product.
well i've outlined the reasons in my previous answer but there is a MASSIVE difference if every time you see that particular product you're reminded of the song and vice versa.
But surely you can distinguish between the song and the product, especially if it's a song you've loved for so long.
surely the point of the advert is that the song reminds you of the product. so yes, it is hard to disassociate it.
I just don't understand how hearing a song a few more times along with some marketing blurb for a product can reduce your enjoyment of that song.  I think we could go around in circles for ages here.  Perhaps we just appreciate music in different ways.
perhaps we do. Edited by Andy_Tanner
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What about if you were a big fan of GAP products? Ok, maybe that's not very realistic, but what if it was another company? Gibson guitars, VANS shoes, SEGA games? Would you allow them to use your music to advertise their products, while getting paid a huge sum of money in the process?

As you said, you're making music for a living, which means you're making music to make money.

Again, I'd like to think not, but I probably would.

It dilutes the integrity of the music you're creating, because you're enabling someone else to sell their product through your songs, as opposed to just selling your songs.

A crucial distinction, for me anyway.

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