Selling Out

[Hardwired]

the band gets royalty payments from the station for playing their song. they get nothing from the advertisers.

Commercial radio stations get all of their money from advertisers. They use the bands to encourage people to listen. The money they pay to the bands comes directly from the advertisers.

the adverts on commercial radio are more likely to remind you of the product, or the station rather than one particular song or artist. unless that station plays the same artist all day long.

That's true, yes.

So what about signing to major labels? Is that considered as selling out as well?

[Hardwired]

It dilutes the integrity of the music you're creating, because you're enabling someone else to sell their product through your songs, as opposed to just selling your songs.

That's the bit I can't understand. As far as I'm concerened the song remains the same and, no matter how many times I see it used in an advert, it's still the same great song when I listen to it on the album.

[Andy_Tanner]

Commercial radio stations get all of their money from advertisers. They use the bands to encourage people to listen. The money they pay to the bands comes directly from the advertisers.

the bands they play aren't endorsing any of the products advertised though are they? there this no association between the adverts and the music. they play songs they think their listeners want to hear, not what the advertisers want. this is a very tenuous link (at best) you're making by comparing commercial radio to artists being paid for using their music during an advert, thereby endorsing the product and linking it to the artist/song.

So what about signing to major labels?  Is that considered as selling out as well?

depends on the terms of the contract but, no, it's not in itself an indication of selling out.

[Hardwired]

depends on the terms of the contract but, no, it's not in itself an indication of selling out.

So it's really just adverts then?

[Uncle Mike]

As far as I'm concerened the song remains the same and, no matter how many times I see it used in an advert, it's still the same great song when I listen to it on the album.

That's what I reckon, Hardwired.

As far as I can see, it's the same song, and written for the same reasons. Unless someone wrote it with the express intention of selling me cornflakes, I don't see why it should matter.

Edited April 6, 2004 by Uncle Mike

[Hardwired]

this is a very tenuous link (at best) you're making by comparing commercial radio to artists being paid for using their music during an advert, thereby endorsing the product and linking it to the artist/song.

I'm just trying to understand what constitutes selling out.

[Hardwired]

As far as I can see, it's the same song, and written for the same reasons. Unless someone wrote it with the express intention of selling me cornflakes, I don't see why it should matter.

Yay.

[Andy_Tanner]

So it's really just adverts then?

selling out? not necessarily. with regards to signing a record contract (major or indie) then like i said, it depends on the terms of the contract in respect to how much artistic control you retain over your work. if the work is seriously compromised then you're selling out.

[Davros sock drawer]

That's the bit I can't understand. As far as I'm concerened the song remains the same and, no matter how many times I see it used in an advert, it's still the same great song when I listen to it on the album.

Not to me. My favourite songs remind me of things. Moods, colours, times in my life, someone's face, etc. It's more than just a song, it has context.

If that context shifts to being "That song from that advert", then it's pretty much ruined.

It also makes me respect the band less. It should be beneath them as artists. Writing a song specifically to sell cornflakes would actually have more integrity.

[Andy_Tanner]

I'm just trying to understand what constitutes selling out.

hopefully it's clearer now?

[Hardwired]

hopefully it's clearer now?

I understand what you mean by it now, but I still don't think anybody really has the right to say something like that about a band, just because the band wants to make a bit of extra cash. It seems particularly harsh, especially if you don't know all of the circumstances which lead up to them "selling out".

I can understand how it would be negative if they lost artistic control to a large record company and were forced to adapt their music to suit the current market tastes.

However, I don't see it as being negative if they just sell an existing song to be used on an advert. That, in the long run, is going to make the band more money and hopefully allow them to go on to make more records without having to resort to signing a restrictive contract with The Man.

[Andy_Tanner]

I understand what you mean by it now, but I still don't think anybody really has the right to say something like that about a band, just because the band wants to make a bit of extra cash. 

people should be able to say what they think, surely?

It seems particularly harsh, especially if you don't know all of the circumstances which lead up to them "selling out".

you mean because they maybe hard up? ok i would understand that they did it because they needed the money but they're still selling themselves and their fans out. unfortunately greed would appear to be reason though, generally.

However, I don't see it as being negative if they just sell an existing song to be used on an advert.  That, in the long run, is going to make the band more money and hopefully allow them to go on to make more records without having to resort to signing a restrictive contract with The Man.

interesting point. for example would Aqualung have been able to go on and record a second album had they not received the exposure Strange and Beautiful afforded them having allowed it to be used in a car advert? that song is still tainted to me though.

what you have to consider, ultimately, is whether endorsing a product with one of your songs will add worth to it. will the financial gain outweigh the possible detriment to the song or you as an artist?

Edited April 6, 2004 by Andy_Tanner

[Pete]

I like when bands do the opposite of selling out, ie after making one of the most critically acclaimed album of the 90s make a totally different sounding one with no singles. (guess the band)

though most bands don't sell out, i suppose to actually sell out you have to start out wanting to make art, not money. trouble is most bands start out putting money first, not making music.

[Andy_Tanner]

I like when bands do the opposite of selling out, ie after making one of the most critically acclaimed album of the 90s make a totally different sounding one with no singles. (guess the band)

Take That?

though most bands don't sell out, i suppose to actually sell out you have to start out wanting to make art, not money. trouble is most bands start out putting money first, not making music.

i would have thought most bands started because of their love of music. they probably want recognition too but i don't think making money would be their sole purpose. surely you'd go into stockbroking or something if it was just about money?

[Pete]

i would have thought most bands started because of their love of music. they probably want recognition too but i don't think making money would be their sole purpose. surely you'd go into stockbroking or something if it was just about money?

you're not telling me that blue are doing it for the good of music?

no its about the money, the girls and the fame.

if your talking about "real" bands then I suppose thats very different, but I can't think of any "real" bands that have sold out massively, they normally don't get a chance. they are either not famous enough or have too sordid lives to promote anything other than drug taking.

[Andy_Tanner]

you're not telling me that blue are doing it for the good of music?

no its about the money, the girls and the fame.

to be honest i'm not sure who they are i take it they're some kind of manufactured band? in which case i agree but then these guys never had any integrity to lose.

p.s. there aint nothing wrong with money, girls and fame but it should be about the music first and foremost

[Pete]

to be honest i'm not sure who they are

thats brilliant, that officially gets you on the list of forum people who are cool.

i wish i didn't know who blue were

they are basically 4 blokes singing R&B type stuff and are sub-human scum. sub-human scum.

[Wickedkitten]

Once a band has one of their songs used on an advert, I consider them to have sold out. The bigger and more evil the corporation, the worse the level of sell out.

See Bill Hick's "Suck Satan's Cock" stand up routine...

are you saying Supergrass has sold out?

[Andy_Tanner]

thats brilliant, that officially gets you on the list of forum people who are cool.

i wish i didn't know who blue were

they are basically 4 blokes singing R&B type stuff and are sub-human scum. sub-human scum.

i'll have to check them out! seriously though man, i was watching Top of The Pops for the first time in years the other week and i just didn't have a clue who most of them were. i felt completely out of touch and i reminded myself of my dad. frightening really, there was a time when i'd follow the Top 40 religiously. i'm well off the beaten track these days i guess.

Edited April 6, 2004 by Andy_Tanner

[Davros sock drawer]

are you saying Supergrass has sold out?

Probably. What song did they have on an advert?

[Andy_Tanner]

well they did release an album called In It For The Money

[Davros sock drawer]

well they did release an album called In It For The Money

Oh yes, silly me!

[Graham S]

Recent all-time favourite songs to be somewhat ruined by now associating them with adverts:

California Soul (some fried chicken or other, I think)

Black Steel (some bloody woman feeling free and saying bollocks to it all in a Ford car.)

I am not happy.

[AfromB]

Surely the best example would be Shed Seven, not only did they let Speakeasy be used, they actually changed the lyrics.

[Buttox]

Was odd that The Fall let that track be used on some car advert (obviously great advert, as I've no idea what the make was).

Selling out has always been a pretty nebulous thing - used to be that signing to a major was considered enough.

[Gique]

i was asked by MTV for some of my music.

told em no.

companies with money are buying the cool factor off bands.. its like getting payment from a very rich but lonely kid to be your friend at school.

in the long run they only dress their product with their money.. it's some trendy cokehead fuck in marketing who's trying to "synergize" some band with their product.. fuck that!

if you can deal with it, fine.. if not dont cry when people see you as someone who compromised their integrity for a quick buck.

I make music for the love of it... if you make music and want to make big money, cut out the risk and start managing / performing / writing for a boyband and bypass the entire feeling, soul and integrity thing altogether.

[DC Lemon]

Being a musician is just a job like any other. I enjoy my job, but I'll be first in the picket line if it means more money

[scruffycat]

Moby is a good example of selling out, auctioning off every track from your new album to the advertisers before it's even been released just looks so bad. Especially with the image he had cultivated and his personal lifestyle choices it appeared very hypocritical.

[Wintermute]

Moby is a good example of selling out, auctioning off every track from your new album to the advertisers before it's even been released just looks so bad. Especially with the image he had cultivated and his personal lifestyle choices it appeared very hypocritical.

He said he did it to keep the company, and his friends, afloat.

I say he's a lying, sell-out bastard.

You can add Metallica and Pitchshifter to the list too. Two bands who changed irrecognisably and sold their ideals out for money. Twats.

Now, Godflesh. There's a band who never let me down, and a band no-one has heard of, I'm sure. 10 years of solid releases, and they quit when it had naturally come to an end. Eternal respect...

[kerraig UK]

I went to see M.O.P. at subterranea in '95 and they went on this big tirade about how white people didn't belong in Hip Hip. they also had the line in downtown swinga "niggahs wanna stop that white shit they be promoting".

4 years later and they toured with eminem.

I consider that selling out.