Region-Free

[Phelan]

Ok now I'm aiming this attack at both Sony and Nintendo.

How is it possible for them to claim that they enforce regional coding onto their consoles when at the same time do the complete opposite by offering their handheld machines to be region-free.

Sureley, this hyprocritcal approach should allow no court in the land to step in and back Sony or Nintendo when they try to stop people selling mod chips or attempting to play games from another region when they themselves have machines which are region-free.

Now I realise that the hand-held consoles but what justification do these huge companies have for allowing this to happen - and why are they allowed to make one console region-free and another region-blocked

[jeff mills gran]

Ok now I'm aiming this attack at both Sony and Nintendo.

How is it possible for them to claim that they enforce regional coding onto their consoles when at the same time do the complete opposite by offering their handheld machines to be region-free.

Sureley, this hyprocritcal approach should allow no court in the land to step in and back Sony or Nintendo when they try to stop people selling mod chips or attempting to play games from another region when they themselves have machines which are region-free.

Now I realise that the hand-held consoles but what justification do these huge companies have for allowing this to happen - and why are they allowed to make one console region-free and another region-blocked

well, you don't carry around a ps2 in hand luggage to you? think about it.

[Phelan]

Yeah but I don't carry my GBA SP around in my hand luggage most of the time either.

So it's portable and what's the big deal.

By their reasoning it's FINE for me to fly to Japan say on a holiday and buy a game for my GBA SP/PSP but not fine for me to fly to Japan and buy a game for my Cube/PS2?

What's the difference?

Just because the console fits in my bag that makes it ok for them to say that one console is region-free while another is not THEN come down hard on people importing or exporting or modding???

[DJ Sack]

GBA games have little to no marketing, cube and ps2 games do, and this needs to be coordinated in each region, thats why region protection is there to artificially delay the games to do stuff and sort out distribution etc.

[Laine]

I guess it's to do with BBFC ratings and stuff.

My local importer got into lots of trouble for selling things that were BBFC rated on the PAL version without the rating on them becasue they were imports.

Also, things are cut from games from country to country aren't they?

That's one reason.

[Simon S]

There are many minor reasons you could argue for strict regional control, but I have an argument that trumps all reasons.

"Nintendo found guilty of 7 year european price fixing cartel. Record fines."

And if they got the chance, I've no doubt Sony would try the same thing (minus the fine I expect)

Companies are just too greedy to be trusted to behave in a moral way.

Edited April 7, 2004 by Simon S

[jeff mills gran]

Yeah but I don't carry my GBA SP around in my hand luggage most of the time either.

So it's portable and what's the big deal.

By their reasoning it's FINE for me to fly to Japan say on a holiday and buy a game for my GBA SP/PSP but not fine for me to fly to Japan and buy a game for my Cube/PS2?

What's the difference?

Just because the console fits in my bag that makes it ok for them to say that one console is region-free while another is not THEN come down hard on people importing or exporting or modding???

well..a portable device is, well.. portable.. why should it function differently when it leaves one region to another? consoles like the ps2 are static its make more sense to attempt to enforce a regional lockout.

oh and you know the argument against mod chips.. simple fact of life, as a by-product they allow people to use copied games. end off.

edit: spelling. its early.

Edited April 7, 2004 by jeff mills gran

[Phelan]

Well you can blame marketing or the BBFC but I think you will find the only answer is that it suits them to make up the rules which we all have to play by.

In that case JMG my console may not be portable but it's the same machine that's sold in a whole different bunch of countries. The games are the same so why shouldn't I be allowed to buy a game from any country ... ah because it stays in my room and isn't portable???

Which bit of hypocrisy don't you understand there?

Is it just me who sees that this is very wrong? Obviously I have seen this for years but Sony coming out and saying their PSP will be region-free really got me going when I think of what they will do along with Nintendo to prevent people importing etc.

And DJ Sack - we don't ask for the marketing. It's their choice so that isn't an answer.

And again Laine I say to you how can it be BBFC when the games for the GBA and PSP will be region-free? So you can buy an 18 game from US or Japan as long is it's for your HANDHELD but not your home console?

[jeff mills gran]

Well you can blame marketing or the BBFC but I think you will find the only answer is that it suits them to make up the rules which we all have to play by.

In that case JMG my console may not be portable but it's the same machine that's sold in a whole different bunch of countries. The games are the same so why shouldn't I be allowed to buy a game from any country ... ah because it stays in my room and isn't portable???

Which bit of hypocrisy don't you understand there?

Is it just me who sees that this is very wrong? Obviously I have seen this for years but Sony coming out and saying their PSP will be region-free really got me going when I think of what they will do along with Nintendo to prevent people importing etc.

And DJ Sack - we don't ask for the marketing. It's their choice so that isn't an answer.

And again Laine I say to you how can it be BBFC when the games for the GBA and PSP will be region-free? So you can buy an 18 game from US or Japan as long is it's for your HANDHELD but not your home console?

do all games sold in this country have to have BBFC ratings?

[Phelan]

As far as I know yes. However I also know that it's a grey area when it comes to importing.

The game the country is bought in should have the country's rating. Big deal. If I buy a game in US or Japan then it will have their rating...no bigge to me.

And that's my point.

You can buy it in another country and it will work on your handheld but not your home console.

[jeff mills gran]

Sureley, this hyprocritcal approach should allow no court in the land to step in and back Sony or Nintendo when they try to stop people selling mod chips or attempting to play games from another region when they themselves have machines which are region-free.

"why mod chips are bad"

[Laine]

Because with the GBA, the games don't require any age restrictions.

I'm not making up that imoprters story you know.

I mean we could all important from the U.S then NoE would go bust.

Hurray!

[PeteJ]

It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo make the DS region specific, especially after their really heavy handed approach to UK retail importers.

[Cyhwuhx]

.::: Didn't this have something to do with the PAL, NTSC and NTSC/J formats? With handhelds being confined systems and all that don't require an external monitor.

[Laine]

.::: Didn't this have something to do with the PAL, NTSC and NTSC/J formats? With handhelds being confined systems and all that don't require an external monitor.

Of course!

Never thought of that.

Edited April 7, 2004 by Laine

[squirtle]

.::: Didn't this have something to do with the PAL, NTSC and NTSC/J formats? With handhelds being confined systems and all that don't require an external monitor.

Yep, that's the only reason I can think of.

However, Phelan, I think that in not targetting MS you're missing an obvious one. At least Sony and Nintendo never said that their home console would be region free. MS did with the Xbox. I clearly remember being quite excited at the thought that I could import without the need for any kind of modding or disc swapping. And what happened? Arse and bollox that's what!

[Ste Pickford]

.::: Didn't this have something to do with the PAL, NTSC and NTSC/J formats? With handhelds being confined systems and all that don't require an external monitor.

To be honest I think the region encoding started in the old days simply because of TV system differences in different territories, rather than as a masterplan to rip off europeans.

But the industry has grown up, and grown worldwide *with* region encoding, and therefore lots of business practices (publishing and licensing to different companies in different territories) and deals are in place which rely on this. It would be very difficult for any manufacturer to remove region encoding now without upsetting lots, if not all, of their publishing partners.

I think the justifications given for it are all spurious - the industry as a whole would benefit if it was removed (I believe), but at the same time lots of individual companies would suffer tremendously in the short term if it went.

*edit - I guess what I've just written only applies completely to Nintendo. MS could have made the xbox region free if they'd wanted to...

Edited April 7, 2004 by Ste Pickford

[Laine]

I suppose if you're that bothered about getting games quicker and niche titles Europe won't see it's not hard to chip.

I can't see it ever changing.

[DJ Sack]

Why is marketing not valid phelan? The reason the world is split into seperate markets so they can co-ordinate marketing, packaging, publishing, distribution etc effectivly. If you have to manage the whole world its a lot of hard work compared to 6 different regions.

Also what may wonr/may not work in one region may not/will work in another so its also a way of learning too

DVD's have the same sort of region protection for the same reason, so the companies can release the product at a set time and date to make their marketing effective, because if everyone imported from america, it'd mess up all their sales for the other regions as everyone imported it months ago.

[Ste Pickford]

Why is marketing not valid phelan? The reason the world is split into seperate markets so they can co-ordinate marketing, packaging, publishing, distribution etc effectivly. If you have to manage the whole world its a lot of hard work compared to 6 different regions.

Well that's not really the way it works. Splitting up territories means the opposite - that they don't have to bother coordinating marketing, release dates etc. Which is what winds up us internationally-aware modern consumers so much.

Generally each different territory is managed by different people anyway, even in international corportations. The only additional work is these people speaking to each other - they all have to market & distribute to their respective territories either way.

[Alex W.]

It's all a bunch of nonsenical hooey, and frankly I think that handhelds are left region-free for reasons that completely escape me.

Region settings on DVDs and games rarely lead to "co-ordinated marketing"- all it usually leads to is NoE doing adverts infinately crappier than NoA or NCL and Europe not getting extras because noone can be arsed subtitling or dubbing them.

[Laine]

The fact that NoE (or whoever) would go bust is a pretty big reason I guess.

If you want US versions that badly, import, and pay the £100 max it costs to chip. Or buy a NTSC machine in the first place.

Edited April 7, 2004 by Laine

[Liquid Myth]

What annoys me to a certain degree is the length of time it usually takes for a GBA game to come out over here after the US release - and that's when the US version includes all the European languages, and will be treated to a massive none-marketing spree.

What's going on?

[Laine]

What annoys me to a certain degree is the length of time it usually takes for a GBA game to come out over here after the US release - and that's when the US version includes all the European languages, and will be treated to a massive none-marketing spree.

What's going on?

We aren't as important as the other regions I guess.

Otherwise they'd make much more of an effort.

[Phelan]

CD's - Region free

DVD's - Region specific

Handheld consoles - Region free

Home consoles - Region specific

They can't blame the PAL/NTSC thing anymore as modern tv's will play both. They can't blame marketing because if people buy their machines and want to buy their games from another country they should be allowed to.

[Halo]

The BBFC only rates games that the games companies choose to submit. They usual do this as they will get 18+ ratings... which means they get more sales, ironically. It's completely optional and costs the games publishers money.

Why are portables region free? One reason is because it's cheaper to make one unit with different external power supplies, based over a single TV system than it is over an internal power supplies with differing voltages and TV systems. Another reason is so that people can buy games on holiday when they're bored. Not complex stuff IMO.

The GBA also contains very little in the way of bios, or piracy protection. Basically, it's cheaper and less hassle for Nintendo to leave it region free.

Why are consoles region free? Originally because it was cheaper to make different designed consoles/carts for each region to accomidate for their TV systems and power supplies. Now it's to control distribution, price fix and to ensure the games reach markets they are intended for. The same reasons DVDs are region encoded.

[Phelan]

Now it's to control distribution, price fix and to ensure the games reach markets they are intended for. The same reasons DVDs are region encoded.

Yeah that was my original point basically.

There is no need any more for it to be region-specific, as shown by their handhelds - but they keep it going for their own greedy reasons.

[Sprite Machine]

CD's - Region free

DVD's - Region specific

Handheld consoles - Region free

Home consoles - Region specific

They can't blame the PAL/NTSC thing anymore as modern tv's will play both.

NTSC and PAL televisions are not the same. They may usually be compatible with each type of output (especially these days), but there are most certainly differences between them that need to be catered for.

See all the examples you listed there? What's the recurring factor with all the region-coded media? Yes, they use a TV screen.

There's your answer then. It sucks, but there it is.

[Ed-E]

Yep, that's the only reason I can think of.

However, Phelan, I think that in not targetting MS you're missing an obvious one. At least Sony and Nintendo never said that their home console would be region free. MS did with the Xbox. I clearly remember being quite excited at the thought that I could import without the need for any kind of modding or disc swapping. And what happened? Arse and bollox that's what!

Actually, Microsoft never said the games would be region-free - they said that the facility for the publishers to MAKE them region-free was there. The simple fact of the matter is that most, if not all, publishers are not willing to do that, which is why there's only a few region-free titles (the initial batch of Live games and SB:LoC).

The BBFC only rates games that the games companies choose to submit. They usual do this as they will get 18+ ratings... which means they get more sales, ironically. It's completely optional and costs the games publishers money.

Not true - there's a list of things, and if a game contains any of them it MUST be submitted to the BBFC. And if it's not age-rated by the BBFC then it is by ELSPA (or PEGI as they seem to use these days) - yes, even GBA games.

Well that's not really the way it works. Splitting up territories means the opposite - that they don't have to bother coordinating marketing, release dates etc. Which is what winds up us internationally-aware modern consumers so much.

And especially internationally-aware internet-savvy modern consumers. They must be aware that a lot of people download games rather than wait for the domestic versions. See most people here with Ninja Gaiden.

[Burai]

I don't think the whole TV difference thing really counts any more. I know the console itself outputs with NTSC or PAL colour encoding, but the games themselves work fine either way because the colour encoding is not different depending on disc (Indeed, running NTSC Halo in PAL60 and PAL60 PGR in NTSC as well as the multi-region Live games would attest that).

Indeed, as long as consoles have 60Hz support I see no reason why you couldn't use the same game across regions (those who can't watch 60Hz get letterboxes like they do now).

Personally, I'd be all for multi-region. For one thing, it'd mean there would be no grey area for modchips to cling to - If you buy a modchip when the machine is multi-region it HAS to be for piracy.