Zelda: The Wind Waker

[Sprite Machine]

I think one great thing about TWW, is that it will probably age very well.

I say this because the cell shading is so vibrant and crisp, compare that to games that use traditional textures, that will not only look drab, but will almost seemingly 'lose detail' in a matter of years.

The Wind Waker has very low-res textures on all backgrounds. I was a bit disappointed by that, to be honest.

The combat was shite. Required little or no skill.

The combat is a slightly more advanced form of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask's combat system. The 'parry' move (amongst other things) seemed to make it more difficult, not less.

I agree about the dungeons though; there weren't too many instances where I was left scratching my head. One or two, sure, but not many.

Not a problem as LTTP has only one sword attack.

LttP's combat system is awful!

TWW has a limited simple world.

In what respect?

It's certainly very 'flat', yes. A lot of areas are accessed by acquiring a new 'key' rather than a new manoeuvre.. well, sort of. The structural form of the environment is rather simple, I agree. I found that it made it easier to systematically explore every area of the game world without feeling overwhelmed. Easier then? Yes. Except I got stuck (or lost) many times and had to resort to a guide. Heaven knows how a "kid" would cope with that.

The sail is so simple, its mind numbing.

The sail? You mean the sailing? It's travelling using the wind. It's no more or less confusing that running around Hyrule or riding on Epona. Perhaps it's actually moreso. I don't get what you mean.

Tingle needs murderising.

Agreed.

TWW takes 15 hours MAX to complete.

Then my copy must be faulty as it took longer. What happens to your version once it passes over 15 hours? Does it melt?

[alan cummings]

I've got the wind waker sat next to my N64 which hasn't been turned on since christmas. I got to the bit where i'd just landed on my first island, which seems to be a pirate stronghold or something. I hadn't really given the game a chance to take hold, but i lost all the interest i did have when i saw the first thing i had to do was sneak past some searchlights. i turned it off and haven't played it since, although i have been meaning to, i've just been too busy.

is it worth persevering with? i played all the other Zelda games apart from Adventures of Link, and loved each one more than the one before it. i was really looking forward to wind waker.

its just that once i'd started, i didn't feel too excited about another overworld/dungeon/bit more of the overworld/dungeon/ routine. is that what this game is like all the way through?

The thing which most impressed me about OOT was the way the main world fitted together so beautifully. It was great to run down from the top of goron mountain, through the village, jump on Epona and then race across hyrule field to the lake. and there was so much to do and explore in the world, minigames, trading, collecting ghosts, racing, exploring the lost woods, etc.

I loved having an open world to explore, but whenever i entered a dungon i always got a bit pissed off at the though of several hours of fairly samey monster bashing/block sliding/chest finding.

I'd be more excited about playing TWW and future zeldas if they have tried to expand more on the open world side of things, more non-linear questing and less being forced into completing the adventure in a series of "levels" which is what the dungeons have started to feel like.

[Davros sock drawer]

I've got the wind waker sat next to my N64 which hasn't been turned on since christmas.

You might want to try it on a Gamecube.

Of course it's worth playing. Ignore Kamarantz and Napole0n, they are ranting like spoilt babies.

[Festoon]

The graphics look dull and flat. I don't mind toonshading, but I DO mind ugly toonshading. From the characters to the colour schemes, I found it dull and lifeless like a bad children's drawing. Technically getting everything out of the cube? No. While there were more animation frames, guards would glitch through barrels, people would glitch through walls and the camera indoors was pure evil. No talkies, but still those boring old textboxes with every important object highlighted. And what would the characters do while talking to them? Stare blankly in the camera, wiggling back and forth like fucking morons. They would do so for an hour if you didn't press [A]. This would be acceptable in the early days, but these days I expect the level of animation to be equal to a real life movie, or in the case of toony stuff, like a disney movie.

Er, what game does achieve this exactly?

You're being way too harsh and critical of it to a ludicrous and comical degree.

[Gavin]

Goldeneye had a quick item select?

..er yeah, I think, all you had to do was hold A and push the direction of the weapon/item you wanted as they all popped up in a circle.

As far as I can remember anyway.

Yeah jamiemelon of course it's worth playing.

It's more enjoyable than 90% of games out there, you just may feel it is more of a sunny holiday than an epic adventure.

[Sprite Machine]

..er yeah, I think, all you had to do was hold A and push the direction of the weapon/item you wanted as they all popped up in a circle.

Only in Perfect Dark.

[Systemshock]

I fucking hated it. Every Zelda game on every new Nintendo platform added something to the mix. LttP features huge worlds, light/dark world, weather, light/dark effects. Beautiful.

Ocarina of Time went 3D and in a way never seen before. The first game that had a world that felt alive, which was beautiful, lush and exciting.

The Wind Waker however, did none of this. It dumbed the series down (it made it easier), it removed all sense of dread and darkness, and instead of expanding it just shrunk the experience down. And not in a good way.

The graphics look dull and flat. I don't mind toonshading, but I DO mind ugly toonshading. From the characters to the colour schemes, I found it dull and lifeless like a bad children's drawing. Technically getting everything out of the cube? No. While there were more animation frames, guards would glitch through barrels, people would glitch through walls and the camera indoors was pure evil. No talkies, but still those boring old textboxes with every important object highlighted. And what would the characters do while talking to them? Stare blankly in the camera, wiggling back and forth like fucking morons. They would do so for an hour if you didn't press [A]. This would be acceptable in the early days, but these days I expect the level of animation to be equal to a real life movie, or in the case of toony stuff, like a disney movie.

The Wind Waker does not look like a Disney movie. It looks like one of those 30 minutes ads for Japanese crappy toys which are made with a minimum budget. I fucking hate it. I wish it would die. I wish I never seen it, so my memories of other Zelda games like Link to the Past, the Oracles, Link's Awakening and Ocarina of Time (10/10, oh yeah) wouldn't have been affected.

Sure its not because it wasn't a squad based on-line shooter with head shots and body parts?

[Gavin]

Only in Perfect Dark.

oops.

I considered PD to be GE's superior sequel-that explains my confusion.

[kensei]

Wind Waker was great. From start to finish. The graphics remain the silkiest, smoothest, mind boggingly greatest shit out there. The plot is just so much better than OoT' - Gannon stole the whole show for me. I even loved the sailing. It isn't the best Zelda game (that honour going to either MM or Lttp, can't decide), but you compare Zelda games to everything that isn't a Zelda game.

In comaparasion, OoT disappointed me bad.

[Ktw]

I thought it was excellent, but sadly the sailing got in the way of me finishing it.

[hughes]

I thought it was excellent, but sadly the sailing got in the way of me finishing it.

Is that even with the cyclone melody? I made sure I got it as soon as I got the bow, and benefited from it.

Also, on another note mentioned in the thread, the ghost ship shows up on the map at night-time.

[omus]

While TWW wasn't a bad game in terms of games in general, i did think it was a very poor game in terms of the Zelda Heritage. After reading the posts previously, i realize that where enjoyment comes from in Zelda is subjective, but i fall in the 'Dungeons R teh roXx0rz' catagory. In those terms the work done by Eiji Aonuma is what i deteste. In MM there was at least some sort of dark vibe going on, but that too disappeared from WW. (and that isn't a dig at the actual graphics because i love them more than you can imagine).

It was obvious that the game had been significantly stripped down from what it should have been, especially when you consider the very short spacing between the final sword upgrades. It was also far too easy, far, far too easy in fact. I'm pretty sure i never actually saw the death animation.

I also enjoy hunting for those little secrets. With WW however it was pretty obvious that each island held one secret, the bigger ones holding maybe a few more. It sort of took any sort of exploritory mysticism away from the game.

The shard were a joke, and i think that is generally accepted, but what i haven't seen mentioned is the actual story. Especially the ending. While the most part may be standard Zelda fare, the end is a travesty. And it basically shits on a large chunk of the Zelda Heritage, something which to my eyes is unforgivable. Not to mention the fact that the ending was so badly set-up, which emphasised the plot holes no end. It was especially clear after playing SOA:L so recently to the time i finished the US version.

To highlight this criticism i thought the Japanese version was far the superior game, as the shoddy story was undecipherable to myself.

So not a bad game, but definately not The Legend of Zelda's Greatest Moment.

[Ktw]

Is that even with the cyclone melody? I made sure I got it as soon as I got the bow, and benefited from it.

It helped but I still felt that out of the perhaps twenty hours that I spent with the game, ten were spent sailing semi-aimlessly. True, in part I have only myself to blame, but I still feel that that was a bit of a letdown compared to earlier Zelda games.

I think the big difference is that you could spend a lot of time just sailing towards something and once you finally reached that island, there'd be something on it preventing you from exploring it. Meaning you could spend a lot of time just getting to something that you couldn't explore.

[hughes]

It helped but I still felt that out of the perhaps twenty hours that I spent with the game, ten were spent sailing semi-aimlessly. True, in part I have only myself to blame, but I still feel that that was a bit of a letdown compared to earlier Zelda games.

I think the big difference is that you could spend a lot of time just sailing towards something and once you finally reached that island, there'd be something on it preventing you from exploring it. Meaning you could spend a lot of time just getting to something that you couldn't explore.

I guess it really is just a case of marmite gaming. Very early on I sailed on every one of the grids getting the fish to draw on my map, loved doing it, and getting the full thing was satisfying (although a piece of heart from the last one would've been nice)

[Prine]

i loved it it. Apart from the shit combat, it was a fantastic game. Best i've played on my cube.

[SomeNaiveChump]

didn't finish it - couldn't be bothered to play it after a while.

it's probably a good game, but as a follow-up to ALttP, OoT and MM? no.

[kamrantaz]

Its Zelda: The EA years.

[Jack]

Its Zelda: The EA years.

Yes, check out the lights on the bottom of the boat, as well as Link saying "Wikkid!" at any opportunity whilst listening to EA GameTrax.

[Festoon]

Yes, check out the lights on the bottom of the boat, as well as Link saying "Wikkid!" at any opportunity whilst listening to EA GameTrax.

Link: "I live my life 1/4 of a knot at a time!"

[Mayfair Rick]

Celda seems to be the best and worst game ever, and nothing in between if you're reading this thread. Oh, come on. I'm more than a little critical of it, but I don't see how any of you can go about wishing it had never been created, as it's still a pretty good game.

And I still don't get the "dumbing down" idea. It's not like the other games were intellectual masterpieces, is it?

[kamrantaz]

you clearly havent played the genius that is AW and LTTP.

[Mayfair Rick]

Cleverly designed, yes, but so was Celda. There's no reduction in intelligent material here, merely a change of direction. After all, how many light-dark/past-future dichotomies can you have in one series?

I'm not saying the game was better than LTTP, but it's certainly no less intelligent.

[kamrantaz]

Nope definantly dumbing down.

They clearly didnt want to think too much into the game. The dungeons are just so linear and the puzzles so obvious. They put no thought into them.

[___]

[sUBJECT MATTER] seems to be the best and worst game ever, and nothing in between if you're reading this thread.

Welcome to internet forums!

[Mayfair Rick]

And there was me wondering why I'd been avoiding the public internet.

Say, kamrantaz, have you got Miyamato on hand to tell you that he didn't put any thought into the dungeons? Or are you just making assumptions about how the game was created?

The idea that I'm getting is that it isn't the game that's the problem, it's you. Have you put any thought into the notion that maybe - just possibly - that by playing so many Zelda games, you've become so familiar with their obscure mechanics that you can see the puzzles coming a mile away?

[sandman]

In a bizarre coincidence, I went back to WW last night after a 4 month break. After loving MM I thought I would give it another try. Here are my thoughts

- It looks amazing. Perhaps the best looking game I have seen. It has such an amazing style.

- However, it does still seem a bit strange to look at a cel-shaded Zelda. It doesn't seem quite right.

- I don't know if its because I am using the Wavebird, but I find the analogue stick to be very difficult to use.

- The story is much stronger than OOT, but not as good as MM.

- I'm obviously a very slow gamer. I seem to have been playing forever and have olny just got the 3 pearl things.

- I'm worried about this tri-force shards bit and that it will be a real pain. Will a game guide help?

- I would have used voices. I know some consider this sacriledge, but reading text is best left to the older games IMO.

- It is the best game on the 'cube ( although if it were easier, M Prime would be my fave )

- I couldn't get the hang of the combat in ALTTP either - whats wrong with me?

[MW_Jimmy]

I probably enjoyed WW more than any other Zelda for two reasons:

1.Great strong characterisation. The first Zelda game thats actually funny. Sure many of them came from older zelda's (two brothers:one house, tingle) but they didn't have the expressions that they have in this game.

2.Nice short length- didn't drag on and on like OOT did. It was also probably the most logical zelda game, puzzle-wise.

Which is probably why some of you are whinging.

[kamrantaz]

You have a point there.

Another thing that pisses me off is that nintendo just seem to be treading water with the game. If you are not going to innovate at least make it more challenging. They just made it easier and simpler.

I played LTTP on the GBA last year. It was just as good and long, but maybe not as chalanging as i remember but still light years ahead.

[Venice Cull]

Zelda games, you've become so familiar with their obscure mechanics that you can see the puzzles coming a mile away?

There's some truth in that I think, but I have to say I was slightly dissapointed with some of the puzzles.

There's one room in it which you enter where a beam of light is shining down the length of the room, various mirrors are dotted around the place. I cracked my knuckles, rubbed my hands together and proceded to size up the room, figuring out what was need to be done.

I was surprised, nay - amazed, that all you had to do was push each mirror. That's it. I didn't have to pull the mirrors into different postions to get the beam re-routed. Simply walking up to each mirror (eight in total I think) and giving them one push solved the 'puzzle'. It may as well have been a panel of switches in the 'off postition'.

The Prince of Persia mirror conundrum is how you do those sort of things, or hell - even the ICO mirrors or the Spirit Temple in OOT.

I fairly sure that Windwakers 'back to basics' approach was intentional. We'll get the real brain teasers in WW2, I'm fairly sure of that.

[Burai]

- I'm worried about this tri-force shards bit and that it will be a real pain. Will a game guide help?

It can do. I'd suggest getting the Piggyback guide (about 6 quid from Amazon). Much better than the Prima one and feels like a companion rather than a game ruining cheat book.

As an aside, anyone know anywhere that's still got the Piggyback Kingdom Hearts book?