MS: "Fewer but better games from now on"

[Venice Cull]

Err... OK. I have no idea where you get your ideas as to what games I like, perhaps because of my avatar you think I'm some Nintendo fanboy who hates the Xbox or something. Not true. I have owned a PS2 since about 2 months after the US launch, and have enjoyed many "mature" and "realistic" games on that. I'm a huge fan of GTA for example, own all the GT games, love Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Suikoden etc....

My anti-FPS/Clancy is basically due to the fact that I have played those games and don't enjoy them. Yes - I have played Splinter Cell and geniunely didn't enjoy it that much. Halo I would probably get though. The Ghost Recon games I've played on PC and didn't like them. This is not some weird loyaty thing - its a genuine opinion.

I'm still sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out where you get the ideas you just posted I'm afraid.

Ah, I see. I thought you were one of 'them'.

For your information. It's the Wario avatar and sly 'digs' at LIVE, X-box games and Tom Clancy all in one post that drove me to post my (reasoned) thoughts.

[dr_lha]

For your information. It's the Wario avatar and sly 'digs' at LIVE, X-box games and Tom Clancy all in one post that drove me to post my (reasoned) thoughts.

My dig at Live being about the low take up. Well that's true isn't it? 5% of Xbox owners or something have Live? All I read from that is that people are not in general buying the Xbox because of Xbox Live.

Wario Avatar - well I guess I should change that to avoid this kind of crap.

Tom Clancy - well as I posted above I genuinely am not a fan of those games.

I played Halo for many hours and thought it was good for a console FPS, but was somewhat annoyed by the repetitive nature of the levels. As I said I'd buy it if I got an Xbox.

Oh and the console I have the most games for is the Dreamcast, and 2nd is probably the PS1. So I'm definitely no Nintendo fanboy

[D-Side]

I'm still sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out where you get the ideas you just posted I'm afraid.

It's probably got something to do with you reeling out the old cliched classic:

'There's only one good exclusive game on Xbox, and that's Halo.'

Personally, I think you should follow Clives' advice and not get an Xbox. Hell, you've obviously gone out of your way to avoid any good Xbox games up until now, why should ownership change that?

[D-Side]

My dig at Live being about the low take up. Well that's true isn't it? 5% of Xbox owners or something have Live?

If that's the case, then the current Xbox userbase stands at 130 million.

STRIIIIIIIIIIKER!

Edit: Actually, it's probably closer to eleventy-six.

[dr_lha]

Personally, I think you should follow Clives' advice and not get an Xbox.  Hell, you've obviously gone out of your way to avoid any good Xbox games up until now, why should ownership change that?

I already explained that I want one for chipping, and am geniunely interested in what good games there are for it. I am not as people seem to think, using this as a sly way to dig at the Xbox. I've been doing my research and have decided that if I do get one I'd probably put down my hard earned $$$ on copies of Halo, PDO, JSRF and maybe Shenmue II (as I never finished it on the DC). Yes I'm a bit of a Sega fan.

[dr_lha]

If that's the case, then the current Xbox userbase stands at 130 million.

STRIIIIIIIIIIKER!

Live has 6.5 million subscribers? Link please.

EDIT: Xbox.com says Live has half a million subscribers, which is 5% of 10 million. Haven't MS sold more than 10 million Xboxes? So my 5% figure is too high.

[ianwuk]

I had Xbox Live but cancelled it as I didn't have the time (or costs) to continue what was a great service, I loved Moto GP sessions though.

[Burai]

If that's the case, then the current Xbox userbase stands at 130 million.

STRIIIIIIIIIIKER!

Edit: Actually, it's probably closer to eleventy-six.

There are 6.5million Live users?

[dr_lha]

Edit: Actually, it's probably closer to eleventy-six.

D-Side - I think you need to work on your maths a bit more.

[D-Side]

Live has 6.5 million subscribers? Link please.

I added the extra zero for fun.

Anyway, loads of good games, go find them yourself, possible recommendations: Yager, PGR2, SC2, Live, don't buy Xbox Shenmue II, get DC version, don't say cliched guff, despite how well meaning, pisses everyone off.

End.

[dr_lha]

Anyway, loads of good games, go find them yourself, possible recommendations: Yager, PGR2, SC2, Live, don't buy Xbox Shenmue II, get DC version, don't say cliched guff, despite how well meaning, pisses everyone off.

End.

SC2 - hated SC1 with a passion. I certainly wouldn't buy SC2 without trying it first.

Yager - FPS? Doesn't seem to have been released in the USA.

PGR2 - I have MSR on the DC and to be honest don't like the game mechanic. Is it much different apart from the online play and graphics?

Shenmue 2 - OK I'll stick with the DC version, although the sound of my DC's disk drive crunching away is starting to get to me!

[Mr Do 71]

Look also to the future Xbox games like, Fabel, BC, Sudeki, Jade Empire, True Fantasy Live Online, Full Spectrum Warrior (tactical war sim), FlatOut, Mashed, Pro Evo Soccer, Kameo, Conker, Top Spin 2, Otogi 2, Silent Hill 4, Juiced, and Thief:DS.

[MK-1601]

A shame that 'bigger budget' does not equate to 'better game', then.

[Prine]

You sounding like you're reaching. KOTOR marmite? since when? Ninja Gaiden not an option because its difficult? I bet you bought VJ, XBL is crap because of the size of its population? What has XBL uptake got to do with you enjoying Xbox games online?

[Prine]

A shame that 'bigger budget' does not equate to 'better game', then.

Good thing its bigger budget and more time then

[dr_lha]

You sounding like you're reaching. KOTOR marmite? since when? Ninja Gaiden not an option because its difficult? I bet you bought VJ, XBL is crap because of its population? What has XBL uptake got to do with you enjoying Xbox games online?

I know a lot of people who didn't like KOTOR. There were a lot of negative comments about the game on this board. Bugs apparently were pretty bad. I've not played it though so I can't comment on how good it is, but I got the impression that its a game that not everyone loved.

Ninja Gaiden I quoted as a good game, I never said it wasn't an option, although as I said the buzz seemed to have died down on it. Certainly what I started hearing was it was very hard.

Yes I did buy VJ and got stuck on it. Loved it up to the point where I got stuck though, but it is fucking hard.

My Live comment was just going towards the whole "why should people buy an Xbox"? My point was Live was not driving Xbox sales, my evidence being that Live take up was low amongst Xbox owners. I never said Xbox Live was crap - where are you getting this stuff from?

[Sideshow]

I know a lot of people who didn't like KOTOR. There were a lot of negative comments about the game on this board. Bugs apparently were pretty bad. I've not played it though so I can't comment on how good it is, but I got the impression that its a game that not everyone loved.

Of course a quick forum search for the rllmuk awards threads would have told you otherwise...

1. Star Wars Kotor = 105 points

2. Project Gotham 2 = 60 points

3. Panzer dragoon orta = 21 points

4. Top Spin = 13 points

5. Rainbow Six 3 = 11 points

For the Sega stuff alone an Xbox is worthwhile.

[Prine]

Fair enough. Like Sideshow pointed, isnt Panazer Dragoon Orta, JSRF, Shenmue 2, OutRun2 (XBL) and Spikeoout Xtreme (XBL) Ninja Gaiden enough?

Then you have Conker Live and Uncut, Burnout 3 (XBL) Fable, True Fantasy Live Online, Halo 2, Top Spin 2, DOA: CC, Phantom Dust, KOTOR 2 and Jade Empire on the horizon.

[dr_lha]

Fair enough. Like Sideshow pointed, isnt Panazer Dragoon Orta, JSRF, Shenmue 2, OutRun2 (XBL) and Spikeoout Xtreme (XBL) Ninja Gaiden enough?

Then you have Conker Live and Uncut, Burnout 3 (XBL) Fable, True Fantasy Live Online, Halo 2, Top Spin 2, DOA: CC, Phantom Dust, KOTOR 2 and Jade Empire on the horizon.

Didn't I already say that I'd probably get PDO, Shenmue 2 and JSRF? What point are you making exactly?

As for the other games, I'll reserve judgement until they're actually released and reviewed thanks.

[mwaawm]

no. read it again.

Well im sorry but that does seem to be what your saying in that post.

The subtle nuance of the 'before it died' phrase in your original post is completley undermined by you listing paper mario as one of your 3 games. As this appeared very late in the N64 you are discounting loads of other great games that were released before that.

[Ktw]

I know a lot of people who didn't like KOTOR. There were a lot of negative comments about the game on this board. Bugs apparently were pretty bad. I've not played it though so I can't comment on how good it is, but I got the impression that its a game that not everyone loved.

I know a lot of people who didn't like TWW. There were a lot of negative comments about the game on this board. Sailing apparently was pretty bad. I've not played it though so I can't comment on how good it is, but I got the impression that its a game that not everyone loved.

Or how about...

I know a lot of people who didn't like Halo. There were a lot of negative comments about the game on this board. Environments apparently were pretty repetitive. I've not played it though so I can't comment on how good it is, but I got the impression that its a game that not everyone loved.

And so on...

For the record, I didn't experience a single bug during my 70 hours with KotOR.

And it is an excellent game. Doesn't mean every single person in the world will love it, though.

[Mogget]

Maybe Microsoft could apply this to the PC, dump their existing flight simulator, and develop a far better version based on the Flight Unlimited series.

[dr_lha]

And it is an excellent game. Doesn't mean every single person in the world will love it, though.

People are getting rather defensive. I'm not saying KOTOR is bad, simply that the impression I got from reading rllmuk posts about it is that its a game that isn't universally adored, certainly much less than Halo is. I agree that I get the same impression about TWW as well from rllmuk, although personally I love TWW.

[multi]

3 cheers for Jack....hip hip..

[Nick Laslett]

I like Sony's approach, which is to have loads of games available for your console.

They think quantity is better than quality. Let the shoppers decide what they want but give them maximum choice. Each week 4 to 5 titles are released on the PS2. This makes a big difference to the choices you have.

The quality versus quantity argument is interesting, but if you look at other entertainment fields they all emphasize quantity over quality. (films, music, books, TV) I see no reason why it should be different with videogames?

We all have such diverse tastes that they only why to cater for a mass market audience is a lot of variety. Whatever complaints you might have about the PS2 games catelogue, the lack of choice is not one you can have.

[Burai]

Of those 5 PS2 releases a week, rarely is one a Sony-published one.

Microsoft have published a lot of Xbox games, most of which have bombed terribly or been utter shite.

Take for example Kakuto Chojin and Bruce Lee. With Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur and the 2 Capcom 2D fighters, was there any need for Microsoft to fund those 2 games?

The point of this is that Microsoft won't be throwing money after games they don't need to. Don't expect to see tactical, stealth-based shooters from Microsoft any time soon - UbiSoft has that covered. Don't expect any sports games - Sega, Midway and EA have that covered.

Quantity does matter, but that's what third parties are for. First and second parties make games that sell systems and give third parties something to aspire to.

[nohsa]

I like Sony's approach, which is to have loads of games available for your console.

They think quantity is better than quality. Let the shoppers decide what they want but give them maximum choice. Each week 4 to 5 titles are released on the PS2. This makes a big difference to the choices you have.

The quality versus quantity argument is interesting, but if you look at other entertainment fields they all emphasize quantity over quality. (films, music, books, TV) I see no reason why it should be different with videogames?

We all have such diverse tastes that they only why to cater for a mass market audience is a lot of variety. Whatever complaints you might have about the PS2 games catelogue, the lack of choice is not one you can have.

And they have enough quality games on offer too.

More choice = better, imo.

That is how markets work.

[Burai]

And they have enough quality games on offer too.

More choice = better, imo.

That is how markets work.

Tell that to the publishers who have their games burried at Christmas by the ususal EA suspects.

[One Man and his Dog]

Your "anti-FPS/Clancy" stance is no different than someone saying "I quite fancy a gamecube, but kids games don't interest me".

To which the corrext answer is "well for the Gamecube there are also other non-kiddie games". I am in the same boat as dr_lha, I just don't get on with FPS games. I have Halo for my Xbox and frankly it interested me for a while but I got bored with it not long after leaving the planet and going into some alien ship. That is probably the furthest I have got with a FPS game ever (and my buying of FPS games goes back a long way, I have the like of Duke Nukem 3D and the original Quake up to more modern things like Unreal Tournament and Half-Life in my collection). Sometimes you just don't get on with a genre.

It is like the fact that I don't like fresh tomatoes. Eating more fresh tomatoes is only going to piss me off, it doesn't make me like fresh tomatoes. Of course there is the concept of "aquired taste", but frankly that is rare and it certainly hasn't worked with me, despite obviously making an attempt.

[D-Side]

Have a cooked tomato then.