MS: "Fewer but better games from now on"

[D-Side]

Yes, but that came on page eleven after countless pages of denying the existence of the genre of "first person shooters"

I wasn't denying the existence of the genre, more questioning its' usefulness in reference to certain games.

[One Man and his Dog]

Let's wheel out some well recognised classics.

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

Rayman 2

Ico

Metroid Prime

Now, effectively all of those can be pigeonholed as platformers.  IMO, I only really consider one of those games to be a true platformer.  Can you guess what it is yet?

It's true, I see no need for genres.  I suppose it's because I see more and more games defining themselves as superior experiences, rather than comparing well to past genre leaders.

As I said, games belonging to a genre doesn't actually mean they are the same.

I said that a couple of pages or so ago. That's why I class Spy Hunter and Gran Turismo all as racers even though they are obviously very different games.

I tried to illustrate this last night by comparing a Woody Allen film, let's say Mighty Aphrodite, with There's Something About Mary. Both are comedies but go about it in very different manners.

You never commented on it.

[Alex W.]

As I said, games belonging to a genre doesn't actually mean they are the same.

I said that a couple of pages or so ago. That's why I class Spy Hunter and Gran Turismo all as racers even though they are obviously very different games.

I tried to illustrate this last night by comparing a Woody Allen film, let's say Mighty Aphrodite, with There's Something About Mary. Both are comedies but go about it in very different manners.

You never commented on it.

I've had a recent moment of clarity: I think he didn't comment on the things he agreed with, for example that.

What he's getting at is that he doesn't view those games as platformers, hence genres are pretty crap as descriptors in his eyes. On the other hand, you use the platform genre as a fairly useful way of categorising and sub-categorising games mentally, so you do find it to be a good descriptor.

It's an opinion thang.

[One Man and his Dog]

I wasn't denying the existence of the genre, more questioning its' usefulness in reference to certain games.

"Well, maybe the term 'FPS' is just a load of non-descriptive bullshit. Have you ever thought about that?"

You, last night.

[D-Side]

Yes, but you seem to be lumping games in for the wrong reasons. Spy Hunter is a 'racer' because it features a motorised vehicle running along a track. Forget that it plays rather like a top down shooter, it's got cars, it's a racer.

Anyway, I didn't comment on the film comparison because I didn't think it was that useful. Besides which, TSAM isn't very funny.

[D-Side]

"Well, maybe the term 'FPS' is just a load of non-descriptive bullshit. Have you ever thought about that?"

You, last night.

And what does one statement have to do with the other exactly?

[One Man and his Dog]

I've had a recent moment of clarity: I think he didn't comment on the things he agreed with, for example that.

What he's getting at is that he doesn't view those games as platformers, hence genres are pretty crap as descriptors in his eyes. On the other hand, you use the platform genre as a fairly useful way of categorising and sub-categorising games mentally, so you do find it to be a good descriptor.

It's an opinion thang.

Maybe. I'm off to bed anyway (sleeping issues mean I am on tablets, so I am on a bit of a time limit after I take one, which was 30 minutes ago).

I look forward to whatever you two have discussed tomorrow morning.

[D-Side]

What he's getting at is that he doesn't view those games as platformers, hence genres are pretty crap as descriptors in his eyes. On the other hand, you use the platform genre as a fairly useful way of categorising and sub-categorising games mentally, so you do find it to be a good descriptor.

[One Man and his Dog]

And what does one statement have to do with the other exactly?

You claim you just questioned the term FPS with respect to certain games, whereas you clearly rubished the whole existence of the genre.

[One Man and his Dog]

Anyway, I didn't comment on the film comparison because I didn't think it was that useful. Besides which, TSAM isn't very funny.

Translation: it served as a decent counterpoint to your argument so you ignored it hoping that everyone else would forget.

TSAM may no tbe funny to you, but a lot of other people did find it funny (incidentally, I didn't either. You can say the same of Scary Movie). Going by your comments in this thread, obviously the millions who have seen TSAM and find it funny all got it wring and you are right. Your view is law. Apparently.

[D-Side]

That's because, for me, the term holds no value. Perhaps I wasn't being specific enough in this instance.

[One Man and his Dog]

And this time I am really going to bed. Night.

[D-Side]

Translation: it served as a decent counterpoint to your argument so you ignored it hoping that everyone else would forget.

TSAM may no tbe funny to you, but a lot of other people did find it funny (incidentally, I didn't either. You can say the same of Scary Movie). Going by your comments in this thread, obviously the millions who have seen TSAM and find it funny all got it wring and you are right. Your view is law. Apparently.

Shall I discuss this point at length? Nah, I'll not bother. It's fairly ill-founded and the little fucker's gone to bed anyway.

[One Man and his Dog]

That's because, for me, the term holds no value.

And that means you don't think that you can group a certain set of games as first person shooters or what?

[D-Side]

Oh Christ, just go to bed.

[Alex W.]

The topic's already reached a fairly good conclusion! Enough with the recriminations!

DIE, TOPIC, DIE!

(Or at least become interesting again)

[One Man and his Dog]

Shall I discuss this point at length? Nah, I'll not bother. It's fairly ill-founded and the little fucker's gone to bed anyway.

I look forward to seeing how it is ill-founded when I get up in the morning. Or are you trying to duck out of it as you know I have a point that you will struggle to counter?

Oh and this "fucker" (charming, you really do like to fall back on insults when your argument isn't going well, don't you) certainly isn't little, unfortunately. "Fat yet tall fucker" would probably have been more accurate.

Seriously though I have to go to bed. Getting a bit knackered now.

[Alex W.]

OMAHD: he's agreeing with you, to a point. He's not actually refuting the existence of genres, or their usage, it's just that he doesn't like using them, and he doesn't think they're very clear cut. For example, I consider shooter to be Ikaruga's most fundimental concept, he considers puzzles to be its most fundimental concept.

[D-Side]

Good. Go to bed, you fat fucker.

[Alex W.]

Good. Go to bed, you fat fucker.

That's not particularly helpful to your argument, you know.

[D-Side]

I know, but it is quite funny.

[Alex W.]

I know, but it is quite funny.

No, this is quite funny:

That's just not going to get him to agree with you or to let the thing go.

[jah-82]

no one ever said that genres were useful terms for defining a game, did they?

if they were, you would be able to review a game by stating its genre and giving it a score out of ten...

... but you can't, so genres are pointless... right?

[One Man and his Dog]

That's not particularly helpful to your argument, you know.

It has been typical of his argument all the way. It really has got quite tiresome.

[D-Side]

OMAHD, yesterday.

[One Man and his Dog]

OMAHD, yesterday.

Whatever. You obviously seem completely unable to discuss this without resorting to tiresome, childish insults. Are you 15 or something?

[D-Side]

Won't you tell us first? Me and Alex have a bet going.

[One Man and his Dog]

Won't you tell us first? Me and Alex have a bet going.

My age? I am 29.

[D-Side]

It really doesn't show in the slightest. Your inability to actually let go of the issue, coupled with the complete lack of a sense of humour puts you roughly in the late teens 'genre'. I suggest you get out more, sonny.

Looks like I owe you fifty quid Alex.

[One Man and his Dog]

It really doesn't show in the slightest. Your inability to actually let go of the issue, coupled with the complete lack of a sense of humour puts you roughly in the late teens 'genre'. I suggest you get out more, sonny.

I haven't let go of the issue as it hasn't been resolved.

Exactly what am I supposed to have laughed at and failed, thus branding me humourless?