Nintendo DS gains hefty 3rd party support

[kamrantaz]

nah GBA is for kiddies.

no way am i going to whip one out in the pub. i prefer my Ngage

[Paradigm]

i prefer my Ngage

Nintendo will be ruined if your demographic doesn't buy their kit!

*BIG WINKY SMILEY*

[Ktw]

The DS could well be a huge success with tons of excellent thirdparty titles. But it's pretty pointless getting excited about developers saying they will support it. Especially when we still don't know anything about it other than the fact that it has two screens and is intended for a fraction of the market.

That said, I for one hope it will be a great innovation and a huge success. You see, I couldn't care less about the N-gage and I'm currently extremely bored with my GBA. I certainly wouldn't mind some innovative handheld gaming.

[PopeSmokesDope]

Wow, and I'm sure nobody in the age range 16-30 owns a GameBoy Advance, do they?! You know, the Gameboy - the most popular video games system ever - it'll never catch on with *that* demographic.

The majority of Gameboy owners are children.

[PopeSmokesDope]

Now, let's see why the PSP won't get a lot of sales:

- Extremely expensive

- Probably not a lot of support due to Sony's unfamiliar proprietary crap (anyone remember the initial complaining about the PS2 dev. process?)

- Use of proprietary (and expensive) Sony memory sticks

- Battery life will be abysmal, making portability a no-go

- Nintendo already have a brand image in the market

- Remember the Game Gear? Lynx? Numerous others?

The Gameboy has always won because of the abundant software for it, as well as being low priced, portable, and having a decent battery life. The fact that a *monochrome* Gameboy beat off the Game Gear (backed by *Sega*) should tell you a lot.

To get the PSP released with a decent battery life they'll have to massively tone down the specs. At which point it won't be impressive power-wise, making the whole project a bit redundant.

Thats all complete and utter made up bollocks.

I like the bit about "propbably not a lot of support"

Thats a joke right?

How the fuck do you know what the battery life will be like? Are you an electronics engineer at Sony?

Erm, Sony, they have a brand image.. Playstation? you may have heard of it? the biggest Videogaming brand on the planet and one of the bigest electronis manufacturers in the world?

Expensive. Well the projected price is less than the ps2 was at launch.

Sony, remember, are not targeting intially at the gameboys market, which is predominatly children.

The 16-30 market is largly untouched when it comes to portable gaming.

most of your post is utter rubbish

[Paradigm]

Thats all complete and utter made up bollocks.

When you come up with a shred if proof contrary to what I've said, then it can be "made up bollocks."

I like the bit about "propbably not a lot of support"

Thats a joke right?

You've seen the list of people developing for the DS, yes? So what amazing Sony-only titles will the PSP have? Ooh, maybe Crash Bandicoot! Will it have a comparable number of developers? Er, no. You know that the GBA is easy to develop for, don't you? You know that the PS2 is hard to develop for, don't you?

How the fuck do you know what the battery life will be like? Are you an electronics engineer at Sony?

I have some common sense you patronising dickhead. Anyone with half a brain knows how much power a TFT screen consumes by itself, regardless of what type of battery you use, even if it's the best quality. Ever used a digital camera? Know how much power they steal? And you think that a handheld console which is purportedly pushing out way more polygons than the original PlayStation, as well as having a large TFT screen is going to last for a sufficient time? It'll be another Game Gear.

rm, Sony, they have a brand image.. Playstation? you may have heard of it? the biggest Videogaming brand on the planet and one of the bigest electronis manufacturers in the world?

Yes well done, and what presence do they have in the handheld market? None. Jesus Christ, does the word context mean anything to you? Sega, who were beating Nintendo in Europe when they launched the Game Gear, and had massive brand presence as well as some great first-party titles, *still* had their project fail for the aforementioned crippling problems.

Expensive. Well the projected price is less than the ps2 was at launch.

Wow, so less than £399 then? Christ, that's soooo cheap! You know, if given a choice between a console with the largest software presence on the market and the best games, for less than £100, or spending perhaps £200 more on a console without any major backing which is crippled by poor battery life and proprietary media storage, I'd be really hard pressed to make a decision

Sony, remember, are not targeting intially at the gameboys market, which is predominatly children.

I hope you don't actually believe that.

most of your post is utter rubbish

Precedent is on my side, not yours.

[PopeSmokesDope]

hmmmm,

I have some common sense you patronising dickhead. Anyone with half a brain knows how much power a TFT screen consumes by itself, regardless of what type of battery you use, even if it's the best quality. Ever used a digital camera? Know how much power they steal? And you think that a handheld console which is purportedly pushing out way more polygons than the original PlayStation, as well as having a large TFT screen is going to last for a sufficient time? It'll be another Game Gear.

How much power does a TFT screen on a handheld use then?

Yes I have used a digital camera thanks, and yes I know quite how long my battery lasts thanks.

So what if its pushing out more polys than the ps1? As time goes by, die's shrink power consumption shrinks. If you really belive that because its pushing out more polys than the ps1 its using more power, thenyou should realy study chip design a little bit closer.

Yes well done, and what presence do they have in the handheld market? None. Jesus Christ, does the word context mean anything to you? Sega, who were beating Nintendo in Europe when they launched the Game Gear, and had massive brand presence as well as some great first-party titles, *still* had their project fail for the aforementioned crippling problems.

Context means fuck all. They're not going after the hand held fucking market, which pretty much consists of kids anyway.

Your "crippling" problems, which you've fucking made up (because it doesnt exist yet, so how could you know what its problems are) are not crippling.

Yes well done, and what presence do they have in the handheld market? None. Jesus Christ, does the word context mean anything to you? Sega, who were beating Nintendo in Europe when they launched the Game Gear, and had massive brand presence as well as some great first-party titles, *still* had their project fail for the aforementioned crippling problems.

Its fucking SONY you cretin. Nintendo means fuck all to the average bloke on the street. Its initialy going to be sold to the type of person who buys T3 (ie 16 - 30 year old males) From there it garners a cool factor and sells shitloads.

Wow, so less than £399 then? Christ, that's soooo cheap! You know, if given a choice between a console with the largest software presence on the market and the best games, for less than £100, or spending perhaps £200 more on a console without any major backing which is crippled by poor battery life and proprietary media storage, I'd be really hard pressed to make a decision 

Sony = Going after 16 - 30 Market, = More disposable income

Nintendo = Sticking with their younger market (which is what teh GBA/SP are aimed at)

the price is imaterial. The wlakman was fucking expensive when it first launched, look at it now.

Again, you dont know anything about the fucking battery life, the propietary media storage means fuck all (unless you can tell me which high street store i can walk into and buy blank, OFFICAL gameboy carts, thanks)

You are passing off you own opinions as fact, which makes you, a proven liar.

Precedent is on my side, not yours.

Really? What was the last Sony handheld games machine released then?

[Paradigm]

the propietary media storage means fuck all (unless you can tell me which high street store i can walk into and buy blank, OFFICAL gameboy carts, thanks)

Just shows how much you really know about this subject.

Altogether now everybody!

[PopeSmokesDope]

Please point me in the direction of where I can buy these blank official gameboy carts please.

There is no difference between putting a game on Sony Propriatry format and Nintendo's. you have to get them pressed at their plants. Unless You can prove me wrong. Its not like PC games, where you simply get your own disc pressed up.

[dr_lha]

The PSP's main problem in terms of battery consumption, is not just that it's going to be very powerful and have a big, bright, backlit screen (presumably), but also the fact that it has something the Gameboy (and presumably DS) won't have: Moving parts.

The UMD is a disk drive and as such will take a lot more power than carts. Think about the iPod, the only way you can get 8 hours with this thing is by buffing the songs into memory and shutting off the hard drive. They won't be able to do this with the UMD unless games fully load into memory - which will defeat the object of having a disk.

I'll be surprised if the PSP has better than 5 hours battery life when played I'll be honest. Battery life is Sony's biggest hurdle, and we've yet to see how they're getting around it.

[pulsemyne]

  They won't be able to do this with the UMD unless games fully load into memory - which will defeat the object of having a disk.

Take a wild guess at what sonys solution is then. I'll give you a hint you've already mentioned it!

[PopeSmokesDope]

5 hours, for me, would be perfectly acceptable.

As long, that is, as it came with charger, so you could plug it in every night or something.

Why don't we wait and see what happens eh?

[Paradigm]

Sigh.

It's not about the format the games come on - I state again that you do not know the context of the whole debate. In the PSP specs it's listed that it supports Sony's memory stick technology, i.e. if you wanted to do anything multimedia on your PSP, or expand it, you'd need to buy their proprietary storage media. As it currently stands, you can buy a 256MB CompactFlash card for about £15 less than a 128MB memory stick, and the former is arguably the better medium anyway. All this means that Sony will twist the arm off the end-user, because they won't have any choice as to what medium they put data on to do all the "cool stuff" such a price tag should let you do. Hence why it'll be a rip-off.

How much power does a TFT screen on a handheld use then?

Yes I have used a digital camera thanks, and yes I know quite how long my battery lasts thanks.

So what if its pushing out more polys than the ps1? As time goes by, die's shrink power consumption shrinks. If you really belive that because its pushing out more polys than the ps1 its using more power, thenyou should realy study chip design a little bit closer.

TFTs consume a lot. Look how long a GBA SP lasts, and that's with a screen of lesser quality than the one in the PSP specs. I don't need to study chip design closer, thanks, you need to study the PSP specs better. It's running *two* 32-bit RISC CPUs, as well as the dedicated graphics engine. And then add on the 3D sound engine, and the power required for running the mechanics to read the discs, etc. If it was feasible to squeeze such a great amount of power into a handheld without having a woeful battery life, Nintendo would already have an N64-a-like out on the market. Sony are claiming it'll use a lithium ion battery. And with 802.11b LAN active, as any pocket PC user will tell you, it won't be running for long. I wouldn't be surprised to see them recommending you buy another lithium ion battery for it, which will be another £50...

Context means fuck all. They're not going after the hand held fucking market

Whoops, I must have mis-read that Sony were launching a hand-held gaming system then.

Your "crippling" problems, which you've fucking made up (because it doesnt exist yet, so how could you know what its problems are) are not crippling.

Because using common sense to work out how long the battery will last is all in my head I guess

Its fucking SONY you cretin. Nintendo means fuck all to the average bloke on the street. Its initialy going to be sold to the type of person who buys T3 (ie 16 - 30 year old males) From there it garners a cool factor and sells shitloads.

Well according to ABC, T3 sells 53,000 copies. Not really enough to have any discernable effect on global sales. And I don't care whether it's "SONY!11one", because brand means nothing if the end product is unattractive to the consumer. Do you think Sony have never had failures in the past?

the price is imaterial. The wlakman was fucking expensive when it first launched, look at it now.

Walkman = breakthrough product which was completely original and revolutionary.

PSP = not.

And considering what it did, it wasn't "fucking expensive", it was <£200; and that was for a product that did something unlike everything else, ever. Before the Walkman music in your pocket just was not possible. What is the PSP bringing you? You said "cool factor." Well excuse me if I'm wrong but last time I checked, "cool factor" isn't quite the same as "creating a revolutionary product and giving the consumer something they could only dream about."

You are passing off you own opinions as fact, which makes you, a proven liar.

Yet earlier you said my "crippling problems" weren't real. How can I lie about something that - according to you - doesn't exist?

Edit: that's my final say on the matter. If you don't agree with me then fine, but I won't continue this further - I've made my position clear enough.

[Paradigm]

Take a wild guess at what sonys solution is then. I'll give you a hint you've already mentioned it!

Considering the discs are (theoretically) up to 1.8GB, I'd be impressed to see it load that on 8MB of RAM.

[pulsemyne]

Basically you load as much of the level data in one go and use the disc system as little as possible. Common sense really.

[Paradigm]

As it only has 8MB of RAM it'll be writing to the memory constantly, one would presume. You're not going to store a lot on 8MB, so if an entire level is only that large, surely the whole concept of such a powerful handheld system is redundant?

Edit: hypothetically if it was to remain inactive for a level, obv.

[pulsemyne]

Well as far as I know thats how it is. Sorry I can't give out more info, I'd love too but I can't.

[dr_lha]

Basically you load as much of the level data in one go and use the disc system as little as possible. Common sense really.

Which will lead to a situation where some games drain batteries more than others, due to their "complexity".

Plus - what about Movies from the UMD, they will stream constantly from the disk. Will the PSP be able last 5 hours while playing movies as well?

I dunno - I just would like a device that can last a long car/train/plane journey and 5 hours of life is cutting it a bit fine in my books.

[The Liberal Elite]

everyone's an industry insider!

[Alex W.]

Stop being arses, folks.

There's not much technical information about the PSP yet, but it's safe to say that Sony aren't monumentally stupid enough to release a handheld with a two-hour battery life. Also, Sony long since confirmed in interviews that the PSP will have 24MB of RAM or higher.

Whether it succeeds or fails will depend on its price point, marketing, and the launch titles, all of which are absolutely unknown at this point.

Frankly I'm shocked that anyone would even think that the DS is going to be its main competitor. You couldn't have hoped for two more different products, yet here there are people saying that one's going to kick the other's arse.

Coming soon: Dyson to take on McDonnell Douglas' defence helicopter contracts with suckless vacuums.

EDIT: just making clear that the arses comment is a seperate entity to the rest of it.

[Nimmel]

You couldn't have hoped for two more different products,

They are hardly chalk and cheese. They will both play games on the move.

[Alex W.]

Yes, and one of them looks set to cost £300, have more non-gaming bells and whistles than a one-man-band, and the other will have two screens, motion sensors, touch-screens, and possibly wireless networking, and comes from a company with a heritage in producing things for pocket-friendly prices.

You'll excuse me if I don't consider them arch-rivals in the handheld space.

Still stunned at how much ranting prattle about the success and failure of each is being based on the slim details available now.

[Nimmel]

Still stunned at how much ranting prattle about the success and failure of each is being based on the slim details available now.

Well people like to argue, otherwise we would only have two posts a day in here.

I know what your saying about the differences, but I feel most people (i.e. not us on here) would only want one hand held device and so perhaps it will end up as a straight choice between the two.

[Alex W.]

Fair enough, but I want less "It's obviously going to use streaming, possibly to 1-T DDR RAM running at 300MHz", and more "Can they really make a brand new handheld market at three times the entry price of the old one?"

[PopeSmokesDope]

[

TFTs consume a lot. Look how long a GBA SP lasts, and that's with a screen of lesser quality than the one in the PSP specs.

You still havnt answered the question, how much power does a TFT screen, used in handhelds require to run? You stated that everyone knew.

I don't need to study chip design closer, thanks, you need to study the PSP specs better. It's running *two* 32-bit RISC CPUs, as well as the dedicated graphics engine. And then add on the 3D sound engine, and the power required for running the mechanics to read the discs, etc.

Which means that it will require shit loads of power? Why is that then? I think you do need to study chip design, you know, just because its powerfull it doesnt mean it will consume lots of power. Laptops have been going down this road for years.

If it was feasible to squeeze such a great amount of power into a handheld without having a woeful battery life, Nintendo would already have an N64-a-like out on the market.

Eh? Why would they? Nintendo are not exactly renowned for pushing out powerfull handhelds are they? They try to kepe the price down and their consoles profitable. I would imagine it would have more to do with profits than battery life.

Sony are claiming it'll use a lithium ion battery. And with 802.11b LAN active, as any pocket PC user will tell you, it won't be running for long. I wouldn't be surprised to see them recommending you buy another lithium ion battery for it, which will be another £50...

Its not a pocketpc though, is it. (and iirc the wan capabilities have been removed)

Because using common sense to work out how long the battery will last is all in my head I guess 

Yes, it is. You have no hard facts on power consumption, so you cant work anything out, can you?

Well according to ABC, T3 sells 53,000 copies. Not really enough to have any discernable effect on global sales. And I don't care whether it's "SONY!11one", because brand means nothing if the end product is unattractive to the consumer. Do you think Sony have never had failures in the past?

Nice logic there. You really, honestly don'tbelive the PSP is going to sell, do you?

Walkman = breakthrough product which was completely original and revolutionary.

PSP = not.

Having a massmarket , cheap (relatively) device that can play games, albums and films and comunicate with other devices all in a handheld, hmmm, I'd call that reveloutionary.

And considering what it did, it wasn't "fucking expensive", it was <£200; and that was for a product that did something unlike everything else, ever. Before the Walkman music in your pocket just was not possible. What is the PSP bringing you? You said "cool factor." Well excuse me if I'm wrong but last time I checked, "cool factor" isn't quite the same as "creating a revolutionary product and giving the consumer something they could only dream about."

I don't know how old you are, but $199 in 1979 equated to about $500 in todays money. That WAS expensive.

Yet earlier you said my "crippling problems" weren't real. How can I lie about something that - according to you - doesn't exist?

Passing off you own opinion as fact = a Lie.

[The Liberal Elite]

Anyone who says that they 'know' anything about the psp aside from the specs that sony have shown everyone is talking shit, basically. you all know about the battery consumption? based on what? do you really think that sony are spazzy enough to release something that makes the atari lynx look like a perpetual motion machine in comparison? Why can't anyone just wait and fucking see?

[Major Britten]

I think the PSP will sell loads just because it IS sony and playstation, simple as that. Also saying that style wont sell a system and that if given the choice people will buy a £100 system that plays games and not a £200+ system that can play games, do other things and is considered cool dont really know how the market works. Going by that logic (and seeing how the walkman keeps getting mentioned) the iPod should have been a huge flop; why would people want to pay £200+ for a portable music system when they can buy a mini disk player for £100 which can do the same thing (play MP3 music files)? Style and cool factor alone CAN shift a more expensive product and that is something Sony are very very good at.

[Transient Curse]

.

[vamecum]

has no one thought of the fact that one of the machines DS or PSP(or maybe even both), might not use TFT?

Ever heard of OLED?

Basicly, the sharpest display available, and it uses almost no power.

Go OLED!

[gavin the shifty]

the other will have two screens, motion sensors, touch-screens, and possibly wireless networking,

Is any of this based on fact? Kay, the two screens, but otherwise?