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The Alien Series


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They weren't planning on fighting loads of aliens. They went to investigate and became stranded, as well you know.

yeah, but send everyone on board down? Only one dropship crew? for the only way to get back to the ship?

It's like a massive naval vessel, yeah, sent trillions of miles to investigate something. Surely, given the history of the place there'd be some kind of contingency. Oh yeah... the company innit... just a test. Well, I feel the company meddling made alien less scary. I'd prefer it was a random encounter. Aliens took the idea and ran away with it.

fucking rubbish. If I'd been a marine I'd be all "fuck off. this is well dodgy.. the chief officer is shit as well. I'm staying in my fucking capsule and having a wank."

my other objection is the development of the "xenomorphs". They took something truly alien and turned them into ants, destroyed all the mystery for the sake of a big monster. Spazzy.

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I have a paperback Aliens script with a long introduction from James Cameron about how he came to be involved and developed the script. He did see it (as I mentioned) as a Starship Troopers thing, which explains the aliens-as-insects angle.

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I have a paperback Aliens script with a long introduction from James Cameron about how he came to be involved and developed the script. He did see it (as I mentioned) as a Starship Troopers thing, which explains the aliens-as-insects angle.

that only confirms my view that cameron cheapens everything he touches after terminator 1.

starship troopers pisses over aliens as well, in my opinion.

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Ressurection... horrible. The sheer campness of the fleshy alien was the most hideous abuse of geiger's design I've ever seen. Unforgivable... and I've seen plenty of rubbish monsters "inspired" by the original alien.

Giger said they made it look like 'shit. Literally shit.' And I agree, shocking movie.

In a bad way.

Alien is the only movie to really do it justice. One bad motherfucker on a ship and that's it. None of this gung-ho, 'EAT THIS' shit from Aliens. Bah.

Loved it as a teenager, mind you.

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starship troopers pisses over aliens as well, in my opinion.

You are of course entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong in the head it may be.

I agree on the other thing, but the original was such a brilliant film it would've been impossible for anyone to make a sequel that featured the alien in any way without cheapening it. It was worth it, though. Aliens is great.

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Alien is the only movie to really do it justice. One bad motherfucker on a ship and that's it.

Yep. I do love Aliens, but there's just something about Alien...

That, and judging from the material on the Making Of documentary for Alien, it's a wonder it didn't end up like one of those pulpy rubber-monster flicks of the 70s. By some bizzare magical accident, it turned into something utterly timeless and unique.

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The original Alien is far better than Aliens in my opinion. The creature in Alien is scary because it seems intelligent. It's like a stealth assassin type thing that is also hard as nails. Aliens turned the creatures into mindless monsters that were half as fearsome because they all seemed dumb as shit. By the time Alien: Resurrection came about the Aliens were nothing more that space villoceraptors (How’s that spelt anyway?).

Apparently Ridley Scott has a fantastic idea for a fifth instalment and is keen to get it made.

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None of this gung-ho, 'EAT THIS' shit from Aliens. Bah.

Loved it as a teenager, mind you.

me too... I flipped out when I first saw it, but looking at it with more mature, jaded eyes I realised it could have been so much more than it was if it had carried on the standard set by alien. Cronenberg or Lynch should have done it. Whilst it's an icon of it's genre (sci-fi action), it's actually a tragedy as it tarnished the alien franchise by associating it with big guns and bits of alien flying everywhere, hence the furore over alien3 which really isn't that bad in it's original form, if you imagine aliens was never made. This lead to the rubbish of ressurection, in some hideous attempt to redress the balance.

It made me realise how shit james cameron is. He fucked up the alien, tried to beat close encounters and failed, then fucked up the terminator and tried to beat james bond and failed. Then he made titanic. Wanker.

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I'm keen to take a look at Alien 3 directors cut then.

I own the original version on DVD.

I'm dreading alien vs predator

I'm thinking (from Paul Anderson's previous films), Alien Ressurection (awful film), mixed with Resident Evil (forgettable bollocks) and with a bit of Mortal Kombat chucked in to make it even worse :o

but what the hey, you know your gonna want to see it anyways when it comes out

predator.jpg

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[quote name='Scratchy_Bollock' date='Jun 2 2004, 01:23 AM'] The original Alien is far better than Aliens in my opinion. The creature in Alien is scary because it seems intelligent. It's like a stealth assassin type thing that is also hard as nails. Aliens turned the creatures into mindless monsters that were half as fearsome because they all seemed dumb as shit. By the time Alien: Resurrection came about the Aliens were nothing more that space villoceraptors (How’s that spelt anyway?).

Apparently Ridley Scott has a fantastic idea for a fifth instalment and is keen to get it made. [/quote]
That's something I've never agreed with - the creature in [i]Alien[/i] seemed just as gormless to me as those in [i]Aliens[/i]. In fact, if anything, the creatures in the latter seemed to show much more in terms of intelligence.

In the first film, you've basically got a few people who are in no way prepared for the situation they find themselves in (while you could argue the same about the Marines, they were at least in a far better position to cope) and their efforts are also being sabotaged by one of their own. Also, they were at a supreme disadvantage because, unlike the Marines, they couldn't afford to use anything on the creature that might cause it to bleed lest they risk a hull breach from its blood.

If you look at the kills, Kane and Brett were taken very much by surprise, Dallas was just plain unlucky/stupid and Parker, if he had any brains whatsoever, would've have just roasted the fucker there and then, hysterical screaming colleague in the way or not. At no time does the alien show anything other than basic animal cunning in the way it deals with situations.

The ones in [i]Aliens[/i], on the other hand, are smart enough to retreat from the gun turrets, cut the building's power, open doors, find an alternative point of entry to surprise the Marines and, when Ripley shows what kind of firepower she's carrying, back the fuck away from her and let her leave (if that egg hadn't have instinctively opened and Ripely gone apeshit, who knows...perhaps the Queen would've let them walk right out)

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I'm a massive fan of the series/franchise, not only having watched the films buit read (as far as I know) every novel in the series. I think Aliens is the best of the series, and it set up the universe in the way that all the fans know and love, just left with Alien it would have just been another 'monster in the shadows taking out everyone one at a time' fest (albeit the best of it's kind).

I love the way that The Company sets it all up - far more menacing than simply making it random encounters in space. It's the vile human attempt paired with the horrific nature of the beast that makes it so compelling.

Also, the aliens in Aliens are definitely smarter than that in Alien, and the Queen (and structure of the Hive) gave so much to the universe. I don't think that Aliens ever reduced the sheer terror of the original creature - getting impregnated was just as scary, and just because there was large numbers of them doesn't stop them still being horrific. If you need to be locked in a big empty spaceship with no weapons to make a creature scary, then there must be a problem with the creature. Certaintly, the books always retained the fear of a single alien, even in scenarios where the whole of Earth is over-run with the things. When the humans encounter a hive, it's not just thousands of cannon-fodder creatures, but a whole army of the most horrific things you can imagine.

I don't think Alien 3 is a bad film, it's just not a particularly good one either, especially as it 'does a Terminator 3' and undermines the story of it's predecessor.

I'd love them to make a new film which brings in the Elephant aliens, their presence in the books I also thought was uber-eerie, and it would bring something new to the (film) series oter than simply new breeds of Xenomorphs.

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[quote name='superfunk' date='Jun 2 2004, 11:02 AM'] What's all that about then? [/quote]
Remember the dead, petrified thing in the chair on the egg carrying ship in the first film? There was a comic once that explored them a bit, though I can't remember who they were or what their intentions were. Who knows, it's possible they actually created the damn things in the first place...

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Remember the dead, petrified thing in the chair on the egg carrying ship in the first film? There was a comic once that explored them a bit, though I can't remember who they were or what their intentions were. Who knows, it's possible they actually created the damn things in the first place...

Oh yeah. Cool. I remember thinking how mysterious they were, looking like they were moulded to their spaceship and everything.

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Alien is, without even a shadow of a doubt, the best of the series.

The Alien in Alien is perverse, cruel and quietly intelligent. It seems 'alien', and far more effective than the insect marauders of Aliens.

Having said that, Aliens is a brilliant film.

Alien 3 is a brilliant concept, but only one example of why CGI effects are the worst thing to happen to the movie industry.

R.

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Oh yeah... the company innit... just a test. Well, I feel the company meddling made alien less scary. I'd prefer it was a random encounter. Aliens took the idea and ran away with it.

There hasn't been a single film in the franchise that hasn't had the Company (or in the case of Resurrection, the USM) meddling. Right from the off, The Company knew there was something on LV426 - that's why Ash was programmed to ensure that the crew of the Nostromo (also a big fuck off ship, with a crew of 7 people - big fuck off ships are necessary for the space travel) took an Alien on board.

Aside from the poor shmucks living on Fiorina 161, there was never a single "random" encounter.

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There hasn't been a single film in the franchise that hasn't had the Company (or in the case of Resurrection, the USM) meddling.

Alien3 made the big mistake of actually showing the Company, rather than leaving it as a mythical entity. Boo.

It made me realise how shit james cameron is. He fucked up the alien, tried to beat close encounters and failed, then fucked up the terminator and tried to beat james bond and failed. Then he made titanic. Wanker.

Haha. Both Terminator 2 and Aliens fall in to the trap of thinking bigger, louder, and dumber equals better. So yeah. Boo to that too.

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Alien 3 is a brilliant concept, but only one example of why CGI effects are the worst thing to happen to the movie industry.

R.

IIRC, the effects in Alien3 were mostly puppets. CGI was barely used (if at all)

"Visual Effects

The movie contains one CGI shot of the aliens head cracking apart. Other alien effects were created with suits, animatronics and rod puppets composited optically."

This is from here

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There hasn't been a single film in the franchise that hasn't had the Company (or in the case of Resurrection, the USM) meddling. Right from the off, The Company knew there was something on LV426 - that's why Ash was programmed to ensure that the crew of the Nostromo (also a big fuck off ship, with a crew of 7 people - big fuck off ships are necessary for the space travel) took an Alien on board.

Aside from the poor shmucks living on Fiorina 161, there was never a single "random" encounter.

I'm of the opinion that the company meddling makes it less scary, though. I was hoping I'd made that clear. Oddly, I didn't mind the company turning up at the end of alien3.

Alien would have worked equally as fine if it was a random encounter and ash flipped out for some other reason (alien blood corroding a saftey thing in his brain or something). It would be scarier, a more realistic scary monster encounter... like stumbling across a mental bear in the woods. With the company directing things from behind the scenes, it's for the sake of saying "big corporations are cunts", which I think detracts from the terror.

Is the nostromo as big as the sulaco? I think not. I might be wrong though. The sulaco looks loads bigger than the nostromo does without the refinery.

as for sending soldiers to get impregnated... isn't that a bit dangerous? They've got guns and shit... fights will happen, people will die, aliens will die... surely if you're after a bunch of impregnated people, you send down a bunch of civillians with a massively well-armed and capable security team. The testing tactics against the aliens thing doesn't work either: why send such a tiny team with rubbish leadership? Surely that's a slamming indictment against the standard of millitary if that's the case.

as for Alien, the xenomorph in that was on it's own and very young. I figure that adequately explains it's mindlessness and apparent lack of intelligence. I find the idea of the hive intelligence hinted at in aliens as being another way of making them scary ants... it's just unimaginative... too familiar. That's the reason why the original alien is so scary... it's totally new, mysterious, unknown.. and that's the biggest fear at all.

what's more, there's a conceptual depth to the original alien that's totally lost in aliens. In ridley scott's film, the alien is a symbol for several things, from the shadowy demons of our nightmares to aggressive, transgressive sexuality. There's a sexual charge to the way both the facehugger and the alien do their jobs, with a suffocating vagina and a penetrating vagina (the alien's head is supposedly a cock with a biting vagina for a mouth).

In aliens, they're big scary ants... nothing more, nothing less. Totally demystifying the alien life-cycle by opting for an egg-laying queen shifts the subconscious root of the terror away from fear of the unknown and dark sexuality and towards a fear of insects, making the aliens much less alien and much more familiar and manageable. The fear shifts from a very adult, intelligent fear to a child-like, dumb one.

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They did send civilians - the people who lived in the facility. Once contact was lost it was necessary to retrieve the specimens, but they had to do it under a cover. That cover was send in a group of marines who would inevitably be killed by the aliens, and Ripley to get her killed and out of the way. They needed marines anyhow to ensure the safe passage of the specimens - a group of Burke-a-likes would have been slaughtered.

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They did send civilians - the people who lived in the facility. Once contact was lost it was necessary to retrieve the specimens, but they had to do it under a cover. That cover was send in a group of marines who would inevitably be killed by the aliens, and Ripley to get her killed and out of the way. They needed marines anyhow to ensure the safe passage of the specimens - a group of Burke-a-likes would have been slaughtered.

so the company send of a group of rubbish marines with an inexperienced and incapable commanding officer to retrieve the civillian specimens and get infected themselves?

sorry, but that's rubbish.

surely a company as badass as the corporation would do the job properly, with a proper containment team as seen in alien3? They certainly wouldn't need any cover to do the job with a place as remote as lv426. They could've sent a fleet.

I hate that kind of shallow development... it's a hallmark of cameron's films if you ak me. A bunch of ideas cobbled together because of the cool factor rather than any sense of consistency.

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surely a company as badass as the corporation would do the job properly, with a proper containment team as seen in alien3? They certainly wouldn't need any cover to do the job with a place as remote as lv426. They could've sent a fleet.

Sent a fleet of what?

I agree with you about the containment guys though, but presumably this wasn't thought out as the whole idea behind Aliens was a war movie in space.

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A bunch of ideas cobbled together because of the cool factor rather than any sense of consistency.

I don't know about anyone else, but personally, while having consistency and 'realism' is a nice extra to a film that makes it a bit more believable, I'd rather have 'cool factor' any day rather than having it all perfectly logical. Why not just get the eagles to drop the ring into Mount Doom while you're at it? The story in Aliens sets things up with sufficient reason that the film has it's premise. The company sending in a massive insanely well-equipped army of troops might have been more logical (to some), but it wouldn't have been as good a movie.

Besides, one of the main themes of the universe has always been that The Company aren't perfect - far from it. They're faceless (in the films anyway) and ruthless, but they're constantly mis-judging how dangerous the aliens are, which is where the problems come in.

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I realise it's all down to personal interpretation but I always thought that as far as [i]Aliens[/i] went, it was purely Burke's doing and no one else actually knew about it. Remember, he tells the colonists to check out the crashed ship, hoping he could claim the rights on whatever they find out there and planned to sell the embryos to the Bio-Weapons division (who, until the very end of [i]Alien 3[/i], never actually get involved personally, we just assume they're behind everything, Ash's order included). Burke was very much a company man but the marines were told exactly what to expect, they were just typically cocky and dismissive to the threat at hand.

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