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The Alien Series


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Sent a fleet of what?

troop carriers and bio-containment teams.

okay, I get the human arrogance angle, the burke's pet project thing too.

The bunch of cool shit cobbled together thing still irks me though. It's responsible for so many shallow films where the effects sequences are the only real value to be had from the film. Shit like independance day or the abyss. Aside from a few choice one liners, what's good about aliens aside the action scenes? A little girl? (who would blatantly be ripped to shreds/impregnated long before 6 weeks or however long it was she hid for)

given the potential for something amazing from alien 2, aliens is a dumbed down and sorry end result for me.

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Personally I love the second film, both as an entity on it's own and as a sequel to Alien. It's cool, it's interesting, and it's a completely different genre of film.

The aliens that attack Ripley, Hicks et al aren't the same as the Alien that attacked the crew of the Nostromo - they're warrior aliens, their only job is to protect the hive and grab new hosts. That's why they atttack in large groups, using minimal tactics beyond those required to reach the enemy.

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You could argue Newt is a metaphor for the ability of organisms to thrive in even the most hostile of enviroments, no matter how unlikely such things may seem.

Then again, you could also argue that the whole thing is a metaphor for the pioneering, brave struggles of Capitalism against the hive mind mentality of Communism and as something that can only end in mutal destruction. But then you'd probably be a mentalist.

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Personally I love the second film, both as an entity on it's own and as a sequel to Alien. It's cool, it's interesting, and it's a completely different genre of film.

The aliens that attack Ripley, Hicks et al aren't the same as the Alien that attacked the crew of the Nostromo - they're warrior aliens, their only job is to protect the hive and grab new hosts. That's why they atttack in large groups, using minimal tactics beyond those required to reach the enemy.

I used to love it, but I can barely watch it now without cringing. The way it takes a universe from an intelligent and masterful horror film and mangles it into a action film is grating. It kept the continuation of ripley as well, which I still feel is the biggest crime of the series.

Where does the info that the aliens in aliens are a different class to the one in alien come from? Surely the first egg depository in the derelict would count as a dormant hive? If we're going into the comic book/ novel offshoot territory, it's all invalid to me, as it is with the star wars stuff.

newt:

Hmmmmmmmm. I can see that. There's little to support it though... she didn't have any cunning tricks to survive (as organisms that thrive in harsh conditions generally do). She just hid... I'd prefer to think of her as bait, kept alive by the queen to lure in some humans but there's not enough info that say that either. To be honest, I don't see newt as much more than a ham-fisted attempt to redress the balance of ripley loosing her family cos she was in space for so long.

captialism v communism:

hmmmmmmmmm again. However, the company/burke want to capture the aliens... this doesn't ring true with the ideological clash theory... In fact, both sides want to capture each other for thier own reasons whilst also destroying each other. Perhaps more a metaphor for how clashing ideolgies seek to assimlate thier enemies as the ultimate expression of control?

again, there's not the kind of cues or info in aliens to suggest this... alien is loaded with provocative imagery to suggest the sexual connotations that provide a basis for it's terror.... like the sliding of the tail along ripley's legs, or the dripping juices from the alien's jaws.

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If you've read the graphic novel 'Newt's Tale', you'll know that she went into the air ducts and ventilation shafts just after everyone else got butchered, and the aliens couldn't get her because they were too big!

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If you've read the graphic novel 'Newt's Tale', you'll know that she went into the air ducts and ventilation shafts just after everyone else got butchered, and the aliens couldn't get her because they were too big!

graphic novels etc... don't count. They're a cheap way for apologists to make up excuses and fill in stuff the film should have done in the first place.

See: the kessel run parsecs thing with Han solo.

The point is, it's no more valid to the films than fan fiction unless the director and scriptwriter do the story.

yeah, newt leads them through the shafts, but then a little handheld gizmo could show schematics... the motion sensor should, too.

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well I agree it should have been in the film anyway, but this particular graphic novel (unlike another I have) shows the part after Newt's dad gets facehuggered up to where the marines come in.

You get to see what went on - how Newt's dad let out a chestburster, then a shitload of Aliens came over from either the crashed ship or some other hive, broke into the colony, all the colonists basically end up in one room, they send out teams to fight the aliens but the aliens kind of use them as bait so the colonists open the doors and all the aliens burst in and then Newt's family along with everyone else gets wiped out and Newt pegs it.

So its not really making any excuses or stuff up, cos it did happen its just for some reason they left it out.

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The official, edited-out-of-shooting-script way the Aliens got to the colony is that after Jordan got whacked, the terraformers sent a pretty big rescue party out to the rover, and then they went down into the ship to see what was going on- so dozens of colonists get attacked en mass in the egg-chamber. Which'd've been cool on film, if expensive to do in the 80s.

Aaaanyway- after the farce of Res and the uber-arse-up that AvP will be, I'm just praying Scott does what he's been mumbling about for a few years and makes a new, good Alien film. One that visits the actual Alien homeworld, maybe- the work-load of designing a whole planet would probably kill Giger, but it'd be the wierdest thing, like, EVAR.

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Just make Alien 5: Earth War.

Its obvious, yeah. But it seems to be where the series was going (without Resurrection). Alot of the books basically support this storyline, so I think theres alot of good material to be used.

The Alien homeworld would be great too. In the same film it might be a bit 'Starship Troopers', but I think the unique Alien universe needs to have it done.

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I used to love it, but I can barely watch it now without cringing. The way it takes a universe from an intelligent and masterful horror film and mangles it into a action film is grating.

But, as I'm sure you'd argue, the original Alien gets everything spot on. Where would be the sense in simply making a horror sequel in the same vein? It would almost certainly be inferior.

Aliens takes the potential-filled universe and creature from the first film and takes it in a new direction. It has its own unique merits and themes - for example the criticism of US military arrogance, the facing off between the two mothers at the end. Not to mention amazing battle scenes.

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I used to love it, but I can barely watch it now without cringing. The way it takes a universe from an intelligent and masterful horror film and mangles it into a action film is grating.

But, as I'm sure you'd argue, the original Alien gets everything spot on. Where would be the sense in simply making a horror sequel in the same vein? It would almost certainly be inferior.

Aliens takes the potential-filled universe and creature from the first film and takes it in a new direction. It has its own unique merits and themes - for example the criticism of US military arrogance, the facing off between the two mothers at the end. Not to mention amazing battle scenes.

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Where does the info that the aliens in aliens are a different class to the one in alien come from? Surely the first egg depository in the derelict would count as a dormant hive? If we're going into the comic book/ novel offshoot territory, it's all invalid to me, as it is with the star wars stuff.

The aliens in Aliens are differently designed to the original, and the original treatment for the film describes them as Warrior aliens.

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I love Alien and Aliens but as great movies of their genre.

However, with Aliens I found the Hicks character to be totally fantastic and I will never forget my excitment at hearing that Alien 3 was coming out - waiting in the queue with my friends, talking about it and then finally sitting down to watch it...then seeing one of my all time favourite characters killed by a shit script.

Dead in a heartbeat. Hicks. Gone.

Fuck they even killed the little girl. And Ripley to be honest wasn't that upset.

The little girl, a surrogate for her own who was an old lady, dead. Hicks, the man whose life she had fought so hard to save and who was in love with her. Dead.

Alien 3. Pile of fucking pish.

And don't even talk about 4. Don't. It has one cool thing and that's Aliens in the water.

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so the company send of a group of rubbish marines with an inexperienced and incapable commanding officer to retrieve the civillian specimens and get infected themselves?

sorry, but that's rubbish.

surely a company as badass as the corporation would do the job properly, with a proper containment team as seen in alien3? They certainly wouldn't need any cover to do the job with a place as remote as lv426. They could've sent a fleet.

I hate that kind of shallow development... it's a hallmark of cameron's films if you ak me. A bunch of ideas cobbled together because of the cool factor rather than any sense of consistency.

Sorry if someone else has already thought of this but I thought Burke had worked this out on behalf of the Company. He hadn't run many (if any) of the details past them because he wanted the lion's share of any royalty deals. (At least, that's what some of his talks seemed to suggest.)

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so dozens of colonists get attacked en mass in the egg-chamber. Which'd've been cool on film, if expensive to do in the 80s.

That would probably be unintentionally hilarious, though. :rolleyes:

I mean, John Hurt getting attacked raises a chuckle from time to time, unless it was done very, very well (in which case it would be amazingly horrific) having loads of them attacked by loads of leaping huggers would just look silly.

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Watched the Director's Cut version of [i]Alien[/i] last night - some general thoughts on film (my first viewing in years) follow...

*Ripley comes across as being self-serving and cold, which is actually good and contrasts well with what appear to be Ash's caring, humanitarian reasons for letting the search party back on board. It leads you to think that she could be the one who betrays the others while trying to save her own skin when in fact, she was only being entirely sensible the entire time and suffers for it, as when Lambert clumps her outside the sickbay (see also Dylan Moran's character in [i]Shaun of the Dead[/i], the poor sod)

*The (tiny) extended scene where the creature looks at Jones in his box and smacks it out of the way was a cute touch - finally, we can lay rest to the claims that poor cat was in on it all along!

*Perhaps I never noticed before but the sight of the creature curled up amid the chains and machinery above while Brett drinks the falling water drops was great, though they needn't have reinserted Parker and Ripley running in after he's killed.

*I miss the scene where Dallas asks Mother his chances before going into the vent, like a condemned man confessing to a priest before meeting his fate. I realise it was cut for pacing but always found it quite a poignant...

As for the extras, truly one of the best set of docs and materials on any disc I've seen. Loved hearing how Yaphet Kotto would decide on some days to fight back and refuse to die, there's a great pic of him with his hands throttling the creature's tongue.

Back to the great [i]Aliens[/i] debate and all I'll add now is that I think Cameron made the right choice - it was better to do something completely different instead of retreading the old ground of the creature stalking people around corridors ala [i]Alien 3[/i]. Ridley Scott already perfected the gothic horror style approach so making something similar would've just been leaving it open to unfortunate comparisons. As for the difference in look between the creatures, it's really mainly down to Cameron thinking the clear dome was too fragile to be used on the creatures given how much more to do in the sequel.

Anyway, there's loads of stuff to talk about, the supplementary materials are absolute an [i]Alien[/i] geek goldmine but I'll stop now...

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