Can anything be done?

[Phelan]

Could we complain en masse to both the magazines involved AND Atari for the game that is Driver 3 and the reviews it received based on non-finished code.

Nick Ellis said that the game was not finished and they were told that it would be when released which by the reaction by many this is simply not the case.

So, as a large enough group is there anything that we could do to complain about this?

I'm sure we could enlist the help of other forums and take this forward to try to get honesty back into mags and to prevent companies like Atari doing this to gamers.

PS - Twas Tyagi's post about contacting Trading Standards which got me thinking about this.

[Systemshock]

Could we complain en masse to both the magazines involved AND Atari for the game that is Driver 3 and the reviews it received based on non-finished code.

Nick Ellis said that the game was not finished and they were told that it would be when released which by the reaction by many this is simply not the case.

So, as a large enough group is there anything that we could do to complain about this?

I'm sure we could enlist the help of other forums and take this forward to try to get honesty back into mags and to prevent companies like Atari doing this to gamers.

PS - Twas Tyagi's post about contacting Trading Standards which got me thinking about this.

Three things:

1. Not buy the game

2. Not buy PSM2 ever again

3. Never buy a Reflections/ Atari game ever again

[Phelan]

Well I don't intend to buy it or PSM2 ever again.

As for the Atari thing I pretty much vowed to stay away from their games for a while since that whole Enter the Matrix incident.

But is there anything else? Each of us draft a letter to both Atari and Future?

[routeburn]

Three things:

1. Not buy the game

2. Not buy PSM2 ever again

3. Never buy a Reflections/ Stari game ever again

Firstly, we are an infinitely small number of people in comparison to the number that don't read magazines and who will wander in to GAME (or wherever) and pick it up because the shop is flooded with marketing/hype about the game. Not buying the game will NOT make a difference.

Secondly, I've bought PSM2 a handful of times. I've not much interest in reading dedicated, official, magazines. Again, I would doubt whether a large percentage of the PS2 owners on this forum (or somewhere like NTSC-UK) do read PSM2.

Thirdly, a resolution not to buy a Reflections/Atari game would last just until a new, top, title came out of either company.

I don't count these as options.

Finally, the allegations and complaints made against Atari, Future, and other publishers, are currently nicely contained within a few dedicated forums that only a small minority of potential customers will ever read. The debate becomes a much greater problem when aired more publically and Mr+Mrs Jones, picking up The Daily Mail on Sunday read a piece on how the nasty videogames industry is ripping off their little Johnny with overpriced, unfinished, sub-standard, software. That's when you make a difference.

[macosx!]

I'm conditioning myself with a Pavlovian method to hit myself with a nailed bit of wood should I ever consider buying an Atari game again. Matrix, Driv3r and Shadow Ops (another travesty of a 7 in XBM)

The old adage ' Build it and they will come' has been used by Atari as 'Half build it, then spend a huge amount on marketing and bungs (allegedly) and they will come'.

The only thing is, they won't be coming back.

[routeburn]

Do you think that 95% of the customers walking in to GAME even know that Driver 3 is published by Atari? (or care?)

[jcafarley]

The sad thing is that a lot of people will buy it and think its the greatest thing ever.

Is it just people like us, those 'in the know' who will see the flaws (sorry, curious) in the game?

[Meers]

Too late with the 'not buying' thing; it's #1 in the charts already.

[layten]

+

[Darren S]

I resolved to never buy an EA game again after I stumbled across a bug in Little Big Adventure after about 12 hours play which meant I had to start from the beginning all over again.

My resolve lasted until the next decent game from EA came out.

[Meers]

I resolved to never buy an EA game again after I stumbled across a bug in Little Big Adventure after about 12 hours play which meant I had to start from the beginning all over again.

My resolve lasted until the next decent game from EA came out.

EA has decent games?!

[Quexex]

some kind of online patition would probably be most effective as not buying (as said already) will not be very effective since there isn't that many of us so no one would notice.

As I said an onlie patition (sp whateva...) which could then get covered by some game sites could be quite effective... maybe along the lines of patitioning atari for the version that was reviewed (or a version with all the bugs fixed) coudl be quite effective as opposed to a direct assult especially if we damaned replacement copies for our falty ones

Cheers

Quexex

[MK-1601]

3. Never buy a Reflections/ Atari game ever again

Why punish Reflections for Atari's dishonesty?

[routeburn]

Good idea, unfortunately, petitions rarely have a great deal of effect. Especially electronic ones as they're so easy to forge and falsify.

One idea may be for someone to prepare a letter or email template, expressing the views or concerns (to be agreed, obviously) which can then be sent directly to either consumer groups and/or to the games and magazine publishers involved.

What we do need is some ideas here for different approaches to taking action in terms of what form it should take and who it should go to.

[Quexex]

Good idea, unfortunately, petitions rarely have a great deal of effect. Especially electronic ones as they're so easy to forge and falsify.

One idea may be for someone to prepare a letter or email template, expressing the views or concerns (to be agreed, obviously) which can then be sent directly to either consumer groups and/or to the games and magazine publishers involved.

What we do need is some ideas here for different approaches to taking action in terms of what form it should take and who it should go to.

That's a good idea I'd be happy to send stuff from my email to the relevant parties. Maybe watchdog (is a series running at the mo?) plus a coupl of news sites like the BBC to see if they can get any mileage out of the story.

Cheers

Quexex

[Salsa Party Animal]

Why Reflections games and their engine are all shite. From Demolition Derby to Driver 3

[Sprite Machine]

I've become increasingly annoyed with Reflections' output to the extent that I will henceforth outright refuse to buy another game developed by them. Too much disappointment, too much frustration.

I'm thinking they either haven't got a clue anymore, or publisher pressure is having hugely negative effects on their work (who was Driver 1 published by? It wasn't Infogrammes was it?).

[Thread Astaire]

If you bought the game then granted you have something to moan about. If you didn't then I'd suggest you get over it. The game was crap. I didn't buy it and hence have nothing to complain about. This forum is full of this type of bemoaning crap where you have nothing better to do but bitch about shite games that have been made.

get out more.

[SixT-4]

A reader review:

Supes gave it a 9:

I think this game is awesome, it's way better than GTA, there are so many details like the fact that you can't ignore red lights and you have to respect speed limits(unless you want the Miami Police Department on your tail) and the coolest of them all: you can SWIM, let alone shooting people inside their cars. The game also looks realistic, I mean it doesn't have that cartoonish look the GTA games have, the highways are awesome too. I still dont understand how Gamespot could've said what it did about this game, maybe if reviews were written by hardcore gamers instead of frustrated, unemployed, overconfident game developers the scores would be different. Anyway if you're willing to ignore some minor gameplay flaws you could have a lot of fun with the game with the coolest car chases ever.

Maybe it's someone from Atari

[PeteJ]

Driver may be at number 1 in the charts, but it is also being returned by an awful lot of people. It's going to clog up the second hand market for ages.

I am more annoyed with the two magazines than Atari. You'd expect a publisher to try everything to sell a game, but you'd expect a magazine to remain honest. Write lots of letters demanding an apology, or something.

[Sprite Machine]

I am more annoyed with the two magazines than Atari. You'd expect a publisher to try everything to sell a game, but you'd expect a magazine to remain honest. Write lots of letters demanding an apology, or something.

You'd only get replies saying "but we really liked it, honest!".

[Caleb Newcastle]

Well if we try anything we'll be up against some pretty stiff competition....

[decider]

(who was Driver 1 published by? It wasn't Infogrammes was it?).

GT Interactive, which I'm guessing was acquired by Infogrames/Atari as they originally published Unreal Tournament as well.

Shadow Ops (another travesty of a 7 in XBM)

Shadow Ops is a 5 at most, totally average. It looks and plays like a Quake 2 engine derivative.

[PeteJ]

I like how people already know how GTA:SA looks and plays like, even though only a handful of screens have been released.

Great sig by Orion_Auron, too (on the page Caleb posted).

[Phelan]

If you bought the game then granted you have something to moan about. If you didn't then I'd suggest you get over it. The game was crap. I didn't buy it and hence have nothing to complain about. This forum is full of this type of bemoaning crap where you have nothing better to do but bitch about shite games that have been made.

get out more.

Hi Thread,

I take it you have no idea what you are talking about? I only gather that from what you just posted.

This isn't about a game being shite - this is about a game being released that is not near finished (yes I have played it) and forcing (allegedly) magazines to review it to a high standard by threatening advertising and also by giving pre-release copy and lying to journalists stating that the bugs WILL be fixed.

It's not about one game being shite. It's about gamers and those not so well informed as a minority getting duped by a big game name, advertising and reviews which miss out the obvious problems.

So if a kid can only get one game every two months do you think it's ok that he is lied to by reviews and the company parts with 45 quid and ends up with a game which isn't that good?

An anonymous gamer involved in the industry sent me this:

When a guy pushes drugs in this country, and gets caught, he goes to jail.

Why are shops selling it? It's not finished. They have NO Quality control themselves. GAME are a terror here, they'll stick anything shop front as long as its got a shiny box.

It's a different, strange, way of looking at it - but if the shops could say "We WONT stock your unfinished shite" then maybe things would be different.

Would Comet sell a Hifi CD System which didn't have speakers? No.

Would HMV stock a CD single with half the track missing...who knows they might - but I doubt it.

[Phelan]

Well if we try anything we'll be up against some pretty stiff competition....

I'm sure we could take them

[decider]

Has anyone actually seen it on sale for £45 or is that just a rumour?

I haven't seen it at that price, not even at GAME (£39.99).

[Sprite Machine]

An anonymous gamer involved in the industry sent me this:

When a guy pushes drugs in this country, and gets caught, he goes to jail.

Why are shops selling it? It's not finished. They have NO Quality control themselves. GAME are a terror here, they'll stick anything shop front as long as its got a shiny box.

It's a different, strange, way of looking at it - but if the shops could say "We WONT stock your unfinished shite" then maybe things would be different.

Would Comet sell a Hifi CD System which didn't have speakers? No.

Would HMV stock a CD single with half the track missing...who knows they might - but I doubt it.

Worst... analogy... ever.

[Phelan]

Hey I'm just printing what the dude said.

To be honest here's the way I see it.

Atari have no doubt the game is not that good. They ensure high scores, spend a whack on marketing, flood the market with copies at 45 quid a pop and then sit back to rake in the cash.

Sounds like Enter the Matrix to me!

[robotattack]

Has anyone actually seen it on sale for £45 or is that just a rumour?

I haven't seen it at that price, not even at GAME (£39.99).

I believe it's supposed to be the RRP, but I don't think anywhere is actually selling it for that.