Jump to content
IGNORED

ico, rez, and...?


Guardian
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guardian, you might reconsider your choice of font size, unless you really want people to skip over your posts. It's really hard to read on high resolution screens.

And using some capitals every once in a while wouldn't hurt either.

I agree. It's far too small and annoying!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rez was hardly the first game to go down this road.

Square did a similar thing with Internal Section.

Jeff Minter also did similar things on the cited Tempest.

I mean, games are suppose to be about having fun. Whatever the style.

To make a game for art's sakes in a concept of sorts, but it must not take away the games prime directive. To have fun.

As for ICO, well, no. Defender of the Crown did it far earlier so its not new.

Its new on PS2, but games have been art for ages.

Have you seen the backgrounds on GT4 and how they interact with a three dimensional moving playarea?

Thats art. When a picture can induce Virtigo.

it sounds like you're only considering visuals. it is the entire capsule of presentation-character-gameplay-feel(control)-sound-visuals and their perfect marriage that lead me to experience a game like ico as "art" or whatever we're using to designate games of such quality experience.

as for my font, i use 1024x768 resolution, and i'm not used to talking to people with higher resolutions--it should have occurred to me since you are all gamers. the stanfard font size here looks a bit bubbly to me and i prefer smaller, more refined looking text. but i do want people to read what i say, of course.. as for capital letters, i am simply against them. they make a block of text jagged.

this okami game does look incredible, and if it's from the makers of viewtiful joe i can get excited about the play as well. the very japanese setting, story, and ideas do look promising, but i've let myself be drawn in by similar trappings before (otogi: myth of demons, for instance) only to be disappointed by their incorporation in the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no apologies are necessary for thread hijacking; it's always interesting/fun and i'm used to it where i come from. as for attempts to lay down parameters for a truly arty game, i don't think that can really be done. the quality we're talking about seems to come more from the seamless blending of the game's every aspect or from some ephemeral "experience" granted to the player. it is likely to be totally unique and uncategorizable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as for capital letters, i am simply against them. they make a block of text jagged.

Not wanting to take the thread too far off line, but that's the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever heard.

Now, back to the topic in hand. You don't have to get everything right to create an "artistic game". Ico's controls were flawed in several ways.

But you do need to create something new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- Consistency and coherency of the gameworld, perhaps? A game shouldn't detach you from it's environment with FMV and whatnot. Example: Half-Life has no FMV and all of the story is told through the eyes of Freeman - through the eyes of you...HOWEVER...Half-Life does destroy it's consistency by putting in those bloody Xen levels.

that consistency is something i always look for in games. in X's thread reviewing disgaea, i asked if the game forces the player to shift between story and battle modes like final fantasy tactics does or if the game is more coherent. this is definitely of importance in all games, i think, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, my opinion: games are entertainment. HOWEVER, if they were arty, the qualifiers for games being arty would be things like:

This seems to come up quite often; that because videogames are games they can't be art.

Football is a game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Games is just bloody art and entertainment into one.

Without art there wouldn't be a game, without game it is just an animation.

All I care is fun, and how well it is put together as whole package. Gameplay, audio, graphics, animation, subtiltles, plot, game design and navigation.

So please shut up Art Critics. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Games is just bloody art and entertainment into one.

Without art there wouldn't be a game, without game it is just an animation.

All I care is fun, and how well it is put together as whole package. Gameplay, audio, graphics, animation, subtiltles, plot, game design and navigation.

So please shut up Art Critics. :)

No need for an IP check: Legendary IS Melvin Bragg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as for capital letters, i am simply against them. they make a block of text jagged.

"damn you rules of correct grammar, ruining the beautiful aesthetics of my writing!"

You know, I hate the word "the", it's such a cliche. From now on I shall cease from using it!

Anyway, back on topic. Problem with art discussions that happen is that they are always linked to quality, and what people percieve to be "worthy" of term art. But art has a long history of making shit. Muzak is art. Horrible pictures that hang walls of Pizza Hut are art. That games have (arguably) yet to show any true expression or meaning is irrelevant. Because rubbish art is still art.

There are genuine arguments of why games aren't art. I remember Rev Stu had some good ones, I think they involved inherently passive nature of art. But that games aren't "good" enough to be art is a flawed argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd agree with that.

But I remember disagreeing with the Rev on his guidelines. By saying that art must essentially be passive, he's drawing a line in the sand that exists only to be crossed. (Which it has done for many years)

Art=artificial. You create it, therefor it exists as an expression of you, interactive or not. No excuses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This discussion reminds me of the drivel we were discussing in the first year on the Academy. The good thing is that after a while all cliches have been mentioned, and you can go to the pub instead.

Deep :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This seems to come up quite often; that because videogames are games they can't be art.

Football is a game.

But it's filled with artistry :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of graphics, Ikaruga. But I don't think there are any games this generation as artistic generally as ICO and Rez.

Titles which I believe are special for doing something interesting and individual (like ICO and Rez) are:

Mad Maestro

Flipnic

Pikmin

Fantavision

Frequency

Luigi's Mansion

Viewtiful Joe

Magic Pengel

They're 'artistic' but it's stretching it a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of graphics, Ikaruga. But I don't think there are any games this generation as artistic generally as ICO and Rez.

i think ikaruga qualifies all around. its gameplay is perfect. the player's abilities are simplified and the most is made of them. there is nothing extraneous whatsoever. the game is as poetic as ico; every element is logical, up to the final boss's last attack mode, which is a fitting finale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point, I do agree actually. I guess I find so many people that don't put much time into Ikaruga but still appreciate it that I think 'well if they don't play it like I do, it seems wrong to call it artistic when it's clearly so excluding'. But being difficult doesn't make something non-artistic so yeah you're right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

right, just like that film critic who didn't get anywhere in ico. he didn't know how to go about playing it. i think he could probably have made a better effort, and the same goes for people who like shooters but find ikaruga too hard. it's basically the ultimate shmup and it requires effort to get to the point where you're not just trying to survive and you can actually work on chains and getting a high score. it's also like people who play siren and don't go through with it because the narrative seems disconnected initially. sometimes you have to have faith in the game and make a more lasting effort to get to a point where you understand it.

now we can argue about whether or not a great game needs to be an accessible one. personally, i think that games like ico and ikaruga have great learning curves, although i've read that siren doesn't have one at all. anyway, siren is disqualified for its localized british accents. *five hundred sad faces*

have you ever seen ikaruga superplays? i can give you the link. they are beautiful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of shooters, many are about gracefully showing off in the most stylish manner possible, and in this respect I'd like to add Dodonpachi for the brilliant flow of the game and how it allows for beautifully-constructed combos.

And abstract art? Anything by Minter (esp. Iridis Alpha - my favourite game ever).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

right, just like that film critic who didn't get anywhere in ico. he didn't know how to go about playing it. i think he could probably have made a better effort, and the same goes for people who like shooters but find ikaruga too hard. it's basically the ultimate shmup and it requires effort to get to the point where you're not just trying to survive and you can actually work on chains and getting a high score. it's also like people who play siren and don't go through with it because the narrative seems disconnected initially. sometimes you have to have faith in the game and make a more lasting effort to get to a point where you understand it.

now we can argue about whether or not a great game needs to be an accessible one. personally, i think that games like ico and ikaruga have great learning curves, although i've read that siren doesn't have one at all. anyway, siren is disqualified for its localized british accents. *five hundred sad faces*

have you ever seen ikaruga superplays? i can give you the link. they are beautiful.

I own the appreciate DVD and can one credit the game with 20+ million. I even got into the world rankings when they were still up. Most people barely scratch beneath the surface of Ikaruga, but like I said you're right that this accessibility issue has nothing to do with whether it's artistic or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just out of interest, is there currently an Ikaruga style game available for the PC despite classic retro shoot-em-ups such as SWIV?. I would say FFVII, but that is purely because it tells the story so well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems to me that most* people are picking the games they think are 'art' just on graphical look. For me, what makes a game art, is what you do in it, and this sets it apart from films and gallery art.

my choices (to name 2):

Pacman - the way your initial task in the game (avoiding being caught), is flipped on it's head and you get to do the chasing is pure genious.

SpaceInvaders - you can never win. No matter how good you are, and how many aliens you kill, they will take over the earth. Harsh, but thought provoking.

EDIT:

Link to the past - the over laying of a dark and light world within one single game world. again.

Ocarina of TIme - the time travel aspect and the little touches of seeing events change in later years (not the 1st game to do it, but certainly one of the best)

and many more...

*not all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems to me that most* people are picking the games they think are 'art' just on graphical look. For me, what makes a game art, is what you do in it, and this sets it apart from films and gallery art.

my choices (to name 2):

Pacman - the way your initial task in the game (avoiding being caught), is flipped on it's head and you get to do the chasing is pure genious.

SpaceInvaders - you can never win. No matter how good you are, and how many aliens you kill, they will take over the earth. Harsh, but thought provoking.

EDIT:

Link to the past - the over laying of a dark and light world within one single game world. again.

Ocarina of TIme - the time travel aspect and the little touches of seeing events change in later years (not the 1st game to do it, but certainly one of the best)

and many more...

*not all

it's hard to comment on the older arcade games. on the one hand, they certainly get simplicity down, but the gameplay doesn't really intensify in more than the most superficial ways.

games like link to the past and ocarina are wonderful, but they don't have the simplistic gameplay of the three games i'm championing (ico, rez, and ikaruga). maybe the best word to describe what i'm looking for is 'poetic'. those three are all poetic games. or, better perhaps, haikus among poems? i give up, i'm going to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.