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Ico, Rez and Super Monkey Ball


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i was referring to something someone else said. you can't believe one game is art and another isn't. it's all or none i'm afraid. e.g. Tracy Emin is art, absolutely crap art but art nonetheless.

Who was saying that Castlevania isn't art (even if it's not as "good art" as, say, Ikaruga, if I may be so bold)?

Also, art isn't "all or nothing", IMO. I consider some movies to be art, but I'll be damned if I consider most porn to be art just because it's created using video cameras.

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Who was saying that Castlevania isn't art (even if it's not as "good art" as, say, Ikaruga, if I may be so bold)?

i can't remember who, possibly dieseljunkie, apols in advance if i'm wrong.

Also, art isn't "all or nothing", IMO. I consider some movies to be art, but I'll be damned if I consider most porn to be art just because it's created using video cameras.
Jeff Koons?

i don't have a problem with people seeign the artistry involved in a title such as Ico but i'd rather people spent more time examining it's gameplay aswell as it's aesthetic qualities.

if we're going to call games art, remembering i don't consider them to be art, then we should at least be examining titles with gameplay that could be considered an art. e.g. Pacman, Tempest 2k, Tetris. Monkey Ball etc.

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if we're going to call games art, remembering i don't consider them to be art, then we should at least be examining titles with gameplay that could be considered an art. e.g. Pacman, Tempest 2k, Tetris. Monkey Ball etc.

Well, naturally, but you can't really consider gameplay in isolation, any more than you should consider movie-unique parts of movies in isolation.

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Having thunk some about all this, I think that games should be celebrated for their differences from other media. Applying already existing models and theories to games is an educational dead end, IMO. Games are not movies, books, sculpture or art. They are their own media and thus should have their own basis for discussion.

And this catch all that everything is Art is fucking nonsense.

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Having thunk some about all this, I think that games should be celebrated for their differences from other media. Applying already existing models and theories to games is an educational dead end, IMO. Games are not movies, books, sculpture or art. They are their own media and thus should have their own basis for discussion.

And this catch all that everything is Art is fucking nonsense.

thank you. you've managed to put into words what i've been trying to say myself. very well put.

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i don't have a problem with people seeign the artistry involved in a title such as Ico but i'd rather people spent more time examining it's gameplay aswell as it's aesthetic qualities.

that's what i meant when i asked if you had missed my posts--i wrote a lot on that topic. in fact, my feeling is that if the gameplay is not appreciated as part of the game (when the game is evaluated as art) then you might as well be talking about a series of drawings or a movie.

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