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Why I Hate Squaresoft


biglime
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I played FFVIII until somewhere in the fourth disk where it was taking me 2 hours for 1 fight.

Of all the FFs I've played, FF8 is the one which is the most brutal about levelling- being even a couple of levels or GFs short of what was deemed "suitable" for the fight generally trebled the amount of time needed.

FWIW, I find the argument that the Final Fantasy series started going downhill by having more variety incredibly bizarre. I somehow doubt that the earlier games were deemed classics by limiting you to three fields and a shed for settings, and that FF7 was the first game to give a more varied world.

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And anyone who says the older games didn't have so many random battles/dialogue/text/story bits, etc, etc, as the newer games is LYING. Yes.

KotOR was (as is the case with most 'Western' RPGs) an aimless, directionless mess... with really bad combat.

If Squaresoft (and 'Japanese' RPGs in general) do one thing right, it's getting everything 'focused' tightly. You cite these 'linear' stories and lack of 'freedom' as a bad thing... but I find that western RPGs have no aim, no focus... just lots of boring wandering around generic locations with half-hearted combat lazily intergrated into the game and very little point to any of it.

I hope to GOD that Square don't try to follow the path of these awkward semi real-time boring 'free' RPGs like KotOR et al; I'd really weep if they stooped to such a level.

*looks at the FFXII footage and sheds a tear or two*

i love you.

square's earlier games aren't really any different from what they're doing now. there hasn't been any change or decline in quality. the only thing i can think of in gameplay that has changed is that they have recently been obsessed with making things much more complex than they need to be--grid spheres or days of the week for weapon tempering or assinine affinity/material systems. and i will admit that those systems have killed a couple of otherwise enjoyable games for me. but fundamentally nothing has changed between ff6 and ff10.

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Except that the storylines aren't as intruiging as they once were. IMO naturally.

I can see how a person new to the Final Fantasy series can be sucked in by whatever is the latest installment, but once you've played and experienced one then you've essentially done them all. The core 'theme' of the story never changes, just the characters and the setting, which I reckon is why we all don't find it so interesting anymore.

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I can see how a person new to the Final Fantasy series can be sucked in by whatever is the latest installment, but once you've played and experienced one then you've essentially done them all. The core 'theme' of the story never changes, just the characters and the setting, which I reckon is why we all don't find it so interesting anymore.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. I adore Final Fantasy VII but find many others in the series to be tedious. I can't help thinking it's NOT because Final Fantasy VII is a million times better than the others but because like you say, you've seen one, you've essentially seen them all.

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FF7 and FF8 at least had the balls to tell a familiar story with extremely different characters and settings and tones from eachother. Superficial, but enough for me to find FF8 fresh after FF7 (for example, FF7 had more of a sense of the macabre about it, whereas FF8 had this weird kids-at-war thing going on, in spite of the fact that they're both "force of evil trying to take over universe" tales writ long). The newer FF games, on the other hand, don't even have that, with FF10 revisiting the setting of FF8 and FF9 being a massive pile of things from previous installments.

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And some people actually liked random turnbased battles..  ;)

this is something that i cannot believe.

"rpg"s as we know them have a serious problem. they insist on playing up character development in a numerical, systematized manner, which is very cool and satisfying. but they force the player's success in the game to be based largely on these numbers. the player's dextrous and even tactical skills ususally take a backseat to simple statistics. this is retarded. i'm still waiting for developers to find a way to compromise and get rid of necessary stat-building

EARTHBOUND (yes, i'm bringing up earthbound again!), of all the rpgs i have played, hit the most successful balance here. i'm not talking about the necessity of the player's making smart choices to succeed, because there are others that manage at least this much. but earthbound is special because while the player's ability and choices matter, there is also an emotional connection/impact with the characters' growth that a lot of games miss. for me, it is something noticable throughout the game, but the obvious example is ness's psychological trip towards the end of the game that culminates in an exhilerating story-based level-up session. although the character development is quantified just like in any other rpg, it actually means something to you in this game.

actually, i apologize for refuting the quote above. i do enjoy the random battles in earthbound. but the fact that i can see the enemies and have a chance to avoid them or win through the automatic victory system helps a lot with that, and the fights actually connect you to your characters' progress. final fantasy's multi-part problem is this: it does not often bring you into contact with older types of enemies, so you do not get the satisfaction of being able to defeat them easily and thus noting your development ("i'm so much stronger now!"); the levelling up is too mandatory to progress; and finally there is no emotive aspect to the quantified character development. you don't fight recurring villains who remark "ah, you've gotten better!" you don't find any story elements that prompt levelling-up. even gaining new abilities is rarely tied to the story. the gameplay is disconnected from the story and, for that reason, uninspiring. when playing an ff game, you are only playing to get to the next slice of fmv. it's disgusting.

i'm still waiting for rpgs to conquer random battles. it's such a bitch when you take several different branches in a dungeon to find treasure and each time you backtrack you're wondering how many more steps you can make before you'll be forced to endure another unnecessary fight against some demonic magma rodent who you will never, ever, EVER see approaching you. oh, but at least you know how many of these stupid things there are in the level: infinite. what unfun torturous crap. in an ff game, i never even care when i get a level-up. i don't think, oh squall who i really care about just became a stronger and more able fighter. i think, thank god squall is less of a pussy now and the random battles might end one round sooner. the fact that square (and almost everyone else!) have continued to make games this way for over a decade is revolting.

worst of all, though, i'm not sure if any of the rpgs i have ever played are at all role-playing games. ico is more a role-playing game than any final fantasy has been.

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No, you're wrong! :(

Well it seems to be doing something right, the GC hasn't been used this much in about a year!

Haven't tried it yet, maybe this'll be the game that changes my mind about AI controlled characters. Still don't see the point in even having them though. :lol:

Tales Of Symphonia is ace Laine! One of my favourite RPG's ever, honestly. It's fantastic and the AI isn't so dumb, you can get them to act freely or tell them exactly what to do, such as only attack magical monsters, attack from a distance and to heal other players when health is low. It all works fantastically, and so far I haven't experienced a "you stupid idiot!! Why'd the hell did you do that?" moment.

I actually prefer it over the over-rated FFVII :o

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Guardian is fast becoming my favourite poster in this part of the forum. I don't agree with everything he says, but he certainly qualifies his statements with reasons I can relate to. Good guy.

i can't tell you how much i appreciate that. my online self (fashioned after my actual self) has come under fire lately, and the encouragement is hugely welcome.

i wish more people would reply directly to my thoughts though. i feel glossed over often.

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hey, don't just say that. really reply to my post. tell me what you so enjoy about playing ff.

HE IS SEPHIROTH! HE HAS NO NEED FOR PUNY ARGUMENTS BECAUSE HE HAS A BIG FUCK-OFF SWORD!

(Sorry sephiroth, couldn't resist :()

Oh and Guardian, I must admit that I found your last post was, well, particularly well thought out and well written. The fact it's something I can almost entirely agree with helps, admittedly, but I must admit I was impressed by it. One small word of advice though - many people on this forum are grammar nazis - me included - and can be put off even the soundest of arguments by simple bad formatting on the behalf of the writer. And unfortunately you repeatedly fail one of the basic rules of forum writing, which is the use of capitalisation within your posts.

I know it's not that big a deal, but it would help people to take you more seriously, and wouldn't take you that long to do, so I'd heartily recommend that in the future you try to capitalise the first letter in each sentence. It helps, I promise :)

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HE IS SEPHIROTH! HE HAS NO NEED FOR PUNY ARGUMENTS BECAUSE HE HAS A BIG FUCK-OFF SWORD!

(Sorry sephiroth, couldn't resist :()

Oh and Guardian, I must admit that I found your last post was, well, particularly well thought out and well written. The fact it's something I can almost entirely agree with helps, admittedly, but I must admit I was impressed by it. One small word of advice though - many people on this forum are grammar nazis - me included - and can be put off even the soundest of arguments by simple bad formatting on the behalf of the writer. And unfortunately you repeatedly fail one of the basic rules of forum writing, which is the use of capitalisation within your posts.

I know it's not that big a deal, but it would help people to take you more seriously, and wouldn't take you that long to do, so I'd heartily recommend that in the future you try to capitalise the first letter in each sentence. It helps, I promise :)

I've had enough of you fucking nancies.

Let's see:

Wiper has girly hair,

Guardian is long winded and dull,

and Sephiroth would be scared of being stung by a Spelling Bee.

*phew*

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I've had enough of you fucking nancies.

Let's see:

Wiper has girly hair,

Guardian is long winded and dull,

and Sephiroth would be scared of being stung by a Spelling Bee.

*phew*

Hey, *all* of them could apply to me, you big gayer you!

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*lalala*

1_kittylove2.jpg

chiyo-chan.png

Cute pretty things make everyone on the forum happy (except biglime, who's a big meanie-head)!

Edit: and for the discerning lady/homosexual chap:

sq-bale-shirtless-mira.jpg

Well *I* think he's pretty hunky at least...

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thanks for what you've said. i actually am a bit of a grammar nazi myself, and, believe it or not, i'm also a tutor in my university's writing center. however, i don't like capital letters and in my informal message board posts (as well as anywhere else i can avoid them) i tend not to use them. i don't like to choose which words deserve capitalization. it sounds stupid, but i don't care. if you hold a gunblade to my head (chortle) i'll condescend to capitalize the first letter of each new sentence, but i will not distinguish between common and proper nouns. nor will i capitalize every letter of my thread title excepting "to", "of", "from", "and", "or", "the", etc. i am not without a sense of linguistic propriety, but this sense is my own.

and yes, i am long-winded. but only when i have something to say. and that's more than i can say for you, ed.

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centre

Damn straight. And if you're such a grammar nazi, how come you've got your stupid vendetta against capital letters?

EDIT: Oh, I didn't read the rest of your post where you talk about it. Why? Because the lack of capital letters makes it headache-inducing to read.

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thanks for what you've said. i actually am a bit of a grammar nazi myself, and, believe it or not, i'm also a tutor in my university's writing center. however, i don't like capital letters and in my informal message board posts (as well as anywhere else i can avoid them) i tend not to use them. i don't like to choose which words deserve capitalization. it sounds stupid, but i don't care. if you hold a gunblade to my head (chortle) i'll condescend to capitalize the first letter of each new sentence, but i will not distinguish between common and proper nouns. nor will i capitalize every letter of my thread title excepting "to", "of", "from", "and", "or", "the", etc. i am not without a sense of linguistic propriety, but this sense is my own.

and yes, i am long-winded. but only when i have something to say. and that's more than i can say for you, ed.

This may be the worst post I've ever read.

R.

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