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Videogame Uni Courses/degrees

Jaysus

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Jaysus

Jaysus

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OK, so who here has done or is doing a videogame related degree?

First up, why do one? Why not just do a computer science degree or something more established?

Are videogame degrees really taken seriously by employers?

For those of you who have done one, how easy was it to find a job afterwards - does the degree really help?

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zektbach

zektbach

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In the process awaiting my UCAS forms to apply for 2 courses.

Videogame Production, and Videogame Technology... both at the University of Dundee Scotland.

Essentially both courses would take me through 4 years, doing 2 full games, and with a 3 month work placement with one of many game development studios around the world. Optional modules in Japanese studies are available to apply for a 3 month work placement in Japan in the 3rd year of the degree. Can't wait if I get in \o/

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Flockheart

Flockheart

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Recently graduated from Abertay's BSc(Hons) Computer Games Technology and currently working as a games programmer for a small firm. Several of my peers are now working at some of the big games companies (Some are members of this forum so I'll leave it up to them if they want to share their employers names).

The course covered both console (we worked on Yarozes however the modules are now for PS2)and PC coding (C, C++, Java, OpenGL & DirectX) aswell as covering stupidly difficult maths and physics as well as more standard computer science stuff.

By doing a games related degree you cover alot stuff to do with graphics programming and simulations that I don't think normal Computer Science courses will cover.

Of course it depends on the degree, Abertay's Games Tech course is very difficult and will demand most of your life in the latter years but it will give you the skills and knowledge to build games. Personally I'm not sure of the value of some of the "Games Designer" courses that have popped up (no offence to anybody who is on one). I like so many other people want to be a games designer but I don't believe any serious company will employ you initially as one, IMO the only way to get there and be good at design is to do the grunt work and really get an understanding of how a games is produced.

One thing you have to get used to if your on a video games related course is explaining to people that you don't actually have any actual classes in "playing games" and that can get really annoying after you've been up all night coding.

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Rushy

Rushy

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OK, so who here has done or is doing a videogame related degree?

First up, why do one? Why not just do a computer science degree or something more established?

Are videogame degrees really taken seriously by employers?

For those of you who have done one, how easy was it to find a job afterwards - does the degree really help?

1. I did BSc (Hons) Computer and Videogames at Salford Uni

2. I wonder that myself sometimes, would I have been better off to do a more specific degree? Probably yes but what the degree does show is my passion and focus on videogames.

3. Most employers I have spoken to do take it seriously, but remember its worth nothing/little in comparison to experience.

4. It wasn't easy to find a job as each and every job I tried to get required experience. So the chances are that even though you have a degree you will have to start from the bottom and work your way up. BUT with a degree you will find you will move up the 'ladder' much faster if your good at what you do. I like to think I've progressed reasonably fast, having got out of QA within a year and hopefully its onwards on upwards from here :unsure:

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jawadx

jawadx

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Hey, I'm one of the peers that Handle mentioned in his post. He's pretty much said everything to with the course at Abertay. The only thing I can add is that I have learned a lot from doing this course. The main thing it offers is greater oppertunities than conventional Computer Science courses. My final honours project was on writing a graphics library on the PS2 linux kit and I just don't think that would have been possible on a Computer Science course. The best example that I can give is that I was in a annual competition held at Abertay, called Dare to be Digital, in which teams of 5 ppl have to make a prototype game in 10 weeks. There were 7 teams this year and 4 of those teams were from Abertay. 3 of them, including the team I was in, wrote their game engines themselves, whereas the others got/bought their game engines. I strongly feel that it was because of the course at Abertay that allowed us to to do this (We won the Rare Technical Excellence prize btw :unsure: ).

Also,

In the process awaiting my UCAS forms to apply for 2 courses.

Videogame Production, and Videogame Technology... both at the University of Dundee Scotland.

Essentially both courses would take me through 4 years, doing 2 full games, and with a 3 month work placement with one of many game development studios around the world. Optional modules in Japanese studies are available to apply for a 3 month work placement in Japan in the 3rd year of the degree. Can't wait if I get in \o/

I assume you mean at Abertay Dundee cos I don't think they do courses like this at Dundee Uni. But anyway, the videogames production course is new for this year but I'm not sure how good, or should I say useful, it is. It's more about the design and producing of games, as well as the business side of it. The reason why I say it may not be useful is that I don't think that side of business can be taught, it's something that takes experience in the industry. I personally can't see someone going on that course and then going into a games design job. However, the Computer Games Technology course is a different story. I think it is fast becoming more serious in the eyes of the industry, as they are realising that it might be offering something more than the usual. I must stress this tho, the CGT course is NOT a computer games design course. Many ppl make this mistake and end up leaving because they don't realise how hardcore it is. It about the skills required in the programming of games. Don't get me wrong tho, there are oppertunities to make games, but the design behind those game are not what's it about.

Anyway, after 4 years and Dare to be Digital I now work at EA. Several others are at Visual Sciences, Denki, Criterion, Elixier (sp?) and at EA as well. The course definitely helped.

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Rin

Rin

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I'm doing one. I thought it might be closing myself off a bit, but you seriously cover almost the same stuff as the Comp Sci degrees. Speaking from my experience. You still do that harder maths stuff. You still do all the programming and computing things. Particularly the first year of it is very similar to other computing courses. The difference (in my course) is that you also do game lessons involving design, theory, concepts and programming. In my first year I learnt Dark Basic aswell as Java. Where I do it, the Computer Science and Game courses are the 2 hardest computer related courses to get into.

So basically, I know the title makes you think it's very specific. And it does get less general in the last 2 years. But you still qualify for all the same stuff as the other computer degrees. And you still cover a lot of the same material. Don't go into the course thinking every lesson will be about games. It doesn't work like that.

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oli

oli

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I'm doing one. I thought it might be closing myself off a bit, but you seriously cover almost the same stuff as the Comp Sci degrees. Speaking from my experience. You still do that harder maths stuff. You still do all the programming and computing things. Particularly the first year of it is very similar to other computing courses. The difference (in my course) is that you also do game lessons involving design, theory, concepts and programming. In my first year I learnt Dark Basic aswell as Java. Where I do it, the Computer Science and Game courses are the 2 hardest computer related courses to get into.

So basically, I know the title makes you think it's very specific. And it does get less general in the last 2 years. But you still qualify for all the same stuff as the other computer degrees. And you still cover a lot of the same material. Don't go into the course thinking every lesson will be about games. It doesn't work like that.

You, me, blazing sunset, tear filled eyes.

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Zoltar

Zoltar

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Hey! I too am from Handle and Jawad's legendary Abertay Game Tech Graduates 04, Hooooo!

I think a games course such as Abertay's is a great introduction to the industry, you get what you give and will come out with a portfolio.

Will it help you get a job? I asked Peter Molyneux what industry people thought of courses like ours (I should point out Abertay was the first and only one I knew of when I was applying, apparently there are 72 such courses throughout the UK now) and he said that because they were so new no one was really aware of what level people from the courses were at. Getting a job is really about the portfolio and the passion I guess.

Another point is that when I was looking for work I found my girlfriends degree (Maths) seemed more desirable, companies were advertising for Physics and Maths graduates with no programming experience, so there are probably more direct ways in to be honest. One of the courses I turned down to go to Abertay was Artificial Intelligence at Edinburgh, I'd like to think had I done and passed that, getting a job in AI for games would have been 'more straightforward' if you will.

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Kyoshiro

Kyoshiro

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I started doing a computer science degree last year, but didn't really connect much with it. I only really enjoyed programming, the satisfaction of getting something out of programming, not all the theory of the more academic side of computing which has no relevance to games programming. So I'm starting again this year doing physics, and I'll keep programming games. I have no doubt I could teach myself a fair bit, and if I still want to get into games I can do a one year Msc at Hull in games programming.

I remember someone saying that regardless of background if you really want to get into the industry enough you will do so.

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Alan Stock

Alan Stock

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I joined Rushy on the Salford Computer and Video Games course, we were in the guinea pig year. Although the course was supposed to make games producers most people used it to specialise in their chosen field (art, programming etc), as the course was modular. I chose the most designy related things as I wanted to enter the industry as a designer.

The course gave us all the kit and programs we could need for the most part, sadly though the course was disorganised and good tutors for subjects like design were hardly ever supplied. However, we did a lot of team projects and the course gave us the chance to work on our portfolios a lot. So over the 3 years we gained a lot of teamwork experience and working on game related projects in small teams. The best part experience-wise was making our own game in the final year, in teams (you can see our game's website in our sigs).

In terms of how much the course helped me to get a job, I think it was still more valuable than any other course I could have done (considering my field is design). I was also lucky enough to get a part time testing job at Warthog in my last year of uni. As Rushy says, the fact you've chosen a games course shows employers that you are very commited and passionate about getting into games. Unfortunately not many games companies know anything about these courses so it's up to you to explain to them what skills you've learned and what experience you've gained.

I saw doing a games course as a portfolio and skills building excercise. If you treat it as that, use the tools you've been provided with, and make some good portfolio stuff, it doesn't matter about the quality of the course. In my case I promoted the key things I thought companies would look for:

- Experience in working in teams on games projects

- Learnt the basics of every aspect of games development (art, programming, design, sound, project managment).

- Working throughout the course with people outside my specialisation (e.g. programmers, artists etc).

- The final year project of making a game

- My portfolio, built up of coursework and stuff I did in my own time.

Companies seemed to be quite impressed with this, and I was told I seemed to have come away from the course with a lot more than other graduates they'd interviewed from other courses. However, I don't think it was the particular course I chose to do that helped me. You should be able to get the most out of any games course you pick, providing you make the effort to concentrate on areas games companies are going to be interested in. And, if your course isn't teaching you these things, use the facitilies they give you to learn in your own time, and work on your portfolio.

The course you go for should depend on your specialisation. There's no point in going to Abertay if you want to be a designer (as I realised when I went to their open day when I was picking games courses). It's worth researching all the courses you are interested in and trying to get opinions of people who've been on them. There are some really good courses out there and some really, really bad ones. Do your research and don't believe the hype that the course tutors will tell you. If you find yourself on a really dire course then I would quit and join another as soon as possible - you're basically wasting your life as you'll get no valuable experience from a poor course.

As for getting into the industry into the position you want it depends a lot on the position. As a programmer or artist there are quite a lot of oppurtunites in the UK for employment as a graduate. A sound person is going to have a lot of problems and will probably have to establish themselves individually as a freelancer, its almost impossible to get a sound related job without experience. A producer is never going to enter a producing job in the games industry straight away, the best way to get there is from another specialisation after a number of years. A designer is very very hard to get into straight away too, the easiest way is likely to be through QA (testing).

I knew design was very hard to get into and unfortunately the past year was terrible for the UK market too so getting a job was even harder. It took me from November last year to June this year to get a job in design, even with about 9 or 10 interviews I always lost out to more experienced designers. Finally I got my lucky break at Bigbig as a junior designer. Every job I applied for had stupid amounts of applicants so I was happy to even get interviews. I had decided after my course to wait and try and get a design job rather than go via QA (I didn't want to have to spend years in QA before I could get into design). Now I think I should have gone for a QA job straight away and the experience could have helped me get a design job later as Rushy did. I would seriously recommend getting into design through QA or another specialistion if you have no games industry design experience already, unless they are looking for junior designers. Fortunately I eventually got lucky after a lot of perseverence and hard work, so it is possible.

As for entering QA, after taking a games course you are going to be in very good stead, you already have a passion for games and providing you are logical and are good at communicating you shouldn't have too much trouble getting in.

I know this has been a huge post but I thought I would offer all my advice on the situation as I've been there and done it! Hope it helps.

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El Stevo

El Stevo

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I know this has been a huge post but I thought I would offer all my advice on the situation as I've been there and done it! Hope it helps.

Thanks for going to the effort of typing that post! Some really good advice. I'm hoping to start a similar course next year so that was very interesting, cheers.

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Jennifer Aniston

Jennifer Aniston

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Teesside's where it's at now. Abertay's on the way out. Plus there's the upside of not having to live in Scotland (JOKE).

I'm not sure you can validate that argument unless you've been through both courses.

And isn't teeside stabcentral? after croydon of course.

To be fair, Dundee is a great place to live because it's one of the few places in the uk where you can get away with living on a student's budget, ie you have more money than the locals.

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Rushy

Rushy

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oh, can i throw some petrol on the fire and question if it's possible to teach game design? ;) surely that's like trying to teach someone to be creative....

It isn't possible to 'teach' creativity but what it is possible to do is help people to reach their potential by utilising their skills which they have more effectively.

There are elements of game design which can be tought though; document writing, communcation skills, project management etc...

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Spiral

Spiral

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oh, can i throw some petrol on the fire and question if it's possible to teach game design? :) surely that's like trying to teach someone to be creative....

:rolleyes:

I'd imagine teaching Game Design would be like teaching film, there are going to be certain things that have happened before that would be worth knowing about. Things like level layout, control interfaces, team organisation, etc could all be talked about and explained to a certain degree. I've only got second hand knowledge of film degrees though, so I might be well out on that. Personally I didn't sign up for an art degree, so I was fine with the creativity stuff going the way of Rod Hull on a roof.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Kyoshiro

Kyoshiro

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I'm assuming you already know how to use Word, congratulations you can write a design document.

That's like saying 'I'm assuming you already know how to use a pencil, congratulations you can draw'. The technique in designing a game isn't using a word processor, anyone can do that, it's what you do with that word processor. Just like the technique in art isn't the use of a pencil or paintbrush, anyone can use that, it's what you do with it that's taught.

You think they teach you how to write properly with a pen in english classes?

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