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The Apology


Cyhwuhx
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is Fable this game where you control different people, like in the forrest etc and you have to carefully choose whether to use young people who are good at exploring/combat or old people who are wiser etc?

Or is that B.C. I saw it in that PBS videogame show last night.

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I suspect this was the case. However, when I met him, I was treated as a child. Although, admittedly, it wasn't only him that was doing it.

Never be in a BBC documentary, kids!

So what you're really saying is that when you met him, you behaved like a child then? :unsure:

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.::: Wether he makes good games or not is not at the issue here. He did however realise it might be better to present certain features later on in the game.

B&W is a shit game to me, but only because it was completely misaligned with what I was expecting from the coverage it got. It was talked about so much that the hype generated an entirely different game.

The same as if Criterion had been touring the nation promoting the insane amount of cars in Burnout 3. While anybody who has played it knows it are just different paintjobs. Criterion aren't in error though, there are that many cars available, they wouldn't have lied. But the spin it gives on the perception of said feature is humongous.

Apologizing like this is certainly brave, and although we may lose a bit of his noticable enthusiasm, I think it's for the best. I want a game to be surprising, and I don't want to be reminded at every step what didn't make it into the game of was done differently.

Yes, then don't read the hype, I know. But can you should down your freinds about it as well? Customers? Other media outlets?

Remember the Yoshi's Island-effect? Being surprised at a completely new game and not even having time to fully grasp the game. Just being able to play and revel in it's goodness.

Black & White could have been such an experience as well, but because you already knew the starting stuff, it was boring (so you would skip it as soon as possible), the latter stuff became dissapointing (as a result and because you wouldn't find what you were looking for).

Of course you need to promote your game with the entire publishing thing going on and such, but blowing open your entire game is just bad. Fable was to be a success because it was to be the ultimate Xbox RPG, fanboys will pick it up regardless (just like there's no way in HELL HALO 2 is going to flop). But critically..?

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Fable will be remembered alongside Zelda or Final Fantasy or Fallout, just as 'that overhyped RPG' despite it having obvious good points and being enjoyable.

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Maybe he needs some media or P.R. training. Then he can blurb out stuff like all other industry people:

"At Lionhead®, we are very excited to work with {insert developer}™ on {insert game}®. We're also excited to have full support of {insert publisher}® to make this a high quality entertainment product for {insert manufacturer}®'s best selling {insert console}™ videogame entertainment system™."

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PRINCE OF LIES.

True.

Come on, this isn't someone getting so "enthusiastic" about their game that they let their mouth run off too much. PM has consistenly lied to the press to generate buzz about his products. Like at e3 where in front of journalists (and wide-eyed Fable developers?) he talked about the great co-op multiplayer features. He did that purely to steal the limelight from other games at the show. The final game ships with _no_ multiplayer.

Imagine if Dyson went around saying "my next vacuum will not need emptying" and then when appeared in shops, and everyone bought one, it did. And then he said "Oh sorry, I was so carried away with my great ideas, I couldn't help talking about them."

Every game that gets made has a hundred and one things they'd like to do, but reality (and the practicality of implementing stuff) prevents it. And most people hold off on promising the moon-on-a-stick stuff because they know it isn't going to happen. Ideas are cheap; it's implementing them that's hard.

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Nice of him to say that, although he did say pretty much this exact speach in that kikizio video on the net.

I can't see why people keep going on at him. He's made some really great games, and the stuff that's actually in production at Lionhead and its satellite studios looks ace.

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The thing with Molyneux is that he breaks all the rules of PR. He promises a lot - and I have no doubt that he would love to deliver what he promises. But the consequence of the inevitable failure of delivering to 100% what he promises is the inevitable backlash and the hating. It's simple PR - the kind of PR that has companies refusing to talk about stuff that is in the early days of R&D. Contrast this with Molyneux who will talk about stuff YEARS before release.

But as previously mentioned the alternative is safe, bland and utterly meaningless typical PR guff. His projects are most susceptible to broken promises simply because he does try to have his studios innovate and take risks and do a lot of research during the course of development. No company manages to get everything they research to a state where it is commercially viable.

I'd rather have Molyneux mouthing off about what he would like to deliver in his games than read another bland PR statement. Clearly he needs to do a better job of communicating the fact that not everything they research will be in the final game. Also, magazines should also be savvy enough to call him on a lot of the stuff he says - but that would hardly make for an interesting interview or article I suppose.

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I think people should respect PM for what he HAS done. Also, he's enthusiastic about games, and what he would like. What's wrong with that! We need as many people as possible that have crazy as shit ideas, or cool ideas, and push to make them.

Or we can keep playing all those EA games*

*Irony being Lionhead have been published by EA :unsure:

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PM is a pratt. I've never liked the guy. However, the real fault lies with games mags printing his bollocks. They must know what he's like by now, yet they still keep printing everything he says.

At least he produces interesting games. I just wish he would lock himself away somewhere and get on with it!

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Peter is a great guy, a very nice, friendly chap who is very easy to converse with, especially about videogames. He's great for the industry, we need more like him, and I for one hope he DOESN'T hold back on details (true or not) in future hyperbole. I don't care if features don't make it into the final cut, I enjoy hearing the ideas, the high-level dream. It's always entertaining.

Anyway, he doesn't have anything to apologise for. Fable is really quite good.

Internet weenies, keep your childish insults to yourself.

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PM is a pratt. I've never liked the guy. However, the real fault lies with games mags printing his bollocks. They must know what he's like by now, yet they still keep printing everything he says.

At least he produces interesting games. I just wish he would lock himself away somewhere and get on with it!

He's a big fan of yours I hear.

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I always was opposed to the Molyneux hate-brigade, and I've said probably a million times you Britons should be proud to have people like him amongst your developers. And he just got that little bit cooler just now. The man made some great games, he's got vision and is innovative. And all he gets is sour remarks and the title 'Prince of Lies'. I despise that.

thats becuase we british (and irish as im both) love to see people fail, we re cunts.

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There are *far* worse in the industry for shooting their mouths and not delivering.

As said previously, he's ambitious, passionate and excitable- which is preferable to one for whom a bankable franchise is more important than content.

...Although he did use the word 'cool' a bit too much when I (briefly) met him.

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'Peter Molyneux: The Lionhead Masterbrain' bleurgh.

I'd hardly say a post on a software devs message board is a public apology, if it is - it's about as mild as it can get.

How the hell does growing trees take up 15% of processing? Why not have it that after a years game time, the next loading screen adds 1 inch to the trunks diameter? Having a code that makes it grow 1/365th of an inch every day is just daft.

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The thing with Molyneux is that he breaks all the rules of PR. He promises a lot - and I have no doubt that he would love to deliver what he promises. But the consequence of the inevitable failure of delivering to 100% what he promises is the inevitable backlash and the hating. It's simple PR - the kind of PR that has companies refusing to talk about stuff that is in the early days of R&D. Contrast this with Molyneux who will talk about stuff YEARS before release.

Wow, he broke the "rules of PR", boy is his face red! If only he had stuck to the rules he might of managed to make a loss make Lionhead bankrupt. Yey!

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The thing with Molyneux is that he breaks all the rules of PR.

What rules of PR? His PR is the best you get. He sells a tonne of games on the basis of it alone. To me: that's good PR. Now you notice he's changing tactics. The more you realise he fails to deliver promises, the more suspect we'll get about his future games. And so he's changing his direction to suit the audience. It's clever. He obviously realises that continuing down this path could lead to failure. So far, however, it's worked wonders. This is good PR. I await with interest how he approachs the next Lionhead game.

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How the hell does growing trees take up 15% of processing? Why not have it that after a years game time, the next loading screen adds 1 inch to the trunks diameter? Having a code that makes it grow 1/365th of an inch every day is just daft.

Well, what you're proposing would be so subtle and uninteresting that it would add nothing to the game whatsoever.

To write a "nice" tree growth system - with a good variety of trees and foilage onscreen (so they aren't all just carbon copies of each other), a voxel-space engine to simulate branch growth, and to animate the trees when the wind blows, and to handle collisions for them, and texture and light the tree - it isn't gonna come cheap. Why bother if it isn't essential and it adds nothing to the game? If you can't see the growth in real-time, and it adds nothing to the design, what's the point? And if you make them grow fast enough to watch in real time, they'll grow to their maximum size pretty quickly and you're out of tricks. There's no point at all. Better off just replacing the trees entirely with aged versions of them, on later levels etc.

But hey, I'm sure you know better than PM, the Carters, and all the bright sparks at Lionhead and Big Blue Box right?

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Peter is a great guy, a very nice, friendly chap who is very easy to converse with, especially about videogames. He's great for the industry, we need more like him, and I for one hope he DOESN'T hold back on details (true or not) in future hyperbole. I don't care if features don't make it into the final cut, I enjoy hearing the ideas, the high-level dream. It's always entertaining.

Anyway, he doesn't have anything to apologise for. Fable is really quite good.

Internet weenies, keep your childish insults to yourself.

I agree completely

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Amazing.

It's no wonder he keeps spinning his shit when there are so many gulllible people happy to drink his kool-aid.

The negatives that people are spinning about Fable are mainly due to unfulfilled promises that HE made.

The man is an oaf. The Black & White debacle should have proven that enough. And I won't give him respect for the games he's made in the past while there's that shadow of 'exactly how much credit is he due' hanging over him.

Fuck him. The tit.

R.

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Well, what you're proposing would be so subtle and uninteresting that it would add nothing to the game whatsoever.

:blink: I don't think it's possible to make trees growing interesting tbh.

But hey, I'm sure you know better than PM, the Carters, and all the bright sparks at Lionhead and Big Blue Box right?

Coding wise? Nope, but I have a tendency to do the things I say I will...

It's called being a man.

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Amazing.

It's no wonder he keeps spinning his shit when there are so many gulllible people happy to drink his kool-aid.

The negatives that people are spinning about Fable are mainly due to unfulfilled promises that HE made.

The man is an oaf. The Black & White debacle should have proven that enough. And I won't give him respect for the games he's made in the past while there's that shadow of 'exactly how much credit is he due' hanging over him.

Fuck him. The tit.

R.

My old man used to say that 'You can't get 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag'. Perhaps this is applicable to PM? Making promises that simply would not fit in final release.

I'm loathe to condemn the man even though he did make promises that he couldn't keep to, but some part of me admires his desire to get all these brilliant ideas out in the open. I can imagine that making a game fills you with the same pride and excitement as having a baby: You simply want to tell everyone all about it, and what your hopes and dreams are for it.

So what if he were to have these 'brain purges' in the form of a progress journal? That way he can talk all about his ideas, but keep everyone regularly updated by letting us know what's been dropped and what's been kept as the game progesses? Would that make what's happened with Fable less of a disappointment for everyone had he aired ideas that way?

EDITED - tidied up some of the wording.

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Amazing.

It's no wonder he keeps spinning his shit when there are so many gulllible people happy to drink his kool-aid.

Agreed.

I suppose it must mean he's a great orator, being able to influence the crowd and all.

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