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EddyUK
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On Live I'd class it as cheating.

o/\o

Trouble is that it does sound popular, so short term we'll (well me, at least) will end up being shot and killed a lot. But long term, these mouse users will all find themselves much higher up the ranks, so hopefully because of the level thing - "normal" games for non-cheating players will be assured

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I'll reiterate what I said last night:

"It's cheating"

Simple as that really, anything which gives the user over Xbox Live an unfair advantage should be classed as cheating.

I don't mind people using it for singleplayer experiences (even though they may potentially ruin the experience as they are not playing the game the way it was intended), it just becomes a problem in obline situations. So hopefully M$ will be able to detect the device and disable it or ban user of it.

If M$ don't pick up on this and its becomes a popular device then I hope Currykitten is right; the rankings will filter out the cheaters to a level unobtainable by others. But its hardly ideal is it.

Plus playing a console is about being able to kick back and relax on your sofa/bed, who wants to sit upright at a desk to use a mouse and keyboard.

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Plus playing a console is about being able to kick back and relax on your sofa/bed, who wants to sit upright at a desk to use a mouse and keyboard.

Good point rushy! Have to say i think i would miss the whole rumble experiance as well.

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(even though they may potentially ruin the experience as they are not playing the game the way it was intended), it just becomes a problem in obline situations.  So hopefully M$ will be able to detect the device and disable it or ban user of it.

Its up to the player what sort of device they use to play the game, third party shit pad, keyboard, controller S or big old bad xbox pad - and you could argue that some are better than others all day long, but its not cheating! Banning players for using a different control method than yourself is an impossible idea and I would like to see where it says in the Halo 2 manual "This game may ONLY be played with a controller S".

Actually, it probably does knowing Microsoft :o

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Banning players for using a different control method than yourself is an impossible idea

It's not a different control method, its a whole different control input. From the ground up its different requiring a whole new approach to playing a specific game.

Your right users should be allowed freedom of choice but not if it affects others, and XBL is a controlled environment which could quite easily disable "unsupported devices" if it could detect it.

For example I bought a Force feedback steering wheel for my PS2, but tonnes of games don't work with it, why because it unsupported by the game. Why should Xbox Live have to support a device just because you own it?

"The game will ONLY work with supported devices"

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its a whole different control input.  From the ground up its different requiring a whole new approach to playing a specific game. 

Why should Xbox Live have to support a device just because you own it?

LOL!

Up, down, left, right and fire are the same inputs no matter what the medium!

And how does it affect others? How can it be cheating? I know people who cant use a keyboard and mouse combo for FPS's because it is uncomfortable for them, and also people who hate to use a controller s - its all down to personal choice, not anyone going out of there way to gain an unfair advantage.

Would you accuse a Live Pro Evo player who users a PS2 joypad instead of an xbox joypad of cheating? Is using an optical mouse cheating in Counter Strike? Does an advanced scart cable really give you an advantage in Ghost Recon 2? The Plantronics Headset in Halo 2 etc etc?

Your gaming set up of choice should not be dictated by anyone other than yourself, why should I not be able to use these things just because you don’t get on with them?

Microsoft cannot tell you how to play there games - that’s up to you mate :o

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Mr Freeman, you're wrong.

A mouse is an unfair advantage to other xbox live users, as it gives you a level of precision unobtainable with a joypad.

Agreed.

And having to sit at a desk to play games is not why I bought a console in the first place. I shouldn't have to do so in a ranked system, just to remain competetive with other players, simply because they choose to miss the point of console gaming entirely.

Offline, I don't care. If people want to sit at a desk in the privacy of their own homes while they play Halo 2, well that's up to them.

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LOL!

Up, down, left, right and fire are the same inputs no matter what the medium!

And how does it affect others? How can it be cheating? I know people who cant use a keyboard and mouse combo for FPS's because it is uncomfortable for them, and also people who hate to use a controller s - its all down to personal choice, not anyone going out of there way to gain an unfair advantage.

Would you accuse a Live Pro Evo player who users a PS2 joypad instead of an xbox joypad of cheating? Is using an optical mouse cheating in Counter Strike? Does an advanced scart cable really give you an advantage in Ghost Recon 2? The Plantronics Headset in Halo 2 etc etc?

Your gaming set up of choice should not be dictated by anyone other than yourself, why should I not be able to use these things just because you don’t get on with them?

Microsoft cannot tell you how to play there games - that’s up to you mate <_<

You have totally missed my point...again.

Think of it like this, playing a game like Time crisis or Virtua cop somebody playing with a lighgun with have a massive advantage over someone using a joypad for both acurracy and reaction time. Comparing the same device in your argument is pointless, its merely superficial e.g. joypad vs joypad, mouse vs mouse etc... I'm talking lightgun vs joypad, mouse vs analogue stick which is a totally different ball game as they fundamentally change the way the user interfaces with the title in question.

Consoles and games quite clearly dictate what you can and cannot use to play with them both in the guidelines and instructions manuals. As I said before users should be allowed choice, but not if it affects others.

Starting your argument with a lol in caps didn't really add to your argument btw.

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It's a difficult one this. I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone using an HDTV and 5.1 Dolby Digital to play Halo 2 online, even though using that setup is going to give you a definite advantage over someone just using a 17" TV with bog-standard speakers.

In a way, using a mouse-style controller is similar. It's more serious, as the mouse is a much more accurate control method than the joypad.

It'll be annoying, but there's not much you can do about it.

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LOL!

Up, down, left, right and fire are the same inputs no matter what the medium!

And how does it affect others? How can it be cheating? I know people who cant use a keyboard and mouse combo for FPS's because it is uncomfortable for them, and also people who hate to use a controller s - its all down to personal choice, not anyone going out of there way to gain an unfair advantage.

Would you accuse a Live Pro Evo player who users a PS2 joypad instead of an xbox joypad of cheating? Is using an optical mouse cheating in Counter Strike? Does an advanced scart cable really give you an advantage in Ghost Recon 2? The Plantronics Headset in Halo 2 etc etc?

Your gaming set up of choice should not be dictated by anyone other than yourself, why should I not be able to use these things just because you don’t get on with them?

Microsoft cannot tell you how to play there games - that’s up to you mate <_<

You own one don't you.

And a joypad with a built-in timer to let you know when weapons have respawned.

:D

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You have totally missed my point...again. 

Consoles and games quite clearly dictate what you can and cannot use to play with them both in the guidelines and instructions manuals. 

No I haven’t, I just don’t agree with you - simple really.

And no where in the Halo 2 manual (tin one) does it say that I cannot use a third party control device, and how are you going to know someone is using one against you? Are you going to accuse every good sniper of having this device? I doubt it. Don’t be so negative when people try and put there ten pence into a discussion, you don’t like it, I don’t see the problem - that’s all. I dont even use one of these things anyway, its a lot of money just to connect a mouse! <_< If it really does start "affecting" other players on live then I am sure Bungie will do something about it.

Just for the record I play Halo 2 with a dance mat and never lose :D

Now if Bungie would only fix that stupid blue screen /connection cheat, a much more serious way of affecting Live players than a control device imho.

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Personal choice.......thank you and goodnight

But thinking about that a bit more, it gives me an advantage myself as I prefer the pad, but technically I'm disadvantaging myself as it's less accurate.

It's a tricky one, but they do need to see if it's possible to ban these devices. I'm firmly in the no kb/m camp.

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Its up to the player what sort of device they use to play the game, third party shit pad, keyboard, controller S or big old bad xbox pad - and you could argue that some are better than others all day long, but its not cheating!

I'd agree up to a point. If you're playing single player, you can use whatever devices/cheats you like to beat the game. It's not what the maker intended but it's your game and your system and ultimately your choice. And of course some people feel more suited to joypads than keyboards and have an natural advantage on Xbox because of it. But IMO if you want to play Halo 2 online with a keyboard and mouse ask Bungie if/when it's coming out on PC.

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And no where in the Halo 2 manual (tin one) does it say that I cannot use a third party control device,

It not a question of saying you can't use it, its a case of "this console/game may not work with unsupported devices".

I prefer to play Halo 2 with with Samba Marracas, but only offline :)

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