Website

[SaintM]

Planned features

• A manager profile screen, where the manager can update his email, rllmuk id, team name and password etc.
  
• Results entered into website when logged in. Result to be confirmed by both players before being accepted into the tables/stats calculations
  
• Tables/results/stats etc to be real-time.
  
• Editing of previous results (causes match to be removed from the tables etc until both teams confirm the change).
  
• Summary screen customised for the logged in user showing: Outstanding active matches, next match, previous results, matches that require you to confirm the results etc etc
  
• Extend the stats page to include other.. erm.. stats
  
• Ability to rate your opponents as part of the result entering (details below)
  

Manager rating

When entering your result you also rate your opponent (1-10 or an abstain) on their overall performance. This should be a reflection on how well they played (taking into account the team they are using) and how they conducted themselves off the pitch. (did they respond to PMs? did they take forever to pin down to play? Did they bend over backwards to help get the match arranged?)

This stat will not be on the website and will not be revealed to anyone aside from me!

The top 3 average ratings per league will then be highlighted on the tables with Gold, Silver and Bronze.

At the end of the season the players would then get a 'Rated Gold Manger of the season in League One' style entry on their history page plus there would be an overall highest rated manager across all the leagues.

Does anyone see any obvious gaps here?

[kthxbliz]

Sounds good. It's probably wise to avoid revealing manager ratings to anyone but yourself. It should avoid some friction but might also result in people being more honest or, with some luck, people trying harder in order to achieve a good appraisal.

[SaintM]

Sounds good. It's probably wise to avoid revealing manager ratings to anyone but yourself. It should avoid some friction but might also result in people being more honest or, with some luck, people trying harder in order to achieve a good appraisal.

←

Bingo.

[Dalvado]

Maybe with the arranging matches bit, you could build in a system to arrange matches similar to a PM system. The 'home' manager could send an 'arrangement' PM, and the opponent then could reply with a simple 'agree' or suggest another time. Once both players agree, the game is flagged as agreed. If you send a request, and say the opponent does not reply after so long, then the system could check when the opponent was last active on the PES League site and maybe flag to the Admin that he's late replying. This could resolve the problem on who's active when trying to play matches, as there would be an official system in place to keep track of who's contacting who. Of course if the game is played rather quickly without an arranged time on the site, if the result is in place it would flag the game as arranged anyway.

Thing is that it would take a fair bit of work to implement I guess, it's only a rough idea as I have only just been toying with it. Pick holes to your hearts content everyone.

I'm liking the rest of the ideas SaintM, looking forward to seeing them up on the site!

[kthxbliz]

Easy to do, but it's been discussed in brief a bit earlier.

[SaintM]

Maybe with the arranging matches bit, you could build in a system to arrange matches similar to a PM system. The 'home' manager could send an 'arrangement' PM, and the opponent then could reply with a simple 'agree' or suggest another time. Once both players agree, the game is flagged as agreed. If you send a request, and say the opponent does not reply after so long, then the system could check when the opponent was last active on the PES League site and maybe flag to the Admin that he's late replying. This could resolve the problem on who's active when trying to play matches, as there would be an official system in place to keep track of who's contacting who. Of course if the game is played rather quickly without an arranged time on the site, if the result is in place it would flag the game as arranged anyway.

Thing is that it would take a fair bit of work to implement I guess, it's only a rough idea as I have only just been toying with it. Pick holes to your hearts content everyone. 

I'm liking the rest of the ideas SaintM, looking forward to seeing them up on the site!

←

Top idea, Its got potential mate.

So to specify a bit more, does this sound like the sort of thing?:

Against each unplayed fixture there is a 'arrange match' button.

It takes the user to a web form where they enter the times/dates they want to play the match. The details are then stored (linked to the fixture) and an email sent to the opponent telling them that they have a match arrangement request, viewable on the site.

The opponent, on his next visit to the site, can then view those arrangements and, via a webform, respond. If they can make one of the times originally proposed they enter 'Yes'. If they cannot then they enter 'No'. Either way, they give details (if Yes they need to specify which of the proposed times they want to do, if no then they need to propose alternative times). That info is saved, linked to the fixture and the other person informed they have a response.

This then bounces back and forth until they both agree a date/time (storing each message to give a clear 'paper trail').

If the match drags on over the 14 day limit then the admin would have clear info as to who made most effort to play the match to aid any forfeit decisions.

If it was made a rule that only arrangement details entered via the site would be considered when deciding on the late results, then it would work if it was implemented in tandem with the following bits:

• An 'im unavailable until xx/xx/xxxx' function for the manager to set on his account, and
  
• Matches are disabled once they hit the 14 day limit, with only an admin able to enter a result (unless the date falls within the previous manager unavailability date, in which case it would stay active).
  

Thoughts?

EDIT: as ptwizzy noted, we are keen to avoid replicating too much of what the forum currently does (as rllmuk has been very accomodating and is the home of the league), but with the biggest problem in the league being getting some people to actually play matches, i'm happy to try and get the website to make arrangements more 'official'.

[Digimortal]

Top idea Dalvado, and sounds like it could really work.

It's often hard as a LO to know when people are actually arranging and when they havn't even spoken (Often it's because they use PM only).

The new system would display clearly when the match is arranged and when people simply aren't making the effort (Which has never been the case with my league, top bunch )

[SaintM]

I'm going to start proper design work on this shortly (I need something to keep my mind busy at the mo!) so will be looking for people to help.

I'm developing locally at the mo, but will get some hosting sorted out in the next week or so to allow some initial testing of the security etc.

If anyone wants to help then gimmie a shout. It's not definate of course, but Jane is not in labour yet so I may as well use what time I have constructively instead of biting my nails!

[Dalvado]

Top idea, Its got potential mate.

So to specify a bit more, does this sound like the sort of thing?:

Against each unplayed fixture there is a 'arrange match' button.

It takes the user to a web form where they enter the times/dates they want to play the match. The details are then stored (linked to the fixture) and an email sent to the opponent telling them that they have a match arrangement request, viewable on the site.

The opponent, on his next visit to the site, can then view those arrangements and, via a webform, respond. If they can make one of the times originally proposed they enter 'Yes'. If they cannot then they enter 'No'. Either way, they give details (if Yes they need to specify which of the proposed times they want to do, if no then they need to propose alternative times). That info is saved, linked to the fixture and the other person informed they have a response.

This then bounces back and forth until they both agree a date/time (storing each message to give a clear 'paper trail').

If the match drags on over the 14 day limit then the admin would have clear info as to who made most effort to play the match to aid any forfeit decisions.

If it was made a rule that only arrangement details entered via the site would be considered when deciding on the late results, then it would work if it was implemented in tandem with the following bits:

• An 'im unavailable until xx/xx/xxxx' function for the manager to set on his account, and
  
• Matches are disabled once they hit the 14 day limit, with only an admin able to enter a result (unless the date falls within the previous manager unavailability date, in which case it would stay active).
  

Thoughts?

EDIT: as ptwizzy noted, we are keen to avoid replicating too much of what the forum currently does (as rllmuk has been very accomodating and is the home of the league), but with the biggest problem in the league being getting some people to actually play matches, i'm happy to try and get the website to make arrangements more 'official'.

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That's bang on what I was thinking, just as I went to bed the unavailable feature dawned on me as something I missed out too.

I agree that we shouldn't take too much away from rllmuk forum, I was just suggesting something that would be easier for LOs and you SaintM when it comes to resolving who is contacting who for match arrangments, as Digimortal was also saying. At the moment we have to prresume people are PMing each other, if they are not responding in the dressing room. Also we have to check individual profiles for last active dates as another measure to check who still visits the forum, which may or may not be reliable.

If the match arrangment was in one place and reminders could be sent, then it would hopefully stop people from forgetting to check the dressing room if they are reading a lot of the forum. It's one of the reasons I may have missed the idea being discussed before on this thread, as I forget to read some threads myself if I have a lot to read on here.

[SaintM]

I've to look at what the website can do to make the LO job easier yet.

I expect the LO job it to be a shadow of it's current self, seeing as result reporting would be automatic.

Of course if you have a league full 'o' probs like league one was during mid-season, then there must be ways the system can help.

Any LOs/ex-LOs/future-LOs have any thoughts on how the website can help you manage a league?

[Digimortal]

How about you put all our matches down as 5-0 wins, then we'll have more time to help others

More seriously though, the system already explained would be perfect, with that, and the new results imputting straight into the website system, I can't think of anything else that we could possibly need.

[SaintM]

In case anyone is interested I will post updates here as I work on the site, blog stylee.

10th August

I've setup a laptop with ISS and am using that as a host for the time being.

My 1st real work on it so far has been to create an access database with a simple table in it called TEST with the fields: UserID, Email and PasswordMD5.

I then created a simple asp page with a couple of functions (SavePassword and CheckPassword) to check that I could UPDATE and SELECT from the tables without passing a 'bare' password.

(I also am using a free MD5 encrption function from http://www.frez.co.uk)

Private Function SavePassword (strEmail, strPassword)

Dim rstSavePassword
Set rstSavePassword = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.recordset")
rstSavePassword.Open ("UPDATE TEST SET PasswordMD5 = '" & strPassword & "' WHERE Email = '" & strEmail & "'"),conn,adOpenForwardOnly,adLockOptimistic 

End Function

Private Function CheckPassword (strEmail, strPassword)

Dim rstCheckPassword
Set rstCheckPassword = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.recordset")
rstCheckPassword.Open ("SELECT '1' FROM TEST WHERE EMAIL= '" & strEmail & "' AND PasswordMD5 = '" & strPassword & "'"),conn,adOpenForwardOnly,adLockReadOnly 

If rstCheckPassword.EOF then
	CheckPassword = "No"
Else
	CheckPassword = "Yes"
End if
End Function

I then call these functions, passing over an email address and an MD5'd password

SavePassword "fake.email@address", md5("FakePassword")
Response.write CheckPassword ("fake.email@address", md5("FakePassword"))

The screen then outputs a 'YES' if the password matches, or 'NO' if it doesn't.

A small step, but I'd not used encryption of this nature before so I was quite happy that it works. The table now has 'aab9c389ac37952010052d5deb62b813' instead of 'FakePassword' saved as the password so is quite secure. Overkill for what this application is for, but always good to practice security!

My next steps are to get the table designs sorted out, which will be a quite long and boring process, hence me doing an encryption test first!

If anyone spots flaws in my code or logic then please pipe up! I learnt ASP from a book after all

[Chris303]

This may have already been suggested, but I think sendings off should effect the next game(s). When fixture part of the website is fully automated, it should be pretty easy to slide in sendings off feature, whereby any sendings off would be entered at the same time as putting in the result.

Someone could be 2 - 1 up with seconds to go when the opponent goes through on goal. Bringing the player down would be so easy (I wouldn't do it personally) and that challenge should effect other games. It's so to select another player before the games begin isn't it? Somewhere on the fixture page it should say if any players aren't eligible. Maybe it'll make people think twice about making the challenge.

I reckon a red card should put the player out for the rest of the fixture (home and away) and the next fixture too (home and away). Give it more of a continuous league feel where you have to think about your next match.

And I reckon the responsibility to check if someone is playing should be with the players, if the opponent isn't on the ball and hasn't noticed a banned player is in the squad that's his fault, no winging after the game was played. You wait until your opponents ready light is flashing before you quickly check the squad and click ready.

[SaintM]

This may have already been suggested, but I think sendings off should effect the next game(s). When fixture part of the website is fully automated, it should be pretty easy to slide in sendings off feature, whereby any sendings off would be entered at the same time as putting in the result.

Someone could be 2 - 1 up with seconds to go when the opponent goes through on goal. Bringing the player down would be so easy (I wouldn't do it personally) and that challenge should effect other games. It's so to select another player before the games begin isn't it? Somewhere on the fixture page it should say if any players aren't eligible. Maybe it'll make people think twice about making the challenge.

I reckon a red card should put the player out for the rest of the fixture (home and away) and the next fixture too (home and away). Give it more of a continuous league feel where you have to think about your next match.

And I reckon the responsibility to check if someone is playing should be with the players, if the opponent isn't on the ball and hasn't noticed a banned player is in the squad that's his fault, no winging after the game was played. You wait until your opponents ready light is flashing before you quickly check the squad and click ready.

←

That won't work for the same reason that goal scorers won't work and then some. Far too much chance of it being missed to be bothered with I'm afraid.

[Chris303]

Nobody likes me

[SaintM]

Nobody likes me

←

They wouldn't like me either if I forced them to record red cards and then change teams according to who got sent off a week ago

[SaintM]

I've done some work on the design document, just to set out what the website will actually do. I've scaled back the plans a bit to avoid it becoming too unrealistic, but there is still plenty in there.

Please take a look and gimmie some feedback on how it sounds!

You can view it at http://www.saintm.nildram.co.uk/docs/websitedesign.html

Cheers,

Mike

[SaintM]

Whilst waiting for the torrent of feedback to arrive for the design document (http://www.saintm.nildram.co.uk/docs/websitedesign.html) I decided to do a little more messing about.

I've initiated the order for webspace (and new domain) and have also written the security system for the site. I've tested it and it seems to work, but once I have the details from the hosting company I will upload it.

So to that end I need testers!

Please send me a PM if you want to help test, its not a huge amount of stuff to do but having extra sets of eyes and clicking fingers is always good to ensure problems are sniffed out before they do any damage.

[SaintM]

13th August

Two fine upstanding gents have stepped up to the plate and offered to help with testing, thanks ptwizzy and goldbricker!

I hope to have the webspace sorted at the start of next week, just waiting on the email from the hosting peeps then I can get started proper.

I've got a few dummy pages setup to test the security of the site so once uploaded. a good test of that should help as I can start to implement it into my local development site.

Speaking of which, I now have the front page and the hall of fame grabbing data from the database. That should help when I eventually plan for the admin side of things as I can just have a page to add new data into the database, instead of having to edit the pages direct.

I've not put the rules into the database as they hardly ever change, so it seemed wastful for them to be grabbed each time someone looked at it.

real-time tables

I've had a think about how to cope with the tables etc being real time. A problem would be that to generate the tables means checking each fixture and calculating a teams points etc, then doing that for each of the other teams in the league. Then do the same for form etc. Not a very nice way of doing it, so I have a cunning plan...

Whenever both teams for an active fixture confirm the result (so it becomes active) then that will trigger the code to generate the tables for his league and his form and dump the results into two tables (called.. Tables and Form).

Then when people view those pages, the data comes from the table and no long winded calculations are needed every time they do so.

It's pretty much how the current off-line database used to keep track of the league works.

The only problem i need to overcome about doing it that way is when results are entered and confirmed before they are due. So say i play my final week's matches in week 2, i need some way of trapping when those fixtures become active and call the update code accordingly. As I am using an access backend, proper scheduling isn't an option.

A way to emulate that would be to store the date/time when the code was last called for a league in a RefValues table. Then a standard check on the 'live' pages would be triggered to do the following:

(Date1): Grab the most recent date/time from the [Weeks] table where it is on or before the current server date/time. 
// the weeks table will have all the fixture week dates with a time of 00:00//

(Date2): Grab the oldest date/time from the [RefValues] table
// this will tell me when the oldest update to a league table was //

Compare them.

If Date1 is after Date 2 then run the update tables/form code.
// as a new fixture date has become active and the league tables may not show the fixtures that were played in advance.

Else do nothing
// as the tables have been updated since the fixture week became active, so they will be updated as normal when fixtures are confirmed //

I think that logic should be quite sound, but please have a read and let me know if i've missed something!

[SaintM]

Add yawdib to the list of testers

I've given up trying to radically redesigning the tables in the database. I think the tables I currently use are pretty sorted as it is. I'll just have to add some fields to store the fixtures confirmed status and it should be good to go.

After a bit of a delay with trying to get an elegant solution to the league summary page (getting a list of current league leaders) i've resorted to a clunky, but working method instead. Which is basically what I was doing offline anyway!

Hopefully hosting will be sorted by tomorrow night and I can then get the security pages up there for test.

I'm pouring quite a bit of time into this at the mo as I *may* be able to get it sorted for season 5 if the missus does not 'pop' in the next week. Not that I need to keep my mind busy to avoid running around shouting 'i'm gonna be a dad! oh my god what am I going to do!' or anything.. oh no.

Edit: oh, and if someone could take a look at my previous post and just confirm the logic of the last bit, that would be good!

[dan_tm]

I wouldn't mind if the new season was delayed by a week or two if that means we can get the new system in place ready for season 5. I'm sure most people would feel the same, but ultimately it's your decision

[SaintM]

I wouldn't mind if the new season was delayed by a week or two if that means we can get the new system in place ready for season 5. I'm sure most people would feel the same, but ultimately it's your decision

←

It's possible.. depends more on nature than anything else though!

[SaintM]

16th August

I've sorted out hosting now and some security pages have been released for testing, hopefully they will be sound and I can put that side of it to bed.

I've been working on recreating the current site locally and making each of the pages use 'live' data instead of the static HTML. i'll aim to be able to release those for testing by the end of the week.

From then on I can start work on making them 'interactive' and start designing the new pages.

Its a race against the clock!

Edit: themomentbefore has also offered to help test, so I think thats enough testers for now. Cheers chaps

[SaintM]

17th August

I've now completed the 1st build of the non-interactive elements of the new site.

To peoples' eyes it will look the same as the current site, but the major difference is that each page is served from a database, rather than being static html.

This is quite a step forward for getting things ready for season 5 as it means that if I cannot get the complete site finished before the start of the season, I can use this as a 'plateau' and release it as it is and just add on the interactive bits later on.

It will be ready to test later on in the week, once the security system is put through it's paces.

[SaintM]

21st August

The halfway house website is now live @ http://www.rllmukproevo.co.uk/

[SaintM]

Just in case anyone was wondering what has happened to the website.. I don't know :/

I cannot access it, or in fact access most of the hosting company's website.

Edit:

Well the site is back up now, was down for around 14 hours in all.. i'm trying to find out what the problem was, as it does not fill me with confidence that the hosting company's website is so shoddy!

[Robbo]

Website request:

On a manager's page (i.e. http://www.rllmukproevo.co.uk/managerpage.asp?userid=63 for me), how about making the "rllmuk username: NAME" into a link to the user's forum profile page?

It would make it easier to find people's MSN address etc.

Just a thought,

Robbo

[kthxbliz]

Website request:

On a manager's page (i.e. http://www.rllmukproevo.co.uk/managerpage.asp?userid=63 for me), how about making the "rllmuk username: NAME" into a link to the user's forum profile page?

It would make it easier to find people's MSN address etc.

Just a thought,

Robbo

←

Good call.

[SaintM]

Website request:

On a manager's page (i.e. http://www.rllmukproevo.co.uk/managerpage.asp?userid=63 for me), how about making the "rllmuk username: NAME" into a link to the user's forum profile page?

It would make it easier to find people's MSN address etc.

Just a thought,

Robbo

←

Done!

[Digimortal]

Done!

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Great service *claps*