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So How Do Treasure Do It?


squirtle
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No, really, how do they do it?

I got Gradius V today. Fuck me, but it's ace, isn't it. No question there, just a statement. It's ace. And so how do Treasure do it?

I'm not a shmup fan, really. 2D to me is ok, but I like 3D with all it's textures and sparklyness. And yet...

Bangai-Oh!, Ikaruga and now Gradius V. They're all just fucking ace. I'm shit at all of them. I don't have the hand to eye co-orodination to last at them, but I just love playing them. How do Treasure do it? I've played other shmups, and theyve kind of left me cold, but Treasure's (even going back to Gunstar Heroes which I play on the Megadrive emulator on the Xbox) stuff is just brilliant. And I can't figure out why.

Yet it is.

So hats off to them. They're acers really. A real one off in the modern world of gaming. And good luck to them, I say.

That is all.

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In all fairness - GV is just a reworking of a simple gaming concept. Its chock full of graphical detail and simple plays on physics, which many games do.

Your right about the other too though..

I find RS, or RS II far more innovative, even if they are just plays on weapon systems.

They also contain muchos charactor detail and most importently, very finely tuned gameplay.

Treasure are like Nintendo like that. They'll look at the movement of a 2D sprite and say, that has no intertia, or after pad movement. Then they invest in a certain graphical style that fits that game, and that game only.

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Project X was very hard, like many Team 17 games. Lovely to look at, but just too hard IMO and unfairly so.

IMO they cannot get it right on the PC either. For some reason, PC shmups (well, the homebrew ones) just can't seem to emulate their console/arcade roots. You get energy bars on many PC shmups which just don't work properly because hald the time you can't tell you've been hit. Obviosuly theres some exceptions but it just frustrates me that homebrewers get everything right until it comes to gameplay balance. Then it falls apart.

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Project X was very hard, like many Team 17 games. Lovely to look at, but just too hard IMO and unfairly so.

IMO they cannot get it right on the PC either. For some reason, PC shmups (well, the homebrew ones) just can't seem to emulate their console/arcade roots. You get energy bars on many PC shmups which just don't work properly because hald the time you can't tell you've been hit. Obviosuly theres some exceptions but it just frustrates me that homebrewers get everything right until it comes to gameplay balance. Then it falls apart.

I suppose it just goes to show that putting together a seemingly simple game design is more complex than it first appears.

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I agree about Gradius V being brilliant.

Treasure seem to have pulled off the trick of making it both instantly playble and fun - when you first switch it on, you can enjoy the lovely lovely graphics, the swift powerup system, lots of gigantic laser death. The first two levels are relatively easy, then it gets much much harder. Which to me seems like the perfect difficulty curve (for a shmup).

Probably the same thing applies to Ikaruga. Anyone's gran can enjoy the first couple of levels by just blasting their way through them. But when you start to try chaining, and learning the patterns, and specifically getting past that level 3 boss without using 8 continues ( :( ), you're definitely in 'hardcore' territory.

So, universal appeal.

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I suppose it just goes to show that putting together a seemingly simple game design is more complex than it first appears

I do agree, but, a gamer (which many of these Homebrew programmers are) know when a game feels good, and so should they.

Thats why i'm baffled.

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Gradius V hammers me after level 4 but I never get pissed off with it. I know I just need practise - it never unfairly 'cheats' me or simply throws an inhuman amount of stuff at me. The first time I played Ikaruga I thought level 2 was the most insane thing I'd ever seen. Now it's a breeze.

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Does anyone think the control in Bangio could be better?

It feels odd at first play. You DO get used to it, but its all that Dpad pushing that can get uncomfy

Like Alien Soldier, Treasure do sometimes makes games frustratingly hard to control, for the sheer sake of it.

In the above example, theres no need to make the controls they way they have.

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No, really, how do they do it?

I got Gradius V today. Fuck me, but it's ace, isn't it. No question there, just a statement. It's ace. And so how do Treasure do it?

I'm not a shmup fan, really. 2D to me is ok, but I like 3D with all it's textures and sparklyness. And yet...

Bangai-Oh!, Ikaruga and now Gradius V. They're all just fucking ace. I'm shit at all of them. I don't have the hand to eye co-orodination to last at them, but I just love playing them. How do Treasure do it? I've played other shmups, and theyve kind of left me cold, but Treasure's (even going back to Gunstar Heroes which I play on the Megadrive emulator on the Xbox) stuff is just brilliant. And I can't figure out why.

Yet it is.

So hats off to them. They're acers really. A real one off in the modern world of gaming. And good luck to them, I say.

That is all.

make it even more ace and play it in progressive scan and it will look like this

http://www.gamershell.com/ps2/gradius_v/sc...shots.html?id=3

big difference.

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I havent played Alien Soldier but with that control setup in Bangaio I cant really see how it could be any better.

Having said that the DC pad is pretty shite which doesnt help the situation.

Bangaio controls like Super Smash TV on the SNES.

(You edited your post and yeah I agree there arent a lot of places for rest. That is part of the charm of the game although I can see your point)

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