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FishyFish
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What I really liked about this episode is that Whittaker finally got the time and space to be The Doctor and she was great at it! In the previous series's I felt that she was somewhat relegated to an equal member of an ensemble cast, and breakneck pace of the first three episodes of Flux didn't give her time to do much more than react to events.

 

Here she really got a rare chance to bring that mixture of compassion, playfulness, wisdom and resolve that you associate with the character.

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4 hours ago, loathsomeleopard said:

There's still a lot that will hinge on those last two episodes, but I did enjoy that. Expanded thoughts here.

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

Spoiler

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

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1 hour ago, c-cat114 said:

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

  Hide contents

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

The train landing kind of works thanks to the Doctor Who hand wavey just regenerated so sort of invincible thing. If Ten can grow himself a new hand then Thirteen could probably survive a fall.

 

But yes, Flux really needs a good payoff or it will all feel really unsatisfying. It can't just keep asking questions forever.

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Regarding payoff (after 2 episodes in)

 

Spoiler

It's obviously not all the story is this going to be an origin for the weeping angels?

They can now make more Angels, we've seen the Mouri/Temple of Antorus etc as potential origins.

 

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20 hours ago, Mogster said:

The train landing kind of works thanks to the Doctor Who hand wavey just regenerated so sort of invincible thing. If Ten can grow himself a new hand then Thirteen could probably survive a fall.

 

But yes, Flux really needs a good payoff or it will all feel really unsatisfying. It can't just keep asking questions forever.

 

It's that old-school 90s arcade beat-em-up thing where you lose a life and your character flashes for a couple of seconds when they come back on screen to show they're temporarily invincible. 

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22 hours ago, c-cat114 said:

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

 

Or oh nows the Nexus from Star Trel generations is rushing towards us and it destroys things at a subatomic level (or just knocks some building over a bit - depends on the planet)  and the Tardis doors won't shut... lol we survived that and are in the Crimean War for some reason.

 

The current fan theory du jour is that inspid spaceman and spacewoman's baby is going to be the Doctor who has magic regeneration powers for Flux related REASONS and then gets sent back in time to be found by the not yet-Time Lords in a loop. It sounds horribly plausible and the sort of thing Chibnall might do.

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On 22/11/2021 at 13:41, c-cat114 said:

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

  Hide contents

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

 

Im still waiting for an explanation from Flux 1 where the Flux engulfs the TARDIS….and they end up in the Crimea.

 

18 hours ago, Harsin said:

 

Or oh nows the Nexus from Star Trel generations is rushing towards us and it destroys things at a subatomic level (or just knocks some building over a bit - depends on the planet)  and the Tardis doors won't shut... lol we survived that and are in the Crimean War for some reason.

 

The current fan theory du jour is that inspid spaceman and spacewoman's baby is going to be the Doctor who has magic regeneration powers for Flux related REASONS and then gets sent back in time to be found by the not yet-Time Lords in a loop. It sounds horribly plausible and the sort of thing Chibnall might do.

 

I caught up tonight while not able to sleep and came to ask about that idea. The central ‘theme’ of this seems to be Space vs Time. With each getting broken at different points (although sometimes the flux just hurts bits of space rather than unravel it)

 

A child born in ‘broken’ time could be ‘Timeless’

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On 22/11/2021 at 13:41, c-cat114 said:

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it.

 

The serialisation does it a lot of favours, I think. It lifts the weaker parts by at least suggesting they are a part of something bigger.

 

The frustrating thing about Chibnall's era is that he's had some really great moments. His version of The Master was great (and had a superb reveal). Tim Shaw was a cracking joke and a genuinely creepy new alien design. The historicals (Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, the Tesla one) were good. Fugitive of the Judoon is a modern classic.

 

But it's always been weighed down by loads and loads of shit. One good episode followed by three or four utterly uninspired standalone episodes with CBeebies production values and no idea of how to write the Doctor as a character.

 

Flux - being relatively short, and absolutely crammed with stuff - is bouncing from good bit to good bit so fast that you don't have time to really notice that maybe the connective tissue isn't as good as it should be. Even when it doesn't make sense, it promises the possibility of it all meaning something more.

 

It's all going to depend on how they stick the landing. If it's satisfyingly done, this will go down as one of the best Who seasons of recent years. If they fuck it up, it'll make everything we've watched so far seem pointless in retrospect.

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9 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

It's all going to depend on how they stick the landing. If it's satisfyingly done, this will go down as one of the best Who seasons of recent years. If they fuck it up, it'll make everything we've watched so far seem pointless in retrospect.

 

This is my worry too, especially as it's all inevitably heading towards a big reset button to give RTD a nice clean slate to work with.

 

I thought this week's was excellent though, with lots of properly good wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff. The boundary between the two time zones and the conversations across it were particularly good. And I liked the way it actually developed the angels, in a way that fits with all their previous appearances:

 

Spoiler

Every time we've seen them before, they've been after the Doctor, for the same reason they are now, but they've never managed it. Until now!

 

I still think Ol' Crystal Bonce and Mrs Swarovski Head are a bit rubbish though. And this week's episode had a noticeable lack of Alien Dog Bloke.

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3 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

This is my worry too, especially as it's all inevitably heading towards a big reset button to give RTD a nice clean slate to work with.

 

I thought this week's was excellent though, with lots of properly good wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff. The boundary between the two time zones and the conversations across it were particularly good. And I liked the way it actually developed the angels, in a way that fits with all their previous appearances:

 

  Hide contents

Every time we've seen them before, they've been after the Doctor, for the same reason they are now, but they've never managed it. Until now!

 

I still think Ol' Crystal Bonce and Mrs Swarovski Head are a bit rubbish though. And this week's episode had a noticeable lack of Alien Dog Bloke.

Spoiler

Why were there two time zones?

why was there a rift?

 

 

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Given the preview promotional shot for the new year special there may be some elements of Flux carrying forward into at least one more special (And I suspect the final two also.

 

At this point I'm expecting all this stuff with the Division to reach a peak in the final special next year. Given it's going to be a regeneration episode they're going to want to max out the stakes.

 

Edit* Also I'm absolutely loving Swarm. (Azure far less so). He's strutting around the place camp as hell and chewing the scenery like a universe ending Disney villain and I love it. I kinda wish he could just be a Master replacement but sadly I think they started him out a bit too high stakes for that.

 

Spoiler thoughts for The Passenger

Spoiler

Proto-Tardis?

 

Apparently RTD is keen on introducing more Doctor Who Spinoffs. Here's hoping for a Jo Martin side series. Even if it's just a limited run because she's fucking excellent.

 

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Just now, Flub said:

Given the preview promotional shot for the new year special there may be some elements of Flux carrying forward into at least one more special (And I suspect the final two also.

 

At this point I'm expecting all this stuff with the Division to reach a peak in the final special next year. Given it's going to be a regeneration episode they're going to want to max out the stakes.

 

Oh, I didn't even realise there were any specials coming up. I though it was two more episodes of this series then over to RTD.

 

My point still stands though, this is all going to end with a big reset which means future writers can ignore it completely if they so wish.

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4 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

Oh, I didn't even realise there were any specials coming up. I though it was two more episodes of this series then over to RTD.

 

My point still stands though, this is all going to end with a big reset which means future writers can ignore it completely if they so wish.

 

New Year special, one special at some point next year and then a final new year special. I suppose the final episode could be unrelated but I do think the Division isn't going to wrap up until next year even though Swarm will be beaten in two episodes.

 

Also I agree with you Darren. Chibs is going to put the toys back in the box for RTD to do what he wants with. At least up to a point. I don't know if the Timeless Child stuff is going to stick but it's possible it might not play out the way we currently think it does (Ruth runs from the Division, gets caught and mind wiped.) There's a distinct possibility of another twist.

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7 minutes ago, Flub said:

There's a distinct possibility of another twist.

 

INT TARDIS.

 

THE DOCTOR (David Tennant) SITS UP SUDDENLY. HE LOOKS CONFUSED.

 

DOCTOR: Well, that was different. I've never dreamt I was a woman before.

 

ENDING CREDITS.

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I'm really enjoying Flux - and I was that disappointed with Chibnall's era that I didn't even know it was starting when the first episode was on.  

 

Plenty of interesting science fiction, some good ideas, some great effects, some excellent new characters - this is what I have been hoping for from the show for a long time now.

 

I was starting to think the most recent episode was a bit dull, but the extra depths given to the angels won me round in the end.  

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47 minutes ago, Flub said:

Given the preview promotional shot for the new year special there may be some elements of Flux carrying forward into at least one more special (And I suspect the final two also.

 

At this point I'm expecting all this stuff with the Division to reach a peak in the final special next year. Given it's going to be a regeneration episode they're going to want to max out the stakes.

 

Edit* Also I'm absolutely loving Swarm. (Azure far less so). He's strutting around the place camp as hell and chewing the scenery like a universe ending Disney villain and I love it. I kinda wish he could just be a Master replacement but sadly I think they started him out a bit too high stakes for that.

 

Spoiler thoughts for The Passenger

  Hide contents

Proto-Tardis?

 

Apparently RTD is keen on introducing more Doctor Who Spinoffs. Here's hoping for a Jo Martin side series. Even if it's just a limited run because she's fucking excellent.

 

Paul McGann first if you’re talking mini series.  Thing is would that not confuse the general public on who the current one is?

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1 minute ago, davidcotton said:

Paul McGann first if you’re talking mini series.  Thing is would that not confuse the general public on who the current one is?

 

I don't expect for a moment that we'd get a side series with a different Doctor but if it was possible to have one I'd prefer the Ruth doctor since we know so little about her and to be fair to McGann he's been very, very, very well served by Big Finish.

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1 hour ago, Flub said:

 

I don't expect for a moment that we'd get a side series with a different Doctor but if it was possible to have one I'd prefer the Ruth doctor since we know so little about her and to be fair to McGann he's been very, very, very well served by Big Finish.

He has indeed, and it would probably be a bit of a risk when so many people won't have any connection to his Doctor. If RTD does more spin-offs they'll probably based on stuff he'll introduce in his new Who run.

 

Speaking of McGann's Big Finish stuff though, I've been loving Stranded so far. It kicks off with Eight being, well, stranded on Earth and finding he's somehow become the landlord of the flats that used to be his Baker St. house. I didn't have high hopes, as it combined a "stuck on Earth" story with a much bigger cast than normal, thanks to the tenants, and I think Chibnall's run has shown that Who doesn't work so well with an extended cast. It's been brilliant though, and among other things it's had a few appearances from Tom Baker reprising his "Curator" role.

 

Big Finish are just great at the moment. I'm most of the way through Dalek Universe 3, which is just as good as the first two and David Tenant remains amazing at playing his Doctor in audio form. Ecclestone's third boxset has just come out too, which should be a treat.

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On 04/07/2021 at 19:06, cassidy said:

Not sure if anyone is interested but if you want to see a bloody well put together history of dr who this guys series on YouTube is excellent.  He knows his stuff and it’s very well researched. I have now watched the parts  from Tom up to Eccles and I’m impressed. And will go back to the beginning.  
 

 

I've been watching this myself over the last few days, and it's been absolutely superb. I've just got Tennant's episode to go now, at least until we presumably get a Capaldi one at some point.

 

I can't imagine a better documentary getting made covering the show's history in such detail, with every episode being really well researched and delivered with such good narration.

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On 24/11/2021 at 11:08, davidcotton said:

Paul McGann first if you’re talking mini series.  Thing is would that not confuse the general public on who the current one is?

Sigh. I still maintain if they'd gone for a two series current, one series previous Dr, structure leading to a fifth or sixth series combination it would have kept some of the current actors in role as they'd get time off the treadmill. 

 

I think it'd only be confusing for a little bit and there could be a fair bit of lead in with webisodes, Radio Times comic strips etc. 

 

I'd even love to see a series from the pov of one of the antagonists. Am entire series of Missy setting something up and then realising she's been played and going after the Daleks or something would have been fab. 

 

Hey ho. 

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4 minutes ago, c-cat114 said:

I'd even love to see a series from the pov of one of the antagonists. Am entire series of Missy setting something up and then realising she's been played and going after the Daleks or something would have been fab. 

As ever... ;)

 

large.jpg.f08b9fd1c3b386cc040533a0c5d8e3e3.jpg

 

I haven't listened to the Missy stuff yet mind, although the War Master audios were brilliant.

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On 24/11/2021 at 09:46, Garwoofoo said:

 going to depend on how they stick the landing. If it's satisfyingly done, this will go down as one of the best Who seasons of recent years. If they fuck it up, it'll make everything we've watched so far seem pointless in retrospect.

 

It's Chibnall. 

 

I feel 99% secure in guessing the final ep will have 72 generally ok sci Fi ideas thrown at a wall, will make a frenetic fever dream look drowsy, will answer 6 of the 22 questions it poses, contain one huge series swivelling idea that angers 52% of the audience (current guess is that Dan's a passenger containing Gallifrey for hand wavey reasons), will redo things done before and done far better and will be one more tick of the clock until, hopefully, better things happen. But it'll end on a cliffhanger that sets up the specials and the cliffhanger will be resolved in a terrible way. 

 

(That said tbh I've pretty low expectations of RTD refresh if honest but not Chibnall low).

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