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FishyFish
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It's not boring and I'm still interested to see where things are going, but it was another Chibnall episode where the big secret is just exposited to the Doctor for half an hour. I can't say I'm actually emotionally involved in anything going on, which I really should be by now. I finished the Tennant episode of that YouTube documentary yesterday, and there there were single scenes in that brought back everything I felt back when they aired, and I really hope RTD can return some of that humanity to the show.

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Oh god I just read a theory that says this entire season is going to end up being Chibnall's elaborate fanwank for why the third Doctor had a snake tattoo (because John Pertwee had one and they didn't cover it) and it’s going to be true isn't it.

 

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It's just nonsense. It actively completely kills any audience engagement. It's all just irrelevant and meaningless. Why should you care about any of it? With elements given great importance and then dropped immediately. Powered by hope if you say things loud enough and keep introducing new characters/aspect people will just go with the momentum.

 

Spoiler

Last week the Doctor became an Angel....but it doesn't matter and is undone in 2 minutes. It's just to transport her...somehow.

 

Dan/Yaz are trapped in a shrinking safe village in out of space....oh no they're not. They were let go (but there were no survivors in the village? but these 4 did and no one noticed) and the village put back because....reason (Angels are cruel maybe?)

 

Now the 3 of them travel the world (funded how? apart from when Dan has to be a stowaway) to look for the date the world ends (which is there for some reason) based on an previously unknown message from the doctor. Because if they find the date...they can...save the world? (Even though the date is likely 100 years in the future?)

 

Division is all reaching all powerful with agents everywhere from every species. But no one knows anything about them or ever finds any evidence. (A common problem with secret societies but when Tetcuen is extolling their power/reach it makes it ever more silly)

 

Oh it's going to be another episode with the villain talking to the Doctor and explaining the plot for 30 minutes.

 

Vin follows the missing (which are now a thing even though the entire universe is fucked)....to where the Ravages are eating them. Why go through the putting in passengers as salvation to move them to take them out to put them somewhere else to eat? Oh Vins in the passengers now. As is Diana. Who the Ravagers took for some reason, but haven't eaten for some reason.

Kavinasta can see the writing 100 years ago how? But then he doesn't have time travel...

 

Oh it's a fob watch because of course it is...oh wait the memories were in the Angel for some reason, but are now in the fob watch. Oh and the Flux will make Earth the last point of the universe. Great we're special.


So the Grand Serpent can now travel in time, and wants to get earth destroyed. And no one notices this unaging murderer in ranks for 50 years....oh although he might have one or two followers to help him destroy the world who have prominent serpent tattoos.

 

The Ravagers have been killing people to build a Psycho-Temporal Bridge to get to the Doctor. Because of course they did. Because they knew she'd get to Division. Even though they'd tried to kill her multiple times before.

 

Oh Division let the Ravager out (Still don't know how/why the other one lived on earth or what the signal/alarm was about)....Why? The Flux was already destroying the universe for them? 

 

And now the Sontarans are here to attack again - across Earth's timeline. After just attacking across earth's timeline and being forced back a few weeks/days ago in the story's timeline.

 

.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hexx said:

 

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Kavinasta can see the writing 100 years ago how? But then he doesn't have time travel...

 

I assumed the writing had lasted for 100 years for him to read in the present, then realised it was paint and would have worn away and/or hidden by trees at a future date.

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Going to have to watch this part again - it's not very easy to follow as plots become more and more complicated.

 

I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism, but this isn't the sort of thing you'd watch as a family with your kids, is it?  Mine would be completely lost by this point.

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17 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

Going to have to watch this part again - it's not very easy to follow as plots become more and more complicated.

 

I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism, but this isn't the sort of thing you'd watch as a family with your kids, is it?  Mine would be completely lost by this point.

Surely that's part of its current problems. Dr Who should be a show you watch with your family and kids.

 

I did as a kid and have been doing so the last few years with my own kids but these episodes are all over the place and I barely have a clue what's going on so when my kids ask questions I'm struggling to answer.

 

We all just want this lot finished, get the new Dr in place and get on with some fun silly time traveling adventures.

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1 minute ago, memories said:

Surely that's part of its current problems. Dr Who should be a show you watch with your family and kids.

 

I did as a kid and have been doing so the last few years with my own kids but these episodes are all over the place and I barely have a clue what's going on so when my kids ask questions I'm struggling to answer.

 

We all just want this lot finished, get the new Dr in place and get on with some fun silly time traveling adventures.

 

I agree - but it's a difficult thing to do Dr Who right.  The science fiction in Flux has been good, but with that comes the risk of it being maybe too wibbly wobbly timey wimey for family viewing.

 

I'm with you regarding the last sentence - 100%.  

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I don't even think the storytelling is necessarily complex, it's more rambling and incoherent and reliant on the final episode somehow tying it all together in a statisfactory manner (spoiler: it won't).

 

This mini-season is also suffering from one of the worst cases of small universe syndrome I've seen.

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The perfect example of timey wimey but coherent storytelling is probably Blink, which told an incredible sci-fi story with non-linear elements but still managed to make you care about brand new characters. All that in the space of 45 minutes as well. I cared more about Sally and Larry after that single episode than I do about any of the characters in Flux.

 

The whole Division/Timeless Child thing is interesting to me as a Doctor Who fan and I want to find out more, but I don't think its made for a good story.

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2 hours ago, Boothjan said:

Going to have to watch this part again - it's not very easy to follow as plots become more and more complicated.

 

I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism, but this isn't the sort of thing you'd watch as a family with your kids, is it?  Mine would be completely lost by this point.

 

In the earlier episodes I had a hard time following things as an adult :D they seemed to start things off with multiple threads that you just had to kind of hope would make more sense and gain more relevance as you got more breadcrumbs. Like you, I'm not making a criticism - I shrug and assume the initial bewilderment to be intentional - but sometimes it feels like the writing is torn between making accessible family viewing and satiating social media nerds who want something more crazy.

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1 hour ago, Mogster said:

The perfect example of timey wimey but coherent storytelling is probably Blink, which told an incredible sci-fi story with non-linear elements but still managed to make you care about brand new characters. All that in the space of 45 minutes as well. I cared more about Sally and Larry after that single episode than I do about any of the characters in Flux.

 

And it coined the phrase "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" as a throwaway line.

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Ultimately I think it's perfectly possible to do what Chibs is trying to achieve here. I just think it needs a better writer than he's capable of. There's elements that work but ultimately it's a massive and badly plotted mess.

 

It does still evoke Virgin NA feels for me though so I'm fine with it.

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The thing is, as much as I can see the flaws in the execution, I'm finding this a lot more fun to watch than the previous showrunners' attempts at arc stories. RTD made up bad wolf as a tease without having an end goal in mind, so when it came time to resolve it it was a cobbled together load of nonsense, and Moffatt's crack in time or eyepatch woman or pandorica or whatever all seem to have a Silence-like ability to slide out of my brain even while I'm watching them.

 

Maybe I just like having cliffhangers back.

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I still really like this. It’s barking mad and camp as hell and borderline incomprehensible in places and if you think about it too long it makes no sense whatsoever, but it is at least interesting. If Chibnall had come roaring out of the gate with something as bonkers as this three years ago we’d all have been a lot more intrigued. It’s just a shame that literally everyone (including me, admittedly) is expecting him to crash and burn next week. 

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On 29/11/2021 at 12:57, Mogster said:

The perfect example of timey wimey but coherent storytelling is probably Blink, which told an incredible sci-fi story with non-linear elements but still managed to make you care about brand new characters. All that in the space of 45 minutes as well. I cared more about Sally and Larry after that single episode than I do about any of the characters in Flux.


Just watched Blink after I read this post and realised I've never seen the weeping angel origin story. I know it's unfair to compare the current series with an iconic all-time great episode, but the contrast is almost unbelievable. Just night and day.

 

I'm going to have to revisit all the Tennant/Smith parts I missed out on, aren't I?

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