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FishyFish
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Good points eighthours, however to mtry and make Doctor Who overly dark would ruin it. Thats the American way to do things and its very boring. I cant even look at the new Battlestar Galactica without wanting to scream.

The tonality difference is one of the things that makes Doctor Who so unique and so uniquely british.

What other country could come up with a time traveller who travels space and time in a blue police box thats bigger on the inside than the out?

As for the Doctor's "bastard" qualities this have been in effect from episode one when he trapped and essentially kidnapped Ian and Barbra.

He is a hero, but at the end of the day he still has some alien motives that conflict with human morality. He is after all a Timelord, they were renowned for being officious and po-faced at times.

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just watched both of those parts again - still very choked at the end. Very emotional ending with Tim in the wheelchair and the music over that part was excellent.

This two parter beats Empty Child and The Dr Dances.

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Just to add that this double bill has been the highlight of the season so far. Really, really enjoyable stuff, and really moving at the end with old Tim, and the Doctor and Martha watching on. Brilliantly well done. And a great twist as well, the whole reason he was running from the family. Excellent stuff all round. Oh, and Tennent's performance as John Smith was just superb.

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On the subject of which, what's the betting that Stephen Moffat's episode will be the best of the series again?

I'll be gobsmacked if it beats the last two weeks, to be honest - especially as it's the Doctor Lite episode. But then again, who knows?

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Ron Grainer is credited because its his composition being used. As good as the recording and production of the original were, they're not being used in this version. YOu could just as easily complain about the lack of credits for past Doctor actors informing Tennant's performance but there's only so much space. ;)

Jumble Jumble's quote above sums it up well.

To consider Grainer the only author or composer of the original theme is simply due to a fault in our definition of 'composer', probably based on legal definitions and precendents created before the concept of 'producing' really existed. While he might be technically the composer, the Dr Who theme as we all know it, and as recreated by Gold, was clearly the creative work of both Grainer and Derbyshire, and it would be hard to argue that Derbyshire's contribution wasn't at least as important as the Grainers.

The distinctive theramin sound is being used in the new version, whether it's an original sample or a recreation I don't know, and that was nothing to do with Grainer.

I was slightly surprised that RTD's crew didn't see fit to honour her with a little mention on the credits.

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Who says that a family show can't be grown up? Apart from Lucas.

Mistakenly? Torchwood is as grown up as The Chuckle Brothers. (Still like it, mind.)

I like your spin-off idea. McGann was the ace element of a weak TV movie.

Yeah the only thing adult about Torchwood is the swearing. If they cut that out it wouldn't look out of place in the family slot that Dr Who fills. Supernatural, Heroes and Bones all manage so much more with blood and violence yet don't bang on about how "adult" they are. They need to do more in Torchwood than just say fuck.

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I liked this episode a lot too. Shades of Father's Day with John Smith having to sacrifice himself, and the "normal life" thing. I like spotting themes in episodes by the same writers - like, The Empty Child and The Girl In The Fireplace are both about well-meaning robots going wrong with hilarious consequences. Er, fatal, rather.

On the subject of which, what's the betting that Stephen Moffat's episode will be the best of the series again?

I dunno. He's going to have to go some to beat this last one.

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true tiger

however countrycide was a step in the right direction I felt. genuinely chilling.

Yeah that was ace, although the shoot out was so badly shot that I laughed at the time. I liked quite a few of the episodes but there was nothing really that required the late night slot.

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Do you guys who love Doctor Who so much actually watch other shows? Not including reality TV or DIY/cooking shows but any actual drama or other sci-fi. The superlatives hurled at this show by so many people are quite incredible. I just don't get it. It's okay, and I watch it because, y'know, it's Doctor Who, but I've never once thought "Wow. That's amazing television".

Well hardly any of the Sci Fi's will be running next season... you can't expect something as long running as this to consistently come up with fantastic storylines (isn't BSG about to die?)

So yeah, sure, some Epi's arn't great to people who arn't long time fans.

But then some Space based computer games aren't great despite the fact they're set in a Star Wars universe. Yet people still love them.

Its a similar thing.

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So yeah, sure, some Epi's arn't great to people who arn't long time fans.

But then some Space based computer games aren't great despite the fact they're set in a Star Wars universe. Yet people still love them.

Its a similar thing.

Ah but that's where the over the top love for the show shines through. I'm playing through PotC at the moment and I'd admit that it's not the greatest game in the world but it's good if you liked PotC, same thing with the xbox Futurama game. With the good Doctor though it seems like some people splooge over it no matter what, see the crazy people who creamed over 42 for an example.

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Jumble Jumble's quote above sums it up well.

To consider Grainer the only author or composer of the original theme is simply due to a fault in our definition of 'composer', probably based on legal definitions and precendents created before the concept of 'producing' really existed. While he might be technically the composer, the Dr Who theme as we all know it, and as recreated by Gold, was clearly the creative work of both Grainer and Derbyshire, and it would be hard to argue that Derbyshire's contribution wasn't at least as important as the Grainers.

The distinctive theramin sound is being used in the new version, whether it's an original sample or a recreation I don't know, and that was nothing to do with Grainer.

I was slightly surprised that RTD's crew didn't see fit to honour her with a little mention on the credits.

I stand corrected! Still, I imagine the "legal definition" is the only reason the credit's there at all.

EDIT: As much as I love the show, that doesn't mean I like all of it no matter what. Fear Her for example is shite of the highest order! The show as a whole simply clicks with me in a way that most don't, and I'm a massive fan of the Doctor as a character. I guess that adds to my enjoyment of the show as a whole, but rest assured I never blindly "slooge over it" out of some fanboyish delusion. I loved 42 though.

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Wonder what he was refering to when asking about the children just before he died.

It could have been the Family of Blood. It's mentioned before that bit that they would have an immortal reign of terror.

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On that subject, what exactly was it that rendered them so impotent at the end of the episode? They could have pegged it at least, surely?

No, the Family did not become impotent. The Doctor was merely revealed in his wrath. The point of the "he was being kind" speech was that the Doctor could have dealt with them, harshly, at any point, but rather than do it he hid in order to give them a chance to live out their natural lives.

It was a neat way to side step needs exposition and kept the story tightly focused. It really was very well done, this one.

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Yes, but he hasn't physically got the power to restrain 4 aliens and punish them like that. They could have shot him, run, anything.

Obviously I take the point about what that whole scene was doing, and I guess we are supposed to fill in the blanks. But one minute they're running about shooting the place up, the next they're cowering in fear from the very being they were stalking. I suppose their ship was gone though, which would put them at his mercy.

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The whole idea of hiding for 3 months from a time-travelling enemy is a bit daft; they can turn up at any time, the three months is only their personal timeline.

Although I agree that these were the best episodes I think its interesting that they are the first with such significant plot holes (the hiding, Martha not having the watch etc.). The 'hiding in every mirror' thing seemed like magic rather than science too.

I don't have a problem with any of this. I just think it's strange that the plot-hole brigade haven't been along today.

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Yes, but he hasn't physically got the power to restrain 4 aliens and punish them like that. They could have shot him, run, anything.

They had just been blown over by their exploding ship. He could probably have taken their guns while they were on the ground and the rest is fairly easy.

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Yeah, but they could have just ran off.

I think JP's right, there are plot holes. But it doesn't matter, because it works anyway. I'm happy to accept the Doctor being able to capture the four of them, and "magically" imprison one in a mirror ("every mirror"), because it's just a nice image and embellishes the myth of the character. But in any literal sense it's a bit leaky.

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On the subject of guns, I just assumed they'd left them in their ship. I didn't see any of them carrying them when the Doctor entered it, and I doubt they took the time to pick them up when running outside.

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