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FishyFish
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Again, yes and no... we basically need (and have) two quality control labels; one for the average Any Dream Will Do watching Saturday night goon...

Yes, these figures aren't made by the aver...oh nevermind. I've said that already and you ignored it the first time.

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Yes, these figures aren't made by the aver...oh nevermind. I've said that already and you ignored it the first time.

On what basis are this 'carefully selected panel' chosen?

I'm genuinely interested to know.

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Who knows.

Google it.

I already have. It mostly seems to bring up Doctor Who sites.

EDIT: All I've managed to find over and above that is a BARB breakdown of social and economic class. No further details of how the panel is chosen. I genuinely want to know.

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Try registering with BARB, I guess.

The only reason I posted the AI figures was to point out to C-Cat that his view that the two Dalek stories were "failed experiments" was not actually an accepted fact, as he seemed to be suggesting. He asked to see them, if you check back.

The reception to this whole series outside this thread has been consistently positive - from episode 1 to 10. AI figures are an industry standard and it's fairly likely the Beeb pay more attention to them than they do the ramblings in here. :(

Helen Raynor has already been confirmed for a story in series four anyway, as I understand it. So clearly RTD and co. don't consider her work a "failed experiment" either.

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Smith & Jones - 3/5

Shakespeare Code - 3/5

Gridlock - 4/5

Daleks in Manhattan - 2/5

Evolution of the Daleks - 2/5

Lazarus Experiment - 4/5

42 - 0/5

Human Nature - 4/5

Family of Blood - 3/5

Blink - 5/5

Although Blink really should have it's own little fridge separate from the rest of them. Quite possibly one of the finest things we'll see on TV this year.

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Smith & Jones 3/5

The Shakespeare Code 3/5

Gridlock 5/5

Daleks in Manhattan 4/5

Evolution of the Daleks 3/5

Lazarus 4/5

42 4/5

Human Nature 5/5

Family of Blood 5/5

Blink 5/5

Three personal 5/5's make this a rather good series for me. :(

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Yup, I did ask for the AI figures and tbh I wasn't really surprised at what they offered, in the same way that Gears of War scored 90% plus across the board but people seem to re-evaluate it now that the hype has gone down... It's just the way it is. I think if the figures had been more spread out more than a couple of points I'd believe them more but everything within three or four % points? Seems unlikely to me and not indicative of the ups and downs the series has seemed to have.

And yeah I agree with Jerellis' points about the population of the forum being a little unusual :( in terms of the general audience, more discerning in ways. For me I'm lucky enough to work with several disparate groups that all cover a different part of the general public (youth work on two council estates, youth work on one posh estate, college teaching from NC to BA with all groups in between) and what suprised me was that very few people seemed to be coming back glowing about the eps whereas the last couple were big reactions.

I agree the reaction to series three has been positive from what I've been hearing as well. But not across the board and not without some issues being raised on occasion. Once the dust has died down on the series and people begin to reevaluate it as a whole I'm sure that some issues will be brought forward. I don't know enough about the writer of teh Dalek two parter to know whether it was a dip in her quality (imo of course) or whether it was more indicative of a direction that I don't think was successful. I'd certainly rather see more scripts of the quality of the last three eps than the middle three. And I guess failed experiments was a poor choice of wording concerning the two parter. In fact they weren't experimental at all :( just a rehash and a retread with the series slightly upped production values attached. The experiment I assumed was in letting a new and I'm guessing although I may be hugely wrong, untested writer onto the most valuable property they have in terms of bad guy and seeing it weaken the whole kit and kaboodle. Moffat on blink strikes me as them knowing who is the best writer and wanting to bring him onto an experiment (the Wholess ep) which needed to wokr in terms of budgetary consideration. Job done I hope that they move him or one of the more proven qualified writers onto a reinvention of the Daleks. Another last of their kinds facing off would be a massive mistake imo. We need an army of the blighters :(

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Another personal anecdote to back up c-cat114's experience.

My missus has been watching the new Who every week along with the rest of the family, and she's loved it from Rose onwards. This series, after every episode, she looked at me with a kind of shrug and a sneer saying "that wasn't very good, was it?" It even got to the point where she refused to watch Confidential, because she couldn't stand to see them talking about how great the episode we've just watched was, when she didn't think it was that good.

This carried on until 42. That was the first one she thought was back up to the standard set by the previous two series, and she's enjoyed all the subsequent episodes.

She's not particularly a Who fan.

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It's funny, there's such a wide range of opinion on Gridlock. I thought it was weaker overall, but then it had the Face of Bo moment that really impressed me.

If I was forced to rate them so far...

Smith & Jones 4/5

The Shakespeare Code 4/5

Gridlock 3/5

Daleks in Manhattan 3/5

Evolution of the Daleks 3/5

Lazarus 4/5

42 3/5

Human Nature 5/5

Family of Blood 5/5

Blink 5/5

Note: my impression of the Daleks 2-parter is partly spoiled by the fact I missed the first five minutes of Evolution and had to watch it again later in the week. It still felt a bit "stretched" to fill two episodes to me. Whereas Blink was superb - as Stephen Moffat said in Confidential this week, it's a film script idea compressed into forty-five minutes.

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Another personal anecdote to back up c-cat114's experience.

My missus has been watching the new Who every week along with the rest of the family, and she's loved it from Rose onwards. This series, after every episode, she looked at me with a kind of shrug and a sneer saying "that wasn't very good, was it?" It even got to the point where she refused to watch Confidential, because she couldn't stand to see them talking about how great the episode we've just watched was, when she didn't think it was that good.

This carried on until 42. That was the first one she thought was back up to the standard set by the previous two series, and she's enjoyed all the subsequent episodes.

She's not particularly a Who fan.

This appears to be becoming received wisdom, and it really surprises me as I think this whole series has been remarkably consistent (with the possible exception of Travesty of the Daleks, but even that wasn't THAT bad). Compared to some of the drivel we had to put up with last season anyway - there's been nothing as bad as New Earth, Rise of the Cybermen, The Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her... Sure, the last three episodes have been exceptional, but the first half of the series was great too.

Anyway, as everyone else is doing it, I'd go for:

Smith & Jones 4/5

The Shakespeare Code 4/5

Gridlock 4/5

Daleks in Manhattan 3/5

Evolution of the Daleks 3/5

The Lazarus Experiment 4/5

42 4/5

Human Nature 4/5

Family of Blood 5/5

Blink 5/5

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Another personal anecdote to back up c-cat114's experience.

My missus has been watching the new Who every week along with the rest of the family, and she's loved it from Rose onwards. This series, after every episode, she looked at me with a kind of shrug and a sneer saying "that wasn't very good, was it?" It even got to the point where she refused to watch Confidential, because she couldn't stand to see them talking about how great the episode we've just watched was, when she didn't think it was that good.

This carried on until 42. That was the first one she thought was back up to the standard set by the previous two series, and she's enjoyed all the subsequent episodes.

She's not particularly a Who fan.

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My GF also watched idiots lantern and fear her on a flight, both episodes that Rllmuk thought were pretty poor (I didn't see fear her, watched most of idiots lantern and didn't like it - but was more pissed off it was set in London than anything else). She spent a good few minutes describing the episodes to me, with a lot of "Oh no! How's he going to escape?" type narration. So I think she liked both of those as well.

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An army of them would definitely be fun, but it'd still be something that had been done before; what I really think was needed was something wholly different, which for a moment it looked as though we might be getting with the Human Dalek hybrid... and then they killed him off after just one episode!! :(

That's probably the one thing about Evolution of the Daleks that pissed me off more than anything else - they had a fantastic new direction in which to take the story of the Daleks right there in the palm of their hand, and then they utterly fucked it up. Imagine how great it would have been if they'd left him alive at the end of that episode - we'd know there was this new, mysterious enemy in the Who universe out there somewhere in space and time, with the potential to be either utterly evil (humans can be evil too) or a force for good, ready to make a spectacular return in a future series. A flawed, genetically engineered super-being with a terrifying ancestry, constantly battling with his conflicting feelings and being torn apart from within by an irrepressibly destructive impulse to destroy and survive at all costs. Jesus Christ, Dalek Sec had the potential to be to The Doctor what The Joker is to Bat-Man. Talk about a missed opportunity. :(

I'm kind of with you on that score, soko, 'cos I always thought the Daleks were bestest when Davros was the machiavelian string puller. He was ace and I think I'd have like to see Sec come along and take over that role, although to be honest I thought the pin stripe suit design looked rubbish. It was only when he did the hackneyed, seen it a million times as a escape device "what are these things I'm feeling... I feel... love for my common man..... I need to phone in a donation to Children in need" cobblers that I thought no, just get rid of him. But thinking about it you're right losing him was worseerer than keeping him so chalk that one up on the board of what the heck were they thinking ofs. A more proficient writer might have done something interesting with the character. Maybe they still will, everyone can do time travel nowadays.

And yeah, the army of Daleks has been done, but to me not to death and my fondest memories of Who are when they run down one corridor and see half a dozen of the dustbins turn to face them. I think what I want is to see them as a force to be reckoned with, not a watering down of a cool enemy. I want to see them moving with purpose, rather than just shooting things, shouting exterminate, and not really acting in a sensible manner. They used to plot to take over things, now they just move into position to deliver the next one liner. Evolution did start to look into that but just in a bit of a clumsy manner. The two parter at the end of the last series sort of did that as well but... again it felt a little unsatisfying.

Travesty of the Daleks

Lollamio. Suitably renamed. Nice one.

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It was only a free one from the Adventures comic, but I am demanding she buy me one of the proper ones that make sounds etc every time we go to Tesco

DIVORCE HER. She doesn't understand, and she never will. It's a battle of the sexes.

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Get your child into Doctor Who?

As a result I/we have a TARDIS playset, the moxx, 1 Tennant, 1 Rose, 1 K9, 1 Krillitane, 1, werewolf, 1 reveal dalek, 1 Cyberman, 1 Cassandra, A plethora of TARDIS' and 1 sound making Sonic screwdriver ;)

I/we want a Judoon and a Face of Boe next.

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I'd have killed for shit like that when I was a kid. It's the sort of thing the playground bullshitter would try to get you to believed existed, and that his mum worked at the factory and could get you one for free, yadda yadda.

Doug Tanner his name was. He told me you could get Jabba's Sail Barge, and I believed him. He also told me he had an underground tunnel from his house to all his mates'.

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I'd have killed for shit like that when I was a kid. It's the sort of thing the playground bullshitter would try to get you to believed existed, and that his mum worked at the factory and could get you one for free, yadda yadda.

Doug Tanner his name was. He told me you could get Jabba's Sail Barge, and I believed him. He also told me he had an underground tunnel from his house to all his mates'.

You were a stupid child. ;)

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