Doctor Who

[Jug McKenzie]

linkster said:

 

[DeNeo]

Nah, man! Think about it! The Doctor and his assistant visit alien world, covered in snow. The Doctor's arrival is witnessed by loads of kids who see him as some sort of magic man. He's doing tricks for them and all sorts. And they don't have a Christmas on this planet, obviously. And the kids are telling him - "Ooh, I wish I had a Garmian Bird from the jungles of planet Garia." And it gives him an idea. And he starts going around the universe, through time, collecting gifts for all these kids, and delivering them at midnight. It takes him a year. And his assistant is like "Fucksake, Doctor. This is a year of my life here." And he's all like "Hey, where's your Christmas spirit?!" And to get some of the more far flung gifts, they're getting into scrapes, flying the Tardis into volcanoes for rare gemstones, being chased by monsters, all that shit. And eventually he finishes delivering them all.

Man.

And the assistant's like "But why? Are we going to do this to every planet that has some kids who want gifts?"

And he's all like "This is why."

And he takes her a few weeks into the future, when a supernova in the planet's galaxy wipes out the entire world.

No global threat bullshit, still plenty of adventurey bits, and your old granny/niece/me is crying.

My main point is that they're not very Christmassy these Christmas shows.

Wow. And what an ending that would be.

[linkster]

Err... that's hilarious, actually. So let me get this straight: I plead with all the nitpickers just to relax and enjoy a fun telly programme and not to expect Raiders of the Lost Ark style brilliance every time they sit down in front of the box, and then I suggest that all the doom and gloom over season four based on the strength of one thirty second trailer is completely unnecessary - and then you tell me I'M taking it all too seriously?

This isn't about nitpicking. I'm not disappointed in the Xmas special for a few off colour moments. It was in its entirety badly written, acted, scored and paced, a crass, stupid piece of television with no entertainment value at all. IMO. Most of S3 was similarly rubbish, and while I was willing to give it a chance, Catherine Tate does appear to be at her most annoying judging by that trailer (and Freema's back. Joy ) so it wouldn't surprise me if it carried on the trend. But I don't think I care enough to start swearing and frothing at anyone who would disagree with me, which is what you seem to be doing.

[Jug McKenzie]

linkster said:

 

[Yix]

That's nice. I'm agreeing.

What a convoluted bunch we people are!

[FishyFish]

Nah, man! Think about it! The Doctor and his assistant visit alien world, covered in snow. The Doctor's arrival is witnessed by loads of kids who see him as some sort of magic man. He's doing tricks for them and all sorts. And they don't have a Christmas on this planet, obviously. And the kids are telling him - "Ooh, I wish I had a Garmian Bird from the jungles of planet Garia." And it gives him an idea. And he starts going around the universe, through time, collecting gifts for all these kids, and delivering them at midnight. It takes him a year. And his assistant is like "Fucksake, Doctor. This is a year of my life here." And he's all like "Hey, where's your Christmas spirit?!" And to get some of the more far flung gifts, they're getting into scrapes, flying the Tardis into volcanoes for rare gemstones, being chased by monsters, all that shit. And eventually he finishes delivering them all.

Man.

And the assistant's like "But why? Are we going to do this to every planet that has some kids who want gifts?"

And he's all like "This is why."

And he takes her a few weeks into the future, when a supernova in the planet's galaxy wipes out the entire world.

No global threat bullshit, still plenty of adventurey bits, and your old granny/niece/me is crying.

My main point is that they're not very Christmassy these Christmas shows.

Nice one. Sent a shiver down my spine (in a nice way), reading that did.

[JohnC]

Incidentally, as regards the forklift truck and it having its brakes cut: I'm appalled that Minogue's character died there when all she had to do was step out of the truck and watch it carry on WITHOUT brakes taking the cyborg with it. That's just one instances of several from last night where you can look at this show and simply be appalled by just how lazy it is.

How is it going to carry on without someone pushing on the pedal? If she stepped out, it would have stopped dead after about 2 feet. A forklift won't roll as well as a car will.

[Mogster]

Biglime, you owe it to everyone in this thread to turn that concept into a script, and then personally deliver it to Russell T Davies.

[Peter Hitchens]

Biglime, you owe it to everyone in this thread to turn that concept into a script, and then personally deliver it to Russell T Davies.

I second this. Great idea.

[vegetables]

Biglime, you owe it to everyone in this thread to turn that concept into a script, and then personally deliver it to Russell T Davies.

He'd be near certain to reject it, though, alas.

[Hexx]

I was transfixed by his miraculous ears

In my house we call them love handles

Oddly enough I watch Imposs Planet/Satan pit recenlty.

There ability to make 3d "minor" characters in seconds was amazing there.

Can anyone explain to me when, having been lost for about 10 minutes, they decided to sit down and have some food? It was obviously just done so Old Man could have a heart to heart.

[Jack]

He'd be near certain to reject it, though, alas.

Make one of the characters a ridiculously camp alien called Glampuffatickleawankawankawank from the planet Canalstreet Seven, and it'll pass the RTD test.

[Boyatsea]

Haha, have you watched Torchwood? Fucking hell, Earth's first line of defence against alien invaders choose sodding Cardiff as their headquarters!

Yeah. It's not like it had anything to do with the plot in Doctor Who or anything, is it.

[vegetables]

Make one of the characters a ridiculously camp alien called Glampuffatickleawankawankawank from the planet Canalstreet Seven, and it'll pass the RTD test.

It was more that I can't imagine him letting anyone else write a Christmas special, even if it's done by someone with experience in the BBC and a brilliant idea. I think he's already decided on what he's writing next year.

[Boyatsea]

To be fair, he'd already be leaving it a little late if he hadn't thought about it by now.

[Professor Puzzles]

In that trailer:

Is the blonde lady with the sonic screwdriver the reincarnated Master?

[vegetables]

To be fair, he'd already be leaving it a little late if he hadn't thought about it by now.

That is true. I just think there's such a thing as too much creative power over a show.

[Boyatsea]

Maybe, but that show is more of a family - that's certainly the impression I get. I don't think RTD sits on a big chair in some big office cackling at all the power he's amassed.

I think after bringing it back, RTD is probably entitled to say he wants to write certain episodes, like the specials, series openers and closers. On the whole, he does a good job, too. I just think Who is a show that people love so much that if absolutely everything isn't top notch, it's all to easy to spot the bad before the good.

[vegetables]

Maybe, but that show is more of a family - that's certainly the impression I get. I don't think RTD sits on a big chair in some big office cackling at all the power he's amassed.

No, but he's surrounded by people who agree with him and he has near total authority over all scripts. I think when that happens a level of arrogance is likely to emerge in anyone, and I get the impression from some of the things he writes that RTD believes in his own hype too much. There are things in his scripts, and only his scripts, which appear again and again and are neither funny or interesting, and that kind of implies to me that a harsh editing programme is not in place for things he writes. Certainly not to the extent that one of his episodes would ever be ditched and rewritten from the ground up by anyone other than himself. I think it's almost inarguable that some of what he's written would really have benifited from even a small amount of editing and removal of large amounts of self-indulgence, but if anything he's getting worse as he goes on.

[JPickford]

There are things in his scripts, and only his scripts, which appear again and again and are neither funny or interesting,

What like?

[vegetables]

What like?

Strange and jarring Anti-Americanisms coming from the doctor at odd times, obsessive referencing back to episodes he's written himself, strange half-explanations of things that don't make sense, "hilarious" alien names, huge, long speeches by the Doctor or his companion of all the great places they've been/ will go to before they go to London again, a strange and constant obsession with celebrity culture, a scene where lots of newsreaders look alarmed while the music clucks to itself, "hilarious" allusions to popular culture that all revolve around the same basic joke and frequently jar with the episode's contents and concepts that are frequently obviously thought through to a far lesser extent than those of most of the other writers. Oh, and terrible episode resolutions and pacing. To me these are all signs of a script writer who is allowed to get away with his indulgences, and quite possibly too many of them.

[Boyatsea]

Strange and jarring Anti-Americanisms coming from the doctor at odd times, obsessive referencing back to episodes he's written himself, strange half-explanations of things that don't make sense, "hilarious" alien names, huge, long speeches by the Doctor or his companion of all the great places they've been/ will go to before they go to London again, a strange and constant obsession with celebrity culture, a scene where lots of newsreaders look alarmed while the music clucks to itself, "hilarious" allusions to popular culture that all revolve around the same basic joke and frequently jar with the episode's contents and concepts that are frequently obviously thought through to a far lesser extent than those of most of the other writers.

For most of those, again, I say "what like?"

[Eighthours]

For most of those, again, I say "what like?"

Britney Spears. Toxic. Ho ho ho.

[vegetables]

For most of those, again, I say "what like?"

Do you really want me to list multiple examples of all these things? I could, but it would take ages and I don't really want to.

[ZOK]

It was easily one of the most cringeworthy bits since Doctor Who has come back.

Probably, but as I said I don't watch it that much. Cringeworthy or not though, it was still the most fun to be had from the whole show.

[SeanR]

Do you really want me to list multiple examples of all these things? I could, but it would take ages and I don't really want to.

they want you to go off on a homophobic rant about RTDs "gay agenda" coming out in the scripts. Go on, do it. Everyone loves a car-crash thread...

[vegetables]

they want you to go off on a homophobic rant about RTDs "gay agenda" coming out in the scripts. Go on, do it. Everyone loves a car-crash thread...

I don't have any problem at all with a pro-homosexuality slant in scripts. Sometimes it is a little ham-fisted, though (It's okay! Cyborgs can marry too!), as is quite a lot of his anti-America commentry. I suppose I'd prefer it if pro-homosexuality themes always integrated themselves more or less seamlessly into the episode rather than existing in the form of odd lines that don't always dramaticly work in contex,t which I think is one of the few things Torchwood does very well. To be fair to RTD, I thought Gridlock also did this very, very well indeed. So did lots of the things involving Captain Jack, but I'm not sure how much credit he deserves for that and how much Moffat does.

I don't think "Stupid American Government!" has *ever* been integrated into an episode well, though, which is a shame.

[Garwoofoo]

Strange and jarring Anti-Americanisms coming from the doctor at odd times, obsessive referencing back to episodes he's written himself, strange half-explanations of things that don't make sense, "hilarious" alien names, huge, long speeches by the Doctor or his companion of all the great places they've been/ will go to before they go to London again, a strange and constant obsession with celebrity culture, a scene where lots of newsreaders look alarmed while the music clucks to itself, "hilarious" allusions to popular culture that all revolve around the same basic joke and frequently jar with the episode's contents and concepts that are frequently obviously thought through to a far lesser extent than those of most of the other writers. Oh, and terrible episode resolutions and pacing. To me these are all signs of a script writer who is allowed to get away with his indulgences, and quite possibly too many of them.

What a good post. You're absolutely spot on with almost all of these. (The only one I think you're slightly harsh with is "obsessive referencing back to episodes he's written himself", which I don't think is true and is also an accusation that could be levelled at Steven Moffat).

To this, I'd also add an inability to "do small". Everything RTD does has to affect the whole of the human race, the fate of the Earth, the lives of six billion people etc etc. Whereas a story like Blink, that features a couple of people in danger, is often far more affecting.

[vegetables]

What a good post. You're absolutely spot on with almost all of these. (The only one I think you're slightly harsh with is "obsessive referencing back to episodes he's written himself", which I don't think is true and is also an accusation that could be levelled at Steven Moffat).

To this, I'd also add an inability to "do small". Everything RTD does has to affect the whole of the human race, the fate of the Earth, the lives of six billion people etc etc. Whereas a story like Blink, that features a couple of people in danger, is often far more affecting.

That's a good second point, to which I'd add RTD's scripts seem to big up the human race to a slightly alarming extent when there's shit going down affecting the whole of it.

I think I should clarify on the first point; I meant that he refers back to his own stories an awful lot, pointing out all the various massive invasions he's created in a manner that seems to me slightly self-congratulatory. That's different to Steven Moffat, who does have certain lines that only appear in his stories, but certainly doesn't attempt to link them all together into creating a bit of a car-crash present Earth that no longer resembles our own in any real way. I actually think that doing this may prove extremely harmful to the series in the long run, and I'm not sure he's thought of the implications diverging the Who universe from our own quite so strongly may have on the appeal to new viewers and children.

[JPickford]

Earth that no longer resembles our own in any real way.

What does that even mean? There are events that haven't happened in our world. That hardly counts as bearing no resemblance.

I think you're overstating this stuff. I didn't think much of this years special either (I think they were distracted by having Kylie in it) but RTD has been responsible for some brilliant episodes over the last few years.