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FishyFish
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OK, so it's an extreme example. But can you honestly say the music was always a big feature of the show?

Absolutely, assuming we're covering all the music. So many of those wobbly, unconvincing creatures would have had no effect at all on you if it hadn't been for the otherwordly 'music' that came with them.

For the new one, it'd have been fantastic if they'd taken all the electronic music artists that owe their careers to the Radiophonic Workshop, and got them to soundtrack and score. Imagine Aphex Twin, Luke Vibert, Squarepusher, Orbital and so on doing Doctor Who stuff. Awesome. And Orbital have already done the theme tune anyway.

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It feels an emotion - hate - and to discount the possibility of it not discovering other emotions such as fear or hope, both displayed in the episode - it seems that the deepest fanboys are having trouble dealing with it.

This series has skilfully ignored or discarded the baggage of old Dr Who which had suffocated the life out of the series in the 80s and was one of the reasons I hated it.  So it is only reasonable and consistent that the new series continues its habit of reintroducing old foes with a new, more logical slant.  No-one is black and white in this series.

Besides, I'd hate it if all the episode was is to have been a con trick.  I don't want that Dalek back, I want it to have felt the sunlight, and to have died with some dignity and peace.  Because that makes for a hell of a lot better of an episode than "Ha ha! April Fool!"

Well if that deepest fanboy line is marked for me then, I'd like to point out I'm far from deep :). Its just IMO Daleks are evil, nasty,single-minded and nothing else.

I just cant trust them is all. For all my life I've been told not to trust them so it may take a while for my mind to change. The same as the Doctor, Hence his trigger happy attitude at the end.

I would like to point out I am more than capable of dealing with new ideas and concepts in Doctor Who. Its why I kept reading the books because, "get this" they introduced new ideas and concepts to Doctor Who. Plus some damn fine angst and character development for The Doctor and companion/s he had with him.

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Its just IMO Daleks are evil, nasty,single-minded and nothing else.

Until infected with Human DNA. Then they don't know what they are. If you're a being which has been genetically engineered to destroy anything which is "other" to yourself, and you become something else, what do you do?

It really was a great piece of TV, let alone a great Dr Who story.

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It really was a great piece of TV, let alone a great Dr Who story.

It was wasnt it :), I understand the humanising of the Dalek honest I do :lol:.

One thing I'd like to throw into the mix though. Do we not need to consider the human propensity for evil and death, could this have had a even greater effect on the DALEK than we realise?

Making it even more manipulative and evil maybe it could lie better too. We aint exactly perfect now are we. Or is this rubbish?

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It was wasnt it :), I understand the humanising of the Dalek. One thing I;'d like to throw into the mix though. Do we not need to consider the human propensity for evil could have had a even greater effect on the DALEK making it even more manipulative and evil maybe it could lie even better. We aint exactly perfect now are we.

Yes, but no human is entirely evil. That's why the Daleks, as engineered by Davros, are such an abomination. Besides, it wasn't imbued with love as such, it was mainly fear that it picked up from Rose.

I think over-theorising on this clever little story to try to allow for some sort of future plot is, shall we say, a bit much. I may be wrong, but I think that's the last we'll see of that particular Dalek. The poor bugger just found out that it's existence was pointless, I think universal domination had slipped down its list of priorities a bit (as evinced by its simple desire to feel the sun).

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I think over-theorising on this clever little story to try to allow for some sort of future plot is, shall we say, a bit much. I may be wrong, but I think that's the last we'll see of that particular Dalek. The poor bugger just found out that it's existence was pointless, I think universal domination had slipped down its list of priorities a bit (as evinced by its simple desire to feel the sun).

On reflection, I think you're right about that.

Even though the story didn't carry me all the way along with it (partly due to my own preconceptions, I'll admit), I think it's great that a family Saturday teatime drama deals with a fascist's self-loathing for its own corruption, how it would feel to be alone in the dark and tortured for a human lifetime, desire for freedom and sunlight and oblivion, the morality of genocide, a collector who dreams of the stars but imprisons stardust deep below the desert. They manage to pack a lot into three quarters of an hour.

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I think it's great that a family Saturday teatime drama deals with a fascist's self-loathing for its own corruption, how it would feel to be alone in the dark and tortured for a human lifetime, desire for freedom and sunlight and oblivion, the morality of genocide, a collector who dreams of the stars but imprisons stardust deep below the desert. They manage to pack a lot into three quarters of an hour.

Oh, absolutely. It's this intelligence in the writing which I feel is crucial to the best Who stories, and which I don't feel you can really get anywhere else.

On top of that, it looked ace. Is this the first story with nothing to complain about in the FX dept?

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Man ppl are analyzing way to much, i enjoyed it and can't wait to see what happens next. Take it for what it is an excellent piece of 45 minute TV heaven (or hell if that's ur oppinion).

Yeah Mr vader, cos your just going to watch EPIII once and never talk of it again :)

Forums are for discussion KEY FACT No1

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Sorry to go slightly OT for a bit here, but remember Kace/Tonay shooting his mouth off about how shit Doctor Who was? Well...

http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/tb_display.cgi?id=20101#883501

Now I thought this 'Jossisgod' sounded like him from the beginning, but apparently he had a previously banned account called...Tonay.

That lad must have a very shit life if all he does is go around slagging off Doctor Who and talking about Buffy from one site to the next as he gets banned for being a cock.

He also made a complete embarrassment of himself by calling the Dalek epsiode racist and a disgrace to England or somesuch.

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I think it's great that a family Saturday teatime drama deals with a fascist's self-loathing for its own corruption, how it would feel to be alone in the dark and tortured for a human lifetime, desire for freedom and sunlight and oblivion, the morality of genocide, a collector who dreams of the stars but imprisons stardust deep below the desert. They manage to pack a lot into three quarters of an hour.

The problem is, that little paragraph there was better written than anything in the episode. I liked the episode, I like the new doctor who - but at points I was cringing. Even though the above was what they were trying to get across, I don't think they succeded.

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The problem is, that little paragraph there was better written than anything in the episode. I liked the episode, I like the new doctor who - but at points I was cringing. Even though the above was what they were trying to get across, I don't think they succeded.

Really? I think the fact we picked up on those elements enough to warrant their mention here shows they got their themes across perfectly well.

What were you cringing at?

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Absolutely, assuming we're covering all the music. So many of those wobbly, unconvincing creatures would have had no effect at all on you if it hadn't been for the otherwordly 'music' that came with them.

For the new one, it'd have been fantastic if they'd taken all the electronic music artists that owe their careers to the Radiophonic Workshop, and got them to soundtrack and score. Imagine Aphex Twin, Luke Vibert, Squarepusher, Orbital and so on doing Doctor Who stuff. Awesome. And Orbital have already done the theme tune anyway.

That's nice to hear but I wonder how recently you've watched it. I've seen the entire Tom Baker run recently and I can't recall a single time when the music wasn't anything other than something to be tuned out.

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Well the bit going up the stairs for a start. And the bit when it imploded. But then it looked fine to me.

Oh yeah, the implosion was CGI, but I didn't even think about the rest of it. For some reason I just thought it was model/superimposition work.

What did you guys think of the plunger? I thought it did a good job of making something really silly have a reason for being made of "rubber". Maybe not so much when it attacked the bloke (which was quite an unsubtle debunking of the old "death or plumbing" gags), but when you saw it manipulating the keypad.

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That's nice to hear but I wonder how recently you've watched it. I've seen the entire Tom Baker run recently and I can't recall a single time when the music wasn't anything other than something to be tuned out.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I remember individual bits of music. The bit in Brain of Morbius for example, when the old woman sacrifices herself to the sacred fire.

That was a cracking story, BoM.

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Actually, the more I think about it, the more I remember individual bits of music. The bit in Brain of Morbius for example, when the old woman sacrifices herself to the sacred fire.

That was a cracking story, BoM.

Yeah, I hadn't remembered it being that good. Like Meglos - that was a cracker.

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Yeah, I hadn't remembered it being that good. Like Meglos - that was a cracker.

Again, BoM was a favourite novelisation when I was a kid. The whole notion of Solon drawing ships in to crash so that he could nick body parts for Morbius' brain was pretty gruesome. The TV version was nearly as good in this case.

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as does Paddy Kingsland's who I believe also did the Hitchiker's music. That regeneration music in Logopolis is pure Hitchikers.

I was thinking that all through the story - it was those flutey sounds that did it. I kept expecting Simon Jones to explain who the Master is, accompanied by some Rod Lord guide graphics. :huh:

EDIT: I obviously meant Peter Jones. :unsure:

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I was thinking that all through the story - it was those flutey sounds that did it. I kept expecting Simon Jones to explain who the Master is, accompanied by some Rod Lord guide graphics.  :lol:

had chills in the movie as soon as I heard THAT theme. Awesome.

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