Jump to content
IGNORED

Doctor Who


FishyFish
 Share

Recommended Posts

Also, am I wrong in thinking that this has to be the first time that River meets the Doctor, which means that it's the last time that the Doctor meets River? That whole plot arc is done with? Or did I misread how they were meant to meet "out of order"?

No, it just looks like Moffat has gone back to the original (and better) idea, which was that they would encounter each other at random different points in their time streams, rather than in 'opposite order', which is what was semi-established since he started running the show.

I am a bit confused about something, though. I assumed that it would be River as little girl in the spacesuit, but now it seems that following the results of this episode, River is past her psychopath stage. She's not the little girl anymore, and if it was her in the suit then she would remember it. Of course, it could still be this incarnation of River in the suit, but that would rely on some kind of further brainwashing from The Silence, one presumes.

I really enjoyed this week's ep, barring the very amateurish "oh, we're in 1938, Hitler hasn't started yet, whoops" line that was completely and utterly ridiculous and insulted my intelligence. FFS Moffat, you could have thought your way out of that plot hole in 30 seconds. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that Melody wound up in New York (or somewhere in the US) in the '50s or '60s, was adopted, eventually kidnapped back by the Silence, put in the space suit, and the space suit shot the Doctor without her necessarily knowing what had happened - the visor was blacked out, probably. Although I'm not sure why she'd be in the suit in that instance and I'm sure I've forgotten some details. I should hit a wiki.

I think Moffat is above using "she was brainwashed to lose her memories" as an explanation for anything.

I will say that the gag about gradually making herself younger to mess with people got a laugh out of me.

Edit - Now I'm sure I've got some details wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that was a surprisingly weak episode that wouldn't have been out of place in RTD's run, fixated on resolving plot points at the cost of entertainment value and character. And also a pretty underwhelming resolution to plot points that we've been speculating about eagerly for weeks (baby Song) or years (River) which were pretty bombastically set up in the preceding episode.

I thought that the early part of the episode was fantastic - events carrying the Doctor, Amy and Rory along faster than they could keep up. I completely fell for the "If you could kill Hitler as a baby..." connotations of the title and thought it was going to be an episode about getting into a future-altering mess and then trying to fix it. That was all great fun, and then River's regeneration added another promising complication...

But then the Doctor was poisoned, which surprisingly for a ticking clock device seemed to slow down the whole pace. That's when the episode began to focus on resolving River-related plot points. To me, it didn't feel too soon to do that, because of the three-month broadcasting gap - but the lack of any episodes in between might be very noticeable when watching the whole run on DVD.

The criticisms and suggestions Knightbeat posted earlier are valid, particularly the ineptness of the Justice Vehicle's human crew. But my biggest quibble with the episode was probably the fact that no guards/SS/police seemed to react to all the noisy happenings like Hitler's office window getting smashed and a mob of people fleeing half-naked from a restaurant...

The music in the montage showing Amy and Mels going through school felt very reminiscent of something, but I'm not quite sure what... the White Stripes' "We're Going to Be Friends" being used on the opening credits of Napoleon Dynamite, maybe?

Also, I think Hexx mentioned it a while ago, but The Guardian said

"they are back. Even though he [Moffat] said they wouldn't be."

According to the Justice Vehicle crew's computers, someone had reported the TARDIS as stolen. So could "they" be the Time Lords?

Unless "they" are the Daleks. Again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that sequence with the guns was very well done, actually...

As for Melody, from our point of view, we've seen her as a baby, get kidnapped, get put into the suit,

shoot the 900-years older Doctor

, escape from the suit and get stranded in New York, regenerate, turn up as Amy and Rory's friend Mels, grow up with them, avoid the wedding, steal a car and meet the Doctor in the cornfield, kidnap him at gunpoint to go and kill Hitler, regenerate into River's form but still be psycopathic*, kiss the Doctor with the Judas Tree venom to kill him, steal the motorbike, steal the clothes, sacrifice her regeneration energy to save the Doctor... and then sign up for the archaelogical mission to The Library where we first met her. Neat package. And sacrificing her future regenerations for the Doctor's sake is part of what turns her into the River we know and love from earlier episodes (although from her point of view they are in the future).

*At least some of her behaviour is down to regeneration instability, some of it down to her training as a weapon to kill the Doctor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we really know that it's River in that suit at Lake Silencio, though?

It seems too obvious for that to be what's going on.

It can't be the girl in the suit. As if she's already 'killed' the Doctor, why then try to kill him again?

Going back to Who's misfiring spin-off show for a sec...

I'm calling it: this series of Torchwood is really disappointing. It's like a series of first drafts that needed major, major character/plot work done to them, and it has all of RTD's little storytelling flaws that started adding up over his run of Doctor Who, writ large on a flashing neon billboard saying THIS IS SHIT.

I'm still watching it. :(

But thank God there are only 2 episodes to go (US pace). I think this show's done, to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It can't be the girl in the suit. As if she's already 'killed' the Doctor, why then try to kill him again?

Because he's clearly still not dead? If you're programmed to kill someone, I think it just kicks in when you see them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I actually enjoyed this episode. I think the plot has simply gone too far wraping around itself, like a snake eating its own tail or something. The whole Mels thing made no sense as far as I could see. I'm getting quite fed up of the shows opening with some scattershot editing and crazy stuff happening as well. I don't know. It just felt like it tried to cram too much into 45 minutes and never really slowed down to let the audience breathe. Whilst I am enjoying the Moffat run, the best of these two series has still been the Van Gogh one, an episode which allowed the characters to come to the fore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A giant robot filled with tiny men and floating sieves covered in tinfoil?

This is what Dr Who used to be like in the dim and distant past. Dr Who is showing it's roots, which I think is cool but will be a challenge for anyone who's only ever experienced David Tennant or Matt Smith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and then sign up for the archaelogical mission to The Library where we first met her. Neat package.

We didn't see that. We saw a River becoming a student of archaeology. At some point after that she becomes Doctor Song and at some unknown point after that she becomes Professor Song. *Then* we get the trip to the library and her "death".

But yeah. It wraps up enough of her backstory that we can focus on the remaining mystery of Lake Silenceo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was very disappointed with it. The River Song story (arc?) has gotten increasingly tedious and the character remains very unlikeable, in my opinion.

I had a really high hopes for this series but, more than ever, am missing Dr Who being about small contained stories. I think that Moffat et al. believe the story of River Song to be far more interesting than it actually is. Amy seems to have little to do, Rory is still annoying, someone major 'dying' in every episode is boring, and Hitler was wasted!

I really hope that this will all get tied up and that Amy and Rory will be off at the end of the series!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next episode is small and self contained. Here's a spoiler free preview from SFX that I shall of course put within spoiler tags

1 It’s 99.9% arc plot free

2 It’s a small-scale, intimate, claustrophobic episode. The main stars are the shadows

3 It’s a very simple tale. Perhaps too simple for some tastes. There’s little in the actual plot that hasn’t been done in telefantasy before a number of times before

4 On the other hand it’s rich in atmosphere, and the monsters are freaky

5 It has the best use of sound design in the show since “Midnight”

6 The direction and lighting make even the most mundane settings look eerie and otherworldly

7 The Doctor does something he hasn’t done in a while

8 There’s a twin dilemma

9 Amy’s hair makes her easy to spot

10 If you listen carefully to the soundtrack, you’ll discover that the episode isn’t quite as contemporary as it may seem (though this could just be the production team hoping we’re not sad enough to Google these things)

11 Somebody doesn’t want to be Sherpa Tenzing

12 “Maybe it was junk mail?’

13 The Doctor has a post-modern rebuttal for his real world critics

14 Daniel Mays is excellent – he forms a very watchable partnership with Matt Smith and delivers one of the best, “Eh!?”s in the show’s history

15 The biscuit agenda is back!

16 Somebody gets floored

17 There’s a genuinely creepy transformation

18 Somebody can’t plump for Brian like he normally does

19 The show does something it was criticised for back in 1964… and does it big time

20 Listen carefully at the end

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next year is apparently going to be much more story-of-the-week, Moffat deciding they'd gone enough in the big-arc direction for now.

I thought the casual dispensing with of Hitler was brilliant. Rory's 'Shut up Hitler!' may have been the line of the series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of Torchwood:

Did anyone else assume Jack's kiss was the reason for Angelo's death? I was just hugely confused by that and the whole floor thing. Was there any indication before that Jack guessed there was something under there?

I totally agree the whole thing feels like someone's messy first draft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of Torchwood:

Did anyone else assume Jack's kiss was the reason for Angelo's death? I was just hugely confused by that and the whole floor thing. Was there any indication before that Jack guessed there was something under there?

I totally agree the whole thing feels like someone's messy first draft.

I assumed it was the kiss before the whole floor thing happened. The floor thing doesn't even make sense, really. Why did he happen to die at that exact moment? Because he had 'reconciled' (while in a coma!) with Jack? Hmmmm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assumed it was the kiss before the whole floor thing happened. The floor thing doesn't even make sense, really. Why did he happen to die at that exact moment? Because he had 'reconciled' (while in a coma!) with Jack? Hmmmm.

Yeah, and really, what was the point in going to the house in the first place?

"I can take you to the one person who can lie on a bed in a coma while I explain to you how the Miracle began."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, and really, what was the point in going to the house in the first place?

"I can take you to the one person who can lie on a bed in a coma while I explain to you how the Miracle began."

And I'll take Gwen's family hostage rather than just asking you.

Just ludicrous. LUDICROUS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It can't be the girl in the suit. As if she's already 'killed' the Doctor, why then try to kill him again?

Going back to Who's misfiring spin-off show for a sec...

I'm calling it: this series of Torchwood is really disappointing. It's like a series of first drafts that needed major, major character/plot work done to them, and it has all of RTD's little storytelling flaws that started adding up over his run of Doctor Who, writ large on a flashing neon billboard saying THIS IS SHIT.

I'm still watching it. :(

But thank God there are only 2 episodes to go (US pace). I think this show's done, to be honest.

Yeah, hopefully he can leave it alone now. But he has had the chance before and decided to shoe horn in another chapter in Jack's life. I feel sorry for him really, he's a very good writer really, but he can't write Sci-Fi or long convoluted plots for shit. His emotional stuff is really good, I just think he needs to leave Doctor Who and all it's familiars behind and move on.

A giant robot filled with tiny men and floating sieves covered in tinfoil?

This is what Dr Who used to be like in the dim and distant past. Dr Who is showing it's roots, which I think is cool but will be a challenge for anyone who's only ever experienced David Tennant or Matt Smith.

Yeah, I loved it for that. Because of it the girlfriend was really quite creeped out by them. Even the direction when the lady went up in the lift and her permission tag wasn't working and the antibody was off screen was classic Who.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still *think* the actress playing River is fucking shoddy and now there's no chance of her regenerating into a better actress. She belongs in panto!

Yeah, she's awful. And she can't fake a laugh at all, it's bizarre. She literally says "ha ha ha".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.